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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
USB drive... borked?
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1520

PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov 2017, 18:30    Post subject:  

fiskrond wrote:
I've done that...

Whole drive wiped & msdos table installed
Formatted to Fat32.. no joy
Wiped again, msdos table installed
Formatted to NTFS... no joy

Am installing WINE to see if I can get 'BootIt' (Windows prog) to run.... has option to 'bit flip' on it...

Unless of course there is a native Linux prog that can do this..?

Is it possible that I have done something irreversible to the USB stick?



Hi Fiskrond,

Is it possible you could try something for me, in the exact order and exact way I say it? And forget every thing you've done up to this point and think that you might be repeating?

I) Take the USB drive. USB drives usually use a 4096 (not 1MB) byte sector, and if they are older USB, you can use 512 byte block to be safe. Anyhow, I want you to boot up a functioning Puppy OS, no matter if it is 'frugal' installed or if you full installed it.

II) After it has booted, first thing I want you to do is stick the USB in, don't mount it, and then type in an opened root terminal:

A) dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd#1 bs=446 count=1

(this should take a couple of secs, we are going after the MBR on what I assume is your only and first partition on this drive)

B) next, run this: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd# bs=4096

(don't ask, because, yes, this step should normally obviate the need for A) above. Just do it.


III) after all this is complete....I want you to unplug the USB, and restart the Puppy OS. Then, when it is back to the desktop, start Gparted (this is important) before you plug the USB back in. When the USB is plugged back in (with Gparted running), hit "Refresh" on Gparted.

IV) Use Gparted to set up Msdos.

V) Next.....unplug the USB...DO NOT format it in Gparted and/or the Puppy OS.

VI) Start your Windows OS up.

VII) Go into Disks, click on the drive, and tell Windows to format it to Fat32 or NTFS.

VIII) When it is finished, DO NOT try to access it on Windows. Unplug it.

IX) Go back to your Puppy OS. Boot it up.

X) Plug in the USB......and tell me if, through whatever File Manager the Puppy OS is using, if you can both see the USB, if it is accessible and if you can transfer any simple file onto the USB and delete it back off.

XI) If you can, then your problem is you are not understanding how to set it up in Windows, which we will deal with later.


So, first, give all the above a whirl and report back. Remember, toss aside what you think you know about USBs overall and what you've done so far.


P.S. You might have physically damaged your USB stick, and yes, it might have failed. But nowadays, it takes a mighty thud and/or serious screwup to damage a USB drive (unless the drive you purchased is a known faulty USB drive). Don't get yourself thinking you somehow "flipped a bit" by running something like FreeBSD and/or running live boots off of it Confused
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Thu 30 Nov 2017, 22:59    Post subject:  

belham2 wrote:
fiskrond wrote:
I've done that...

Whole drive wiped & msdos table installed
Formatted to Fat32.. no joy
Wiped again, msdos table installed
Formatted to NTFS... no joy

Am installing WINE to see if I can get 'BootIt' (Windows prog) to run.... has option to 'bit flip' on it...

Unless of course there is a native Linux prog that can do this..?

Is it possible that I have done something irreversible to the USB stick?



Hi Fiskrond,

Is it possible you could try something for me, in the exact order and exact way I say it? And forget every thing you've done up to this point and think that you might be repeating? (sounds good to me! lol)

I) Take the USB drive. USB drives usually use a 4096 (not 1MB) byte sector, and if they are older USB, you can use 512 byte block to be safe. Anyhow, I want you to boot up a functioning Puppy OS, no matter if it is 'frugal' installed or if you full installed it.

II) After it has booted, first thing I want you to do is stick the USB in, don't mount it, and then type in an opened root terminal:

A) dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd#1 bs=446 count=1

(this should take a couple of secs, we are going after the MBR on what I assume is your only and first partition on this drive)
returns the following:
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
446 bytes (446 B) copied, 0.000641143 s, 696 kB/s


B) next, run this: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sd# bs=4096
returns:
dd: error writing '/dev/sd#': No space left on device
46957+0 records in
46956+0 records out
192331776 bytes (192 MB) copied, 0.678743 s, 283 MB/s


(don't ask, because, yes, this step should normally obviate the need for A) above. Just do it. I wouldn't dare even ask.. and if I did I wouldn't understand the answer.. lol


III) after all this is complete....I want you to unplug the USB, and restart the Puppy OS. Then, when it is back to the desktop, start Gparted (this is important) before you plug the USB back in. When the USB is plugged back in (with Gparted running), hit "Refresh" on Gparted.

IV) Use Gparted to set up Msdos.

V) Next.....unplug the USB...DO NOT format it in Gparted and/or the Puppy OS.

VI) Start your Windows OS up.

VII) Go into Disks, click on the drive, and tell Windows to format it to Fat32 or NTFS.
It's not there... :-/
This is what I don't understand... works fine in Puppy, used to work fine in Windows until few days ago when I used it to re-start my migration to Linux. Only presence now showing in Windows is in Device Manager.. but in the wrong category.. is showing under 'Disk Drives' whereas it should be under 'Portable Devices'.
It no longer shows anywhere else.. not in Explorer, not in Disk Manager.. nowhere!

Have I found a way to break things that surpasses the incredible capacity of a toddler to break anything known to mankind? Confused


VIII) When it is finished, DO NOT try to access it on Windows. Unplug it.

IX) Go back to your Puppy OS. Boot it up.

X) Plug in the USB......and tell me if, through whatever File Manager the Puppy OS is using, if you can both see the USB, if it is accessible and if you can transfer any simple file onto the USB and delete it back off.

XI) If you can, then your problem is you are not understanding how to set it up in Windows, which we will deal with later.


So, first, give all the above a whirl and report back. Remember, toss aside what you think you know about USBs overall and what you've done so far.


P.S. You might have physically damaged your USB stick, and yes, it might have failed. But nowadays, it takes a mighty thud and/or serious screwup to damage a USB drive (unless the drive you purchased is a known faulty USB drive). Don't get yourself thinking you somehow "flipped a bit" by running something like FreeBSD and/or running live boots off of it Confused
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 10606
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 05:54    Post subject:  

This may help you.
https://www.easeus.com/resource/usb-not-showing-up-in-windows-10-8-7.html

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1520

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 07:26    Post subject:  

fiskrond wrote:


VII) Go into Disks, click on the drive, and tell Windows to format it to Fat32 or NTFS.
[color=blue]It's not there... :-/
This is what I don't understand... works fine in Puppy, used to work fine in Windows until few days ago when I used it to re-start my migration to Linux. Only presence now showing in Windows is in Device Manager.. but in the wrong category.. is showing under 'Disk Drives' whereas it should be under 'Portable Devices'.
It no longer shows anywhere else.. not in Explorer, not in Disk Manager.. nowhere!



Ok, you're telling me, if I understand correctly, that the USB works fine & dandy (whatever you do) in Puppy but that the moment you plug it in to Windows, it is non-functional and not recognized by Windows except that is shows in "Device Manager" only? And this would be true even if you HAD formatted the device to Fat 16/32 or NTFS while it was still in Gparted (which we didn't do for this test)??

Can I ask, if you do format it to Fat 16, try, then try FAt 32, try, then try NTFS (all done in Puppy), the USB in each case still only shows in "Device Manager" only? And for each format try, you left the device plugged into Windows and rebooted???

Also, in Device Manager, is a yellow exclamation beside the listed USB in each format attempt?
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3111
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 08:09    Post subject:  

It may be that Windows is remembering the drive.
You should go into Device Manager and expand the list of USB devices (including none attached ones) and delete the entiries so that they will be refreshed the next time the device is plugged in.

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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 13:26    Post subject:    

belham2 wrote:
fiskrond wrote:


VII) Go into Disks, click on the drive, and tell Windows to format it to Fat32 or NTFS.
[color=blue]It's not there... :-/
This is what I don't understand... works fine in Puppy, used to work fine in Windows until few days ago when I used it to re-start my migration to Linux. Only presence now showing in Windows is in Device Manager.. but in the wrong category.. is showing under 'Disk Drives' whereas it should be under 'Portable Devices'.
It no longer shows anywhere else.. not in Explorer, not in Disk Manager.. nowhere!



Ok, you're telling me, if I understand correctly, that the USB works fine & dandy (whatever you do) in Puppy but that the moment you plug it in to Windows, it is non-functional and not recognized by Windows except that is shows in "Device Manager" only? And this would be true even if you HAD formatted the device to Fat 16/32 or NTFS while it was still in Gparted (which we didn't do for this test)??

Can I ask, if you do format it to Fat 16, try, then try FAt 32, try, then try NTFS (all done in Puppy), the USB in each case still only shows in "Device Manager" only? And for each format try, you left the device plugged into Windows and rebooted???

Also, in Device Manager, is a yellow exclamation beside the listed USB in each format attempt?


Whoop!
As you said.. we didn't format it in Gparted.. so, as advised above>
Formatted to FAT16 using Gparted
Insert USB to Windows PC
Still only showing in Device Manager
>Properties "No driver installed"
>Update driver
>"Best driver already installed"
>Properties "No driver installed"... ???wtf
>Properties > Uninstall device
>Scan for hardware changes. Yellow! flashed briefly in Portable Storage and disappeared.

USB stick now showing in all Windows places as expected & working fine!
(I had tried the Properties>Update>Uninstall method previously to no avail!)


That was some serious voodoo you pulled out of the bag there fella! Much kudos indeed!

Maybe a sticky.. I can't be the only person who has mangled a USB... then again.. lol

Advanced lesson in USB recovery!

THANK YOU doesn't quite cover it... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Last edited by fiskrond on Fri 01 Dec 2017, 13:30; edited 2 times in total
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 13:28    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
This may help you.
https://www.easeus.com/resource/usb-not-showing-up-in-windows-10-8-7.html


Thanks for the tip.. already tried that one and several others... none of them recognised the drive.. baffled

Sorted now though.. Smile
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 13:42    Post subject:  

@belham2

Have you any insight into why the USB went awol?

Never had this happen before and am reasonably clued up on building/repairing PCs and using Windows..

The only other info that I can give is that at one point (very early on.. just after the FreeBSD episode) upon inserting the USB the PC would instantly BSOD with a 0x7 unrecognised hardware/driver error.
This stopped happening after a clean re-install of Win7, however, took USB to a more knowledgeable mate and it BSOD'd his PC immediately with same error... we did not pursue the matter any further!
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1520

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 15:41    Post subject:  

fiskrond wrote:
@belham2

Have you any insight into why the USB went awol?

Never had this happen before and am reasonably clued up on building/repairing PCs and using Windows..

The only other info that I can give is that at one point (very early on.. just after the FreeBSD episode) upon inserting the USB the PC would instantly BSOD with a 0x7 unrecognised hardware/driver error.
This stopped happening after a clean re-install of Win7, however, took USB to a more knowledgeable mate and it BSOD'd his PC immediately with same error... we did not pursue the matter any further!


Hi fiskrond,

I'll feel better if the USB works and last for a few weeks. Wink

But also know this is mainly (but not all) a Windows OS thing----Windows has always been notorious for up & deciding that a USB which previously worked, that was easily recognized, is suddenly a non-entity. The steps Widnows goes through to recognize and mount a USB are clumsy, and suffice it to say, actually quite sh!tty. A coding juvenile could have written better code for this than for what still exists even in Windows 10 today. But more important, I'm hoping that there isn't a problem---based on what you've been seeing---at the connection where the flash-circuit board connects to the USB connector (which gets plugged into your USB slot). That's what I am really worried about. But what confuses me is Linux/Puppies complete blithe nature in not seeing anything and it always working when you plugged it into a Puppy.

So before any thank you(s), use the USB regular and good, and if it still is cranking after a week or two, report back. Honestly, over the past 30 years, if I had a dollar for every time I fought with Windows (from 1 up through 95/98/XP) regarding thumbdrives and also hard drives, we could both enjoy a few cases of Germany's finest brews for free.
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Fri 01 Dec 2017, 16:34    Post subject:  

will do...

b(^_^)


*also thanks and respect to ALL who have contributed to this even if I haven't acknowledged your posts individually.. all advice was taken onboard.. Smile
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fiskrond

Joined: 13 Aug 2017
Posts: 29
Location: Wales (UK)

PostPosted: Wed 20 Dec 2017, 22:10    Post subject:  USB drive... FIXED!!  

@belham2

the USB drive in question has had a bit of a thrashing over the last few weeks..

delighted to say that it is working fine!

*Whatever that bit of code did (am not a programmer) certainly did the job!

Have seen comments on YouTube where people have experienced similar issues after attempting to install various Linux versions via USB... and similarly finding USB drive to be non-responsive as a result.

Maybe this thread could be thoroughly re-edited and your solution added as a 'Tech Tip'?

Many many thanks.. b(^_^)

*I don't know how to mark as resolved
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1520

PostPosted: Thu 21 Dec 2017, 07:44    Post subject: Re: USB drive... FIXED!!  

fiskrond wrote:
@belham2

the USB drive in question has had a bit of a thrashing over the last few weeks..

delighted to say that it is working fine!

*Whatever that bit of code did (am not a programmer) certainly did the job!

Have seen comments on YouTube where people have experienced similar issues after attempting to install various Linux versions via USB... and similarly finding USB drive to be non-responsive as a result.

Maybe this thread could be thoroughly re-edited and your solution added as a 'Tech Tip'?

Many many thanks.. b(^_^)

*I don't know how to mark as resolved



Hi fiskrond,

Glad to hear! Cool And keeping my fingers crossed Wink
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5055
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Fri 22 Dec 2017, 14:32    Post subject: Re: USB drive... FIXED!!  

fiskrond wrote:
*I don't know how to mark as resolved
All you need to do is to click "edit" on your first post and you should be able to change
Code:
"USB drive... borked?"

to
Code:
"USB drive... borked?  [SOLVED]"


(The title and subtitle are separate)

@Belham - can you explain what was the critical action here - my brain got tangled in the reading and I'm not clear what kicked Windows into reassessing the drive?
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