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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Puppy T290
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1230
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct 2016, 18:13    Post subject:  Puppy T290
Subject description: racy55 updated and building blocks
 

I'm building a new set of T2 packages to T2's revision 45017 at present. It won't have everything in, but should be suitable to attempt to build Quirky (I hope) as well as an updated racy55 (both 32bit and 64bit versions), but with later packages. But it's up to you to build and fix the quirky with barry's woofq, i'm only promising the racy55 equivalents as it's (with a few updates) is what i use on a daily basis and what I will call PuppyT290 (either Puppy T29032 for 32bit and Puppy T29064 for 64bit). It's up to you what you do with them afterwards.

I also intend to "puppyfy' the compoled files to .pet packages as I want to go back a little bit and attempt to go back to something simple like puppy 3.01 or even earlier but with updated packages before I start to build a waylandx puppy in the new year. Having played with rbos's wayland for a while now, I do think it will be the way those that build and use graphically drawn packages will go, and it's not exactly slow with the rest either.

I will upload both sets to my .net website when ready and feed this thread with url's, the associated Packages-puppy-* and the woof-distro files for builders.

previous ref was under Puppy myz2.

I shall only update this as there is something actually happening for release so there may be gaps.

UPDATE: A Wayland Puppy is on hold for now for obvious reasons, but as Wayland is still having multiple process work issues I don't intend building it at this stage. I will most likely be shot down by them but I consider a lot of it beta still. However for those wanting a graphical based system it will best everything else available today(, even at this stage).

EDIT: For those who haven't followed my posting system before, I try to keep everything related to a problem or topic in a single post message unless time has traveled on, so you do ned to reskim posts ocassionally to follow what's up. I know it can cause some trouble for the reader, but it's just the way my brain files things so your stuck with it i'm afraid. I do however also try to remember to give an update summary every so often to save a multipage troll..

EDIT2: June 15: We are up to near the end of Building Cycle12. This should almost conclude the basic packagelist (not many of the user apps except for those used for initial testing), about a dozen packages to go! Cycles' 13 and 14 will (if possible) have something that woof builds and runs, Cycle 15 is a fix stage and then 16 to 20 will be for most of the user apps to make their first appearance.

EDIT3: June17: And now were down to 5 problem packages with cycle12 and as three of them are relying in the package source groups to fix or advise on workarounds I may just close the cycle a week earlier (than the end of the month), rolling those left unfixed into the next cycle to sort out. Cycles 13 and 14 are 2 weeks each on my plan, so as to allow the first alpha woof build to occur near the end of July. I'm busy elsewhere for the first two weeks in August and just won't have time or energy to concentrate on anything else. This would give me an extra week for cycle 13 which I want as I have already 'slipped' a few more packages into 13 from earlier ones than I had allowed for.

I may put out the first Beta for some basic testing (machine and simple stuff) at the end of Stage15 (about the end of August) to give you an idea of what's likely to run and what's likely to have to be dropped because of age or in a couple of cases won't build in 64bit but do happily in 16/32bit as well as getting some (a lot of) feedback on what it works on / or not.

EDIT4: July5: Cycle 12 has now been completed with one additional package moved to cycle 13. Now to start the hard stuff (all fixes). Moved end date out a week as found there are now 39 packages to sort out/replace/whatever. Cycle14 has things like seamonkey/firefox/abiword/gnumeric/planner/etc. in so should be quick as i've built them previously. A week 'should' do, although I may leave them until after the first beta if problems arise.

EDIT5: July20: Cycle 14 has started with only two cycle13 packages dropped due to unabletofix problems and three moved out to this cycle while I try and work out what missing dependancy is needed. I shall most likely try to use BarryK's April packages for now for those that don't build as i'd like to complete Cycle14 by the end of the month. On the other hand my August 'dissapearance' has been delayed by nearly two weeks to the middle of the month so I will be able to start the WOOF Alpha's setting up, building and start testing earlier than planned. Therefore I will be able to take away one of my puppy laptops with it loaded to work through the build and list problems to work on when I return.

EDIT6: July 30: Cycle 14 will complete hopefully tonight. I have the T2 builder running like an angel, only four packages having to rerun it's stage4(, obviously needing some last thing to be tweeked in the package buildorder number to fix). I shall hopefully be starting my first Stage 15 Woof alpha build tuesday if the current (and last) T2 build completes sucessfully as expected. I want to play with Xerux for a day ir so to give my mind a switch of topic and revive.

There's a request of help with Java below, please, because GCC7 contains the demise / dropping of Java by the GCC.

Last edited by scsijon on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 02:57; edited 16 times in total
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 11190
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct 2016, 21:54    Post subject:  

I'm ready to try it out, Looking forward to it actually Smile, If the devX is working well, I'll try to compile some apps on it. even if you just get a working min base I could lend a hand if you like.
ttuuxxx

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sszindian


Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 725
Location: Pennsylvania U.S.

PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct 2016, 09:55    Post subject: T2 'yes'  

scsijon:

This looks like a worthy project!!!

Funny, just this past week I was looking at the T2 website thinking how nice it would be if puppy could have this as its main base... puppy should have its own really!!! and if the base puppy could be maintained and have nothing but a few basics in it and then... '.SFS's FOR ALL THE APPLICATIONS' think of how simplified that would be for everyone... Hmmm is that not how CoreOS and its Containers work?

Good luck with the project!

>>>---Indian------>

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Volhout

Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct 2016, 16:08    Post subject: good idea  

Iḿ not much of a coder, but would love to test.
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 1421
Location: The other Mr. 305

PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct 2016, 19:43    Post subject:  

I'm on board, as well. Let me know how I can help...

Slavvo67
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1230
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Tue 23 May 2017, 06:25    Post subject:  

Just a (short?) note that i'm finally creating woof useable T2 packages (mostly).

I should be moving to building with puppy Woof (BarryK's) soon(, no i'm not going to mozz myself by giving a date).

Part of the problem is that a lot of updated packages now have extra deps since Racy 5.5 was built, and sorting them out and getting them working has been a struggle, some were not even in T2's latest packageset. Rene (T2's maintainer) will be getting a BIG Subversion feedback fileset. (They use subversion instead of git, I prefer git!) I suspect I shall have a lot of questions come back from him, but i've added a lot of notes to everything so it should be ok, and i'm on my second T290 work-book if he needs extra information.

A workbook is something anyone building should maintain as memory can fade or change over even a short time!

I was seriously considering dumping T2 at one point and going back to LFS/BLFS (and all the problems that would cause)! But i'm finally now happy with the progress rate.

The intent is to build a 'Standard' Racy6 first and release it for wider testing as an ALPHA, but with everything in one (devx, nls (some at least as i've been asked for at least russian, japanese, chinese, egyptian, and south korean), etc included).

Only then, when most of the basic problems are sorted, i'll T290 the packageset and add and remove what I need to do, such as qt5 and it's desktop as well as leaving jwm available, and the manga/anime packages.
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Thu 25 May 2017, 08:12    Post subject:  great project!  

This is great!
I always considered wary/racy to be the last true puppies.

Please let us know how to help.
It must be huge to compile all the packages in T2. (I have no real idea Wink )
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Fri 26 May 2017, 15:12    Post subject: woof or woofCE  

scsijon, do I understand correctly that after building packages in T2, you will move to woof and not to woofCE?
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1230
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Sat 27 May 2017, 05:28    Post subject: Re: woof or woofCE  

foxpup wrote:
scsijon, do I understand correctly that after building packages in T2, you will move to woof and not to woofCE?


Yes this is correct, I have the origonal woof that racy55 was built with in BarryK's woof and the work he did includes the basics for racy6. I don't consider I need to do much to recreate racy55 with updated packages other than fix a few bugs found and corrected since.

I have both the x86 and x86-64 builds and parts that need to be 32/64 bit specific specific already available.

I did look at woof-ce some time ago (and the legacy line) but I don't want to change what I consider works and I am use to building with, and more importantly using, including all it's foibles. I just want to update racy55 to a modern packageset.

I am building at present for x86-64, but DO intend to also build a racy6 for those still using a x86 box.

Output will be as a iso package to burn a cd?dvd disc, with ALL on it in one though, not a set split into base, devx, nls and doc. It's will be as a intermediate design step towards my Puppy T290. It should be installable from that for those that want to do it as either Full or Frugal.
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 192
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Mon 29 May 2017, 14:05    Post subject:  

Thanks for the info, scsijon.
I do not know if it will happen, but I am considering trying to build. So when I read about your plans, I thought it a good start to join in after the T2 stage.

I will certainly join in with testing racy6. I have 2 64bit machines. My 32bit machine is too old for racy, wary is good for it.

I've done some reading about your myz and T290. Where do the names come from?
Btw, did you read this? (2 days old)
http://barryk.org/news/?viewDetailed=00554
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1230
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Mon 29 May 2017, 19:16    Post subject:  

thanks foxpup,

I will be calling out for testers when the first releasable testing beta is available.

And as far as names are concerned, myz comes from one of my godchildren's daughter's nickname (minimal young z..... before she started shooting up in her late teans), and T290 is from T2 (the source) version 9.0. I didn't want to intrude on BarryK and use his names as I and others would consider that to be a fraudulant action.

And yes I know of BarryK's blog note, I keep an eye on his blog anyway as i'm always interested in what he's up too, and he let me know he was doing it anyway.

And for all,

I've had so many problems with gcc Version 6 (6.3.0) that i'm testing building with both gcc7 (7.1.0) and gcc5 (5.4.0). I suspect it's because a number of packages we use are old (<2010) even in the latest releases and I may have to use gcc5, but I don't consider that a hastle as I could even go back to gcc 4.9.2 which I (at least) consider the last unbroken version and what my last version of myz2 was built on.

regards to all

EDIT1: i've started a T2 build with gcc 5.4.0 and after a fix disabling something we don't use it's happily building away, and most pleasing a lot of the package Warning Messages I was getting with gcc 6.3.0 are NOT appearing.... Happy Days,

I shall leave it build for a day and assemble my 'new' build box, the first i've had with ddr3 memory in it and will set it up as a duplicate of my old build box and then try it with gcc 7.1.0 and see what happens.

I had been / was warned about gcc6, but hadn't thought it would have that many variations and problems still in system after reaching Version 6.3.0. It may be that we build with gcc5 on purpose (at least for the first few beta's) to better handle the older packages that have not been updated for some time.

EDIT2: No, there are a lot of package regressions to do to go back to gcc5, so i've gone forward to gcc 7.1.0. The only two things i've had to do is disable patches for the java components / modify the conf file since gcc 7.1.0 doesn't have java in it (it's apparently an external package now); and update diffutils 3.5 to 3.6 (a lot of fixes aparently). gcc 7.1.0 also has a piledriver list of changes and revisions leftover from the gcc6 packages so anyone upgrading I sugest jumps over gcc6 unless you have plenty of unneeded bugfix time as you'll have to step back when you go to gcc7.
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1230
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jun 2017, 01:05    Post subject: Geany updating  

wary/racy55 had 0.19.1, 1.30.1 is now available.

Please see http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=956484#956484 for details
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1230
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Sat 03 Jun 2017, 01:12    Post subject: New/replacing packages  

I've added a few needed due to the changes in prerequisites, replaced others due to systemd (not against it totally but it's just not in my t290 scope), and updated many others.

I'll add replacements here as I remember too in case the information is of interest to others.


- eudev (1.2.2) - replaces udev as udev has become part of systemd.
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1230
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun 2017, 09:02    Post subject: GCC7 (7.1) caused Problem! Java needed!  

I'm opening this one up because of GCC.

From the start of GCC7 (currently 7.1) GCC has no java components in it!

Nothing to build with.

Nothing to even help with the pre- or post build stages quite a few apps are using it for.

It means that we can expect (I suspect) a pretheler of complaints from apps that will no longer build or run by default without a JRE or JDK installed as their dependancy. And from a little bit of 'light' reading it's not that easy to do so without installing an earlier version' bin first and building yours from that, etc.

Would someone like to take on the challange (please), I know we have some Java-smart people out there. I just don't have enough Java knowledge or time while i'm working my way through the T290 problems. I'd like for preferance a OpenJDK V8 or maybe JamVM with the OpenJDK Class Libraries can get it to work, all in a X86-64 style pet if possible.

Many thanks
scsijon
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1230
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Wed 21 Jun 2017, 05:02    Post subject: Packages that !won't be in T290  

Well this threadpoint is for Packages that were in Wary/Racy55 but won't be in T290 (at least to start with). There may be names of others that have alternates worth replacing them if I have them.

1- Mplayer
Besides the large number of prerequisites (and i've worked through them all). I've just found that it and a couple of major prerequisites need java to build (not only run) and gcc's internal Java at that! Failing with non-relevant error messages too. It's Not happening! I shall replace it with Xine, much more user friendly.

2- Ogle
Compiles against a set versions of deps. Removed fro now but as i like it I may just add it back in as pet's and not T2'd.

3-
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