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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
is there 64bit uefi puppy that works????
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boof

Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 402

PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017, 22:23    Post subject:  is there 64bit uefi puppy that works????  

HP 15 G250 Celeron r3050 powered laptop, bios date 2015
Tested:
slacko32-6.3.2;slacko32-6.3.0.6; slacko64-6.3.0; slacko64-6.9.6.x, Tahr64-6.0.5. couldn't get slacko-700 [permissions prob]

Nothing I've tried will do a full install and work correctly-either keys don't work or video is bad or no internet modules accessable for loading. Am I just too early with a new machine, or is something wrong? I can get frugal installs to work easily in legacy mode, but I want a full install in uefi.
the 32bit uefi's will only work as frugal installs too. They tend to have better key functions, but are still quite limited. I realize you're volunteers, and re-writing code isn't easy, but I like puppy, and don't want to use something else while I wait. I lack the necessary ability to learn another programming system again. I find older versions of puppy are difficult to use on the web with unsupported programs.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 9373
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 04:34    Post subject:  

Have you tried it with secure boot disabled?

You are putting Linux on the computer. Secure boot is a Windows thing. Not needed for Linux.

This could be the problem.
Quote:
while PC manufacturers have to include Microsoft’s main “Microsoft Windows Production PCA” key so Windows can boot, they don’t have to include the “Microsoft Corporation UEFI CA” key. This second key is only recommended. It’s the second, optional key that Microsoft uses to sign Linux boot loaders.
In other words, not all PCs will necessarily boot signed Linux distributions with Secure Boot turned on.


These Puppies may work better for you.
Xenialpup 7.0.8.1 (32bit)
Xenialpup64 7.0.8.5 (64bit)
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/test/xenialpup/

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15235
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 05:58    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Have you tried it with secure boot disabled?
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/test/xenialpup/


Thanks @bigpup. Cool
I had to learn the hard way.

I enabled UEFI. Added an admin password. Twice could not boot up Puppy. Went mad. Disabled UEFI.

The things I do to improve Puppy security, when I am the main liability . . . Rolling Eyes

... all better now ... Very Happy

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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2897
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 07:05    Post subject:  

It was NOT just Windows that pushed UEFI.
Red Hat were heavily involved as well.
If you look hard enough you will find, I think, a versioin of Puppy built to BOOT with UEFI.

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boof

Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 402

PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 08:24    Post subject:  

Secure boot IS disabled, I get tired of downloading multiple puppies to find none work as I desire. My quota is small, and I can't keep speculating on heresay. I've tried DebianDog-works only as frugal install, too incomprehensible to install on sda1. I will try xenialxxx64xxxxx as a last resort. This is just too fiddly and awkward. Thx NOT to them that created this crap. someone may have lost a customer over this, because it's just too difficult/expensive to sort out. NOT happy chappy!!!
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 09:37    Post subject:  

Hi boof,

Why did I start this thread? http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=858159#858159

Have you followed its link to http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=860159#860159: Puppies built to boot from UEFI computers?

Tried the Puppies and technique which Icake reported working?

Tried TedDog's "No Format Install"?

And why do you think a "Full Install" --created 6+ years ago as a work-around for computers having 256 Mbs of RAM or less-- should be used rather than the way Barry K designed it and devs have worked for years to perfect it?

I find that I can't drive as fast if I leave the hood of my car up to prevent overheating. Confused

mikesLr
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boof

Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 402

PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 19:33    Post subject:  

I'm sorry to be an ignorant pest, but I have an aversion to generating large savefiles over time. It is not based on understanding, other than the savefile will eventually fill the medium and slow the boot. I prefer full installs for permanent use. Perhaps that's not what puppy is for? I find it difficult, and often expensive/risky to obtain things on a suck it and see basis, without some more than reasonable assurance that it works properly as is, rather than is deliverer dependent. Naturpaths and chiropractors come to mind-results too often vary too greatly between practitioners to risk using them. If they have a bad day, they can do much damage. I don't have resources to experiment and find a "good" one, so I have no dealings with them and just put up with my problems. Vague promises and incomplete suggestions do not encourage me to experiment over a range of puppies. I want some surety that what I'm doing will work. I don't have resources to waste on failures. I hope this explains my thinking, which may not be correct?
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purple379

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 20:11    Post subject: Problem may be more than UEFI.  

Just in reply to your question. Look at Fat Dog.

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/fatdog

If it is too big for you, that is, has too many apps, then you can clip out the programs you do not like, and remaster your own version.

The builders reached into their own wallet to buy a UEFI -what is it, code.

However, if the computer you are tying to use with Linux is using Windows 10, then it might have a problem with the Hard drive never having been turned off, but placed in hibernation mode. M$, decided the computer would boot faster if the hard drive was placed in hibernation mode on power mode shut down.

How to tell a Windows 10 machine to shut down the hard drive is also problematic in that different manufacturers placed the shut down in different places. Usually it is in the "Power Features", "Power and Sleep" on the one I see right now. it ends up going into, "Control Panel>Hardware and Sound>Power Options>System Settings"

Then, as you know, the settings one sees in what we used to call BIOS, now UEFI were written to be used by someone who already knew what all the tabs meant.

You can use the Video Option to use the main processor to drive the display, then you can sort out finding the right video driver if you like to use Fat Dog 64 on the target computer.

If you were doing a frugal boot, you can still use the entire hard drive, not just the puppy save file. The advantage to using a save file, is that one can create a save file with all ones settings. Save a copy of it, then at any moment, reboot into a fresh copy of the OS, one you know has not been (recently) corrupted.

Also look into booting with a Flash Drive. Boots faster, no more problems with manufacturers who produce laptops with optical drives. Down side, some types of malware can write onto your copy of Puppy Linux if it is on the flash drive.

I know nothing about putting Fat Dog64 onto hard drive as the only OS.

Anyway, I like Fat Dog, and I salute the fellows who have kept it going.
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 1093
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017, 21:49    Post subject:  

So it seems the issue has nothing to do with UEFI, more so that your Puppies of choice aren't working how you want.

My opinion, based on experience, is that Frugal install is about 1000x better than full install. If you're new to Puppy, that logic seems backward, but trust me / us.

You say that video is bad. Have loaded video drivers to suit your machine?

Keys don't work. I assume you mean media keys. You may be able to live without that, but there is a program called sven to make those work.
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 897

PostPosted: Fri 21 Apr 2017, 00:00    Post subject:  

boof wrote:
I'm sorry to be an ignorant pest, but I have an aversion to generating large savefiles over time.
/snip


Then use a save folder instead of a save file. All the recent Puppies support that. That will get rid of any disadvantage that big savefiles cause.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 21 Apr 2017, 15:16    Post subject:  

Ditto what dancytron wrote. A saveFolder, introduced by Gyro a couple years ago, starts small but will expand, if needed, to the entire extent of the available space on its partition. The expansion is automatic as more stuff is saved. Never any need to resize so it provides the benefit of a Full install. But it also provides the benefits of a frugal install:
(1) The use of SFSes --loaded and unloaded on the fly-- conserving RAM and making trying a different web-browser or upgrading your current one "easy". Most applications change very slowly; the changes over several years involving nothing more than the addition of some "bell or whistle". Web-browsers, however, are in a constant state of change in order to keep up with the greater graphic content being offered by websites, to counter malware being spawned on the web, and to keep up with the changes being offered by other web-browsers. Sometimes "upgrades" present problems not present in a prior version. Those problems will eventually --after they've been reported-- be fixed by a new "upgrade" but in the meantime, if you "installed" the problem version you may not be able to revert to the older one. SFSes aren't installed. They are loaded and unloaded. So both the new and the old can simultaneously exist on your drive. If the new isn't satisfactory, you simply unload it, reload the old and wait to try out the next version.
(2) Less chance of your system being corrupted by something you inadvertently picked up while surfing the web, or by having a power surge or outage. A Full install constantly writes what's currently in RAM to Storage. A frugal install can be configured to only write to Storage when you choose. For all recent Puppies, see how to set that up on the last couple of pages on this thread: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=662326#662326. Having configured your Puppy to only write to Storage on demand, you'll probably want to have your applications write directly to Storage. See http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=929669#929669.

mikesLr
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ndujoe1

Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 772

PostPosted: Fri 21 Apr 2017, 19:27    Post subject:  

FATDOG 64 is able to handle the UEFI stuff
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boof

Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 402

PostPosted: Fri 21 Apr 2017, 20:13    Post subject:  

SukSauce!!! Xenial64 -7.x.xx seems to do very nicely, apart from libreoffice-which missed several files from the ~universe repo. it's not loading in any of its forms. Just a brief flash of the logo and that's it--no shared files missing, but others aren't there. Didn't make a list. Have a good CD-rw of it, so may revert to frugal install. next month, when
i have another quota to get my preferred programs--thunderbird/firefox/libreoffice/default package chooser.

I'm happy with it. Thanks.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 9373
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 22 Apr 2017, 08:41    Post subject:  

Did you get LibreOffice by using the Get LibreOffice program in menu->Document?
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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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purple379

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sat 22 Apr 2017, 15:09    Post subject: Doing a Full Install can turn out to be a bear of a problem  

Changing the entire hard drive to use Linux can turn into a project that has ins and outs one did not initially realize.

One of the goals of the Puppy design was to make things easier, not introduce new problems. To put Linux onto a hard drive can have difficulties, from deleting the previous partitions, putting a GRUB or some kind of boot onto the newly create disk partition.

Anyway, I don't choose to spend my time with details like that. I know some around this forum are experts in all kinds of things like that.

If I was trying to do that again, I would find a version of Ubuntu from the era of the computer that I was trying to work with. Let it do its automatic install, and try to learn from that. Likely to be much slower functioning than Puppy, but it is going to get the hard drive disk formatting, and boot partition set up properly without me having to do a lot of research reading.

Not to mention those who write documentation on how to create boot partitions have a terse writing style which expects one to be familiar with the subject before reading.

After having use Puppy for some time, I no longer see any reason to believe that booting from the hard drive has any advantages. It was just my belief when I first started using Puppy that an OS is supposed to boot from the hard drive. I was wrong. It is true, that booting from an optical drive can take longer than, say, Windows booting from the hard drive.
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