Fatdog64-710 Final [4 Dec 2016]

[L18L]

Thank you @step and @jamesbond for your welcome back messages.

momanager-2017.02.24-noarch-1.txz is successfully uploaded.

It is useable for English only devs now
you can use one TEXTDOMAIN for app and md doc
check the resulting pot file
avoid common mistakes like
e.g. having OK and Ok

@all
Nobody here who would like to add his language?
Just 2 TEXTDOMAINS:
fatdog for all the fatdog scripts
fatdoghelp for translation of fatdog's Help

Simply add fd64-nls_719.sfs to extrasfs parameter in boot code.
And install momanager-2017.02.24 using updated gslapt.

EDIT
Package attached as upload was not successful

EDIT
Attached package deleted as it was buggy
use package attached 2 posts downwards please

[jamesbond]

Original post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 714#938714

Hello all, I decided to try to improve the fatdog-battery-meter.sh script myself. It was a poor use of my time, but I know a little bit about the language now. Anyway, I added a rudimentary time left estimate which works on two different laptops so far.

dr. Dan, thank you for this. Apology for the very long delay. I've finally managed to review this.

Your changes are good, but I can't include it as is into Fatdog64 because it seems the changes you've done is very specific to your laptop - for one thing, in my laptop I don't have any variable "charge_now" which you use for estimating power drain (it's "energy_now" in my laptop). I'll see if I can improve it.

Compared with 702, my battery life seems diminished. I don't know whether it is from using Seamonkey, but it seems to use a lot of memory.

It's very difficult to asses, because 710 comes with newer kernel, newer graphics drivers, etc. Any of these could have impact on power usage. I would say that 710 is a bit bigger than 702 due to newer version of software, however it should not impact much. If you still can, run "htop" and to comparison between 702 and 710 when your system is idle. The difference should be minimal.

Thanks for letting me play the home version of Fatdog64, it's a lot of fun. I keep finding additional features!

You are very much welcome.

@L18L, I hope you're doing well. I was a bit worried to not to see you in the forum for a while. I'm going to take your latest momanager and push it to the official repo, thanks!

And yes, so far there are only German translations (from you) ... still waiting to see others

cheers!

[L18L]

I'm going to take your latest momanager and push it to the official repo, thanks!

Thanks

bugs everywhere
Must work in working directory WD

Code: Select all

CACHE=$WD/cache ;  mkdir -p $CACHE #130505
cd $WD #170224-2

Made it (cd $WD) as build number 2 (thanks Fatdog's Help files)

Made and used in Fatdog64 (and latest slacko64)
Not intended to run in arm architectures.

[jamesbond]

Thanks L18L!
Uploaded this to the official repo again, as build 2 too.

Made and used in Fatdog64 (and latest slacko64)
Not intended to run in arm architectures.

To effect that comment, I added this snippet at the very top:

Code: Select all

## jamesbond - check arch
case $(uname -m) in
	x86_64|i*86) ;; # good to go
	*) Xdialog --title "MoManager" --infobox "Unsupported architecture: $(uname -m)" 0 0 10000 
	   exit 1;;
esac

[jd7654]

Question about humongous initrd and base sfs file sizes:

Been running Fatdog64 700 series on hard drive frugal installs for a while. And I always split out the fd64.sfs from the humongous initrd due to the booting being so painfully slow on all the machines I tried it on. But I noticed something different about the resulting file sizes with 710 Final compared to earlier versions like 702 and 700.

After following the same procedure for each, using the included fatdog-split-initrd.sh script, this is the results for 710:
- humongous initrd: 344M
- split fd64.sfs: 438M, plus small initrd: 3.5M = 441M

Compare that to 702: (with 702 script)
- humongous initrd: 250M
- split fd64.sfs: 255M, plus small initrd: 3M = 258M

And other older versions were similar, with the split files total only being a few MB larger than the humongous initrd. But with 710, the split out base sfs is huge for some reason, almost 100M more total. Is there something different about 710 that would cause this?

If using the copy out and repack method for 710, result is:
- fd64.sfs: 285M, plus large initrd: 59M = 344M (same as humongous)

Everything seems to be working OK though. But not sure if something in the script is over duplicating or possibly corrupting some files in the split process?

Just my observations.

[jamesbond]

It's working as designed.

In 710 the default compression for splitted-out basesfs is "gzip". The resulting basesfs is bigger (about 150% - 200% larger) compard to xz compression used in older Fatdogs, but the actual splitting process is about 4x (that is, 400%) faster.

If small size is really what you're after, you can always run the splitter like this:

Code: Select all

BASESFS_COMPRESSION="-comp xz" fatdog-split-initrd.sh ...

Or for even smaller compression, use BASESFS_COMPRESSION="-comp xz -Xbcj x86". There are even ways to make it even smaller but it will affect run-time performance so it's not recommended.

[jd7654]

If small size is really what you're after, you can always run the splitter like this:

Code: Select all

BASESFS_COMPRESSION="-comp xz" fatdog-split-initrd.sh ...

OK, that works, thanks.

Did split on main system, Core i7:
- humongous initrd: 344M
- split fd64.sfs: 353M, plus small initrd: 3.5M = 357M
That looks more normal like previous 70x base sfs sizes.
- split time (xz): 90 sec
- split time (gz): 20 sec

The split time, which is only done once is not the main issue, the slow boot time improvement is worth it.

Test system, boot to desktop, frugal HD install, AMD Vision E-350: (BIOS)
- huge initrd: 200 s
- small initrd: 50 s

Also tried on newer system, frugal USB install, ATOM Bay Trail Z3740: (32-bit EFI)
- huge initrd: 60 s
- small initrd: 30 s

That works for me.

[dr. Dan]

@jamesbond: Thanks for looking, and I am only intending to be helpful to someone.

Just for curiosity, since I really do not know that much about system stuff, what files are in your laptop's path "/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0A:00/power_supply/BAT0/" (AKA the location of "$POWER_PATH/*/charge_now" on my systems? I had success on a Dell and a HP. I could try an Acer and an Asus, just to learn something.

I might be able to try running 702 and then 710 as a test, but it would be fairly inconvenient just now, so I'll ask for low expectations.

By the way, I installed FD710 on this HP using the Windows bootloader option, but it required a fair amount of research to learn how to configure the Windows 7 boot system to work. It was far from automatic!

Thanks as always.

[jamesbond]

@jamesbond: Thanks for looking, and I am only intending to be helpful to someone.

That's the spirit!

Just for curiosity, since I really do not know that much about system stuff, what files are in your laptop's path "/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0A:00/power_supply/BAT0/" (AKA the location of "$POWER_PATH/*/charge_now" on my systems? I had success on a Dell and a HP. I could try an Acer and an Asus, just to learn something.

Well for the first thing, I don't have BAT0, I have BAT1. I don't have "charge_now", but I do have energy_now. My laptop is a Vaio.

I might be able to try running 702 and then 710 as a test, but it would be fairly inconvenient just now, so I'll ask for low expectations.

I don't think it has anything to do with the versions. Just that different battery drivers (or ACPI) expose the same information in different way.

By the way, I installed FD710 on this HP using the Windows bootloader option, but it required a fair amount of research to learn how to configure the Windows 7 boot system to work. It was far from automatic!

When you have installed it, the installer will create a file that you can run to automate the process; but it is highly recommended that you read the file before doing anything. There are several modes of Win7 installation, but I remember if you follow the common cases, you should be able to find that file in your C: drive when you boot to Windows. Did you see this file? What exactly did the problem you encounter?

Thanks as always.

Much welcome.

[dr. Dan]

@ jamesbond

I might be able to try running 702 and then 710 as a test, but it would be fairly inconvenient just now, so I'll ask for low expectations.

This was in regard to your suggestion that I compare idle state between the two for battery consumption.

By the way, I installed FD710 on this HP using the Windows bootloader option, but it required a fair amount of research to learn how to configure the Windows 7 boot system to work. It was far from automatic!

When you have installed it, the installer will create a file that you can run to automate the process; but it is highly recommended that you read the file before doing anything. There are several modes of Win7 installation, but I remember if you follow the common cases, you should be able to find that file in your C: drive when you boot to Windows. Did you see this file? What exactly did the problem you encounter?

Thanks, it is working fine. I read the instructions repeatedly, ran the .exe file, but it did not accomplish the install successfully, so I modified the necessary files myself. I don't have enough understanding to help with diagnostics.

Thanks as always.

Much welcome.

[jamesbond]

This was in regard to your suggestion that I compare idle state between the two for battery consumption.

Oh, right. Well if the difference is not too big and you're not much affected then perhaps it's just the variation I said earlier.

Thanks, it is working fine. I read the instructions repeatedly, ran the .exe file, but it did not accomplish the install successfully, so I modified the necessary files myself. I don't have enough understanding to help with diagnostics.

No worries. Feel free to contact me if you have any problems with that in the future. In writing OS installer for dual-boot systems, "safety is number one priority" - I would rather the installation fail, rather that it messes the original OS the point that it won't boot. I tested the installer against pristine Win7, things may have changed with SP1 release and whatnot.

cheers!

[stemsee]

how to remove duplicate or any entry from fatdog-quick-locale-switcher?

[jamesbond]

Quick Locale Switcher is L18L's brainchild. If he's around it's best you get help from him. Otherwise I will look at this later.

Announcement for derivative builders (since you're one of them ): Next release of Fatdog will no longer have /root/spot. It will be relocated to /home/spot. Compatibility symlink will be provided.

[James C]

Fatdog review in the latest Distrowatch.....
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue ... 6#fatdog64

Final thoughts

Fatdog64 710 is a good choice for a someone looking for a distribution to put on a flash drive to use on multiple computers. The distribution's savefile persistence feature is really easy to set up and use. Even if not using a savefile to keep changes between sessions, Fatdog64 ships with enough software to be able to do most general computing tasks. Document editing, browsing the web, e-mail, even playing a few games can be accomplished using this super small distribution. While I personally would have opted for a few different packages here and there, Fatdog64 has a good collection of software and should prove useful for many users.

[jamesbond]

Thanks for the info James C. That's very nice review

One of the "issue" is inability to install into UEFI systems. True while we have plenty of documentation on how to do, there is no automated GUI tool. Perhaps we should write one.

[steff99]

Hi I started using fatdog today. I had some good experiences and some not so good. so instead of listing bad things, I thought I would list some good things and then offer some ideas for improvement.

I downloaded fatdog because I needed a 64bit pup with up to date support.

I liked how the most popular apps would download without problems.
I downloded skype without any problems at all.

however my issues came when I tried to download less known apps.

I noticed that fatdogs internet connection was done via a text base window. this worked but it was quite different to using frisbee, and being able to connect much faster.
I would offer a suggestion to integrate frisbee into the pup for ease of use.

I also love thunar file manager and the xfce desktop. I tired multiple times to get that working but it was impossible. perhaps a derivitive would go well?

my next step was to install java jre 8. I had big problems with this as the package in the repo was only version 1.7
jre 1.7 is very outdated now and has 100's of holes in it.
time for an update perhaps?

my

[drunkjedi]

my next step was to install java jre 8. I had big problems with this as the package in the repo was only version 1.7
jre 1.7 is very outdated now and has 100's of holes in it.
time for an update perhaps?

my

Fatdog doesn't package Java anymore in the repo, because Java is often updated and you usually want to use the latest version.
--- so Fatdog gives you the facility to do exactly that.

Howto:

1. Go in Fatdog control Panel, in last tab you will find Get Java Script, click it to run.
OR
Open terminal. Run "getjava.sh" (I suggest using this method as in terminal you can see if some error occurs and report it back here.)

2. It will run and attempt to fetch the latest version of Java JDK, and make a Java SFS out of it, located in /root. You can then use the SFS just like any other SFS (move it elsewhere, load it, etc).

[jamesbond]

@steff99:

Thank you for the feedback.

I noticed that fatdogs internet connection was done via a text base window.

The text-based network manager is meant for "more advanced" things like using static IP, etc.
For a typical situation using DHCP etc, it is much easier to use wpa_gui, as documented here:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/fa ... rking.html

PS: This document is also available locally in file:///usr/share/doc/faqs/Networking.html
PPS: Please ignore the information about "network-wizard". That stuff no longer exists and has been replaced with the text-based network manager you've seen before. The docs needs to be updated.

this worked but it was quite different to using frisbee, and being able to connect much faster.

Frisbee is faster, or the text-based manager is faster?

I would offer a suggestion to integrate frisbee into the pup for ease of use.

Suggestion noted, thanks.

I also love thunar file manager and the xfce desktop. I tired multiple times to get that working but it was impossible. perhaps a derivitive would go well?

We tested XFCE a few years ago. At that time it was noticeably bigger, and slower, than openbox/rox combination. We may try again later on.

A "derivative" of Fatdog, sort of, is available here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=108908. I'm not sure it has XFCE, though.

If Thunar is what you're looking for, perhaps you can try something similar: there is "spacefm" on the repo (spacefm is a fork of "pcmanfm").

my next step was to install java jre 8.

Open terminal. Run "getjava.sh" (I suggest using this method as in terminal you can see if some error occurs and report it back here.)

drunkjedi's suggestion is right. However the built-in getjava.sh has stopped working for the latest version of JDK 8 now; (no) thanks to Oracle changing their download URL, grrrr. Download the attached package (remove the ".gz" extension), install it, and you'll get updated getjava.sh that works.

EDIT: To make things easier I have uploaded Java JDK 8u121, which you can download using SFS Manager. In the future you can use getjava.sh to get updates.

[stemsee]

I added 'sort -unique to pipe to get rid of dups but still would like to know how to limit locales shown.

Thanks for the info James C. That's very nice review

One of the "issue" is inability to install into UEFI systems. True while we have plenty of documentation on how to do, there is no automated GUI tool. Perhaps we should write one.

Nice review!

I have one partition on my laptop labelled 'FATDOG_LIVE' with fatdog (stemsee.png and files now) REfind (or whatever it is called). Works great! A bit slower as three menus get loaded in sequence!

I can boot most windows pc with it on usb and secure boot off. When a windows pc has secure boot on here is what i do.
1) Boot to windows.
2) Copy efi dir to C: drive (after backing up any same-name-dirs 'boot' 'Boot' (sometimes need to copy also boot dir; othertimes just to make sure copy keys, data, efi,boot ad drivers) yes, windows lets you copy dirs but not files to root drive on secure public systems (libraries, Univeristies etc)
3) Restart pc with FATDOG_LIVE usb plugged in
4) Boots every time!

I wanted to ask you james about what goes on during boot, and whether mount or rename or cp commands are available, and if so could this process be scripted to work on win pc at boot time. How?

cheers
stemsee

[L18L]

how to remove duplicate or any entry from fatdog-quick-locale-switcher?

Sorry, I am not able to create duplicate entries.
How did you get them?

how to remove duplicate or any entry from fatdog-quick-locale-switcher?

Delete the corresponding directory in /usr/lib64/locale. (worked for me, zh_CN.utf8 deleted)

Code: Select all

# locale -a
C
de_AT.utf8
de_DE.utf8
en_AU
en_AU.utf8
en_US
en_US.utf8
fr_FR.utf8
POSIX
ru_UA.utf8
# 

Is Brazilian translation in progress?