America At War With Itself

[greengeek]

Then we can go back to the party that was able to nominate men like Lincoln, T. Roosevelt, Eisenhower and up to Reagan, and thus find new candidates with similar intellectual rigor and/or team building skills, who also approve of using "logic", "reason" and "common sense"

I'm not sure it is possible in the current climate to build a successful political party built on logic and reason.

Two human characteristics come to the fore:

Firstly human greed and desire for comfort leads many to support a candidate like Clinton who is well skilled at pulling the wool over peoples eyes. Such candidates play to the majority who don't really wish to confront issues and prefer to let a warm fuzzy leader do all the thinking for them.

Secondly human fear leads a number of people to support candidates like Trump - continually trying to identify a "common enemy" that can be hated, vilified and blamed - instead of constructively addressing the issues.

The group of people who try to address the issues using logic and reason has shrunk somewhat. I think that may be one of the pitfalls of democracy - it can make people too comfortable and insulated.

Would I want to live outside of a democracy? No
Would I like to live under the rule of a benevolent dictator - yes - as long as that dictator was me.
Do I think people deserve democracy or support it responsibly and adequately? Not really.

[musher0]

More direct democracy wouldn't hurt a bit.

To learn more about it, search here.

BFN.

[greengeek]

More direct democracy wouldn't hurt a bit..

But surely that can only work when likeminded people live in the same geographical place? (which was the idea I mentioned previously but you said it was too expensive environmentally for people to move )

If you have people with different ideas living in one geographical area and exercising direct democracy it becomes civil unrest and war.

Every culture needs it's homeland. (please notice that I said "culture" not "ethnicity")

"When in Rome do as the romans do..."

[labbe5]

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He’s going to lose. And he knows that. He knows he’s going to lose. And he’s such a flagrant, toxic narcissist that he wants to take down the entire democratic system with him if he goes. If he could reflect on these things, maybe he’d have—but he’s such an unreflective person. And he doesn’t—he simply has no sense of decency and no sense of responsibility about him. And the words that he’s been using over the past several weeks really are an attack on the entire democratic process.

Democracy Now interview.

[musher0]

More direct democracy wouldn't hurt a bit..

But surely that can only work when likeminded people live in the same geographical place? (which was the idea I mentioned previously but you said it was too expensive environmentally for people to move )

If you have people with different ideas living in one geographical area and exercising direct democracy it becomes civil unrest and war.

Every culture needs it's homeland. (please notice that I said "culture" not "ethnicity")

"When in Rome do as the romans do..."

Hi, greengeek.

It depends on what you mean by "like-minded".

As a silly example of "cultural identity", I suppose all citizens on my block
could hold a double-majority vote on wearing a chickadee feather over
their left ear and call the block the "chickadee block". (There are
lots of chickadees around here!)

Why should differences of opinion lead to civil unrest? I agree / disagree
with my friends all the time, on this or that topic. No casualties yet!

Euh... Surely you are familiar with the concepts of discussion, dialogue,
debate, compromise, give-and-take, negotiation, consensus?

What I like about the direct democracy process is that it involves people,
it engages them to think about a subject.

Of course, some people do not like -- or are too lazy -- to think,
or like to be lead blindly, that is another matter. Or is it? Maybe that's
why we have "representative" democracy.

Generally, direct democracy "instruments" help bring out finer points
about a public policy, closer-to-real-life perspectives, that the Senior Civil
Servants or Politicians (which I nevertheless do respect) will often miss in
preparing their motion.

If the policy to be voted on reflects a more accurate picture of the real-
life situation, citizens will be more interested, won't they?

BFN.

[Karl Godt]

BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN:

Two persons already here with background of someone who left Ancient Babylon because of multi-culti ..


The Berlin Airport seems not to get finished ever ..

[Karl Godt]

Firstly human greed and desire for comfort

People that act that way I call "narcisstic" .

[musher0]

I forgot to mention that direct democracy would prevent the "lathering-up"
(see belham2's post above) by any higher-up / big-wig in any party.

[Karl Godt]

Checkpoints are 2nd stage border patrol stations.

When the European Union deprecated border controls around 20-25 years ago,

Danes smuggling cheap alcoholics bought in cheapo Germany,
were stopped then in their busses in Denmark by Danish Customs to be "checked" for cigarettes and such.

Nevertheless, this policy was working that time - after newspapers printed stories about that .

With smuggling cheapo workforce there is probably not much statistics about .

And cheapo workforce is only of interest for rich people.

And I would call 70-90 % of current Germans that folk, that had this old reputation of
merchants and banksters ..

[rokytnji]

I get all my news from the source Luke.

You know. Those news rags lining the checkout counter at the grocery store that headline,

"My husband is space vampire and is dating a transvestite liberal from Syria and plans to
join a radical islamic group and then run for President of the United States!"

You get the best up to date. Unbiased, Factual news from there. Just like Fox News Network or Good Morning America on TV.

You know. Facts a guy needs to know.

[rokytnji]

OK. I fibbed a little.

https://news.vice.com/

https://www.linktv.org/

[Karl Godt]

Hopefully, we--the majority in the conservative movement---

Barry Goldstein in the 1960s once changed the "Republicans", to the reputation they have today.
As I had read on the internet - likely wikipedia .

What is a "conservative movement" today and was in the past ?
Same with "Democrats" ..

[Karl Godt]

"My husband is space vampire and is dating a transvestite liberal from Syria and plans to
join a radical islamic group and then run for President of the United States!"

Our newspapers print today on front page:

Conservative "Axel Springer" owned :

Hamburg Evening Leaf ( Hamburger Abendblatt ) :

25-year old with double state citizenship of Germany and Lebanon killed
Soccer Club sponsor and is on the run - drug addict, long court file, etc.

Bild ( "Picture", Yellow Press ) :

The sick world of the "Citizens of the Realm" ( a German killed special police officer
while court ordered removal of his possesions of weapons ) .


Now "Left Yellow Press" Hamburg Morning Post ( Hamburger Morgenpost ) :

Applouse for rapists at court ( 3 young men pictured with arabic ethicity - got low sentences )

Note : Refugees are called "rapefugees" in some parts of the population.

[Karl Godt]

The border is big and long. Of course something that big will be porous. No wall is feasible,
nor right wing rhetoric can change that fact.

Hungary once actually invited immigrants to settle to protect the boder :

The third, largest wave of Germanic-speaking immigrants into Hungary occurred due to a deliberate settlement policy of the Habsburg government after the expulsion of the Ottoman Empire from Hungarian territory. Between 1711 and 1780, German-speaking settlers from Southern Germany, Austria, and Saxony immigrated to the regions of Southwest Hungary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_of_Hungary
The text does not name a border protection cause, but just economical, but
I think I had read that cause once, and that might have been found either
elsewhere or either removed because of no source or political correctness.


What it needs would be a "living wall" with buildings and people to settle there
like some bridges of Paris .

Of course there is this ancient story about the "Whore Rahab" in the Old Testament.

25 But Rahab the harlot,

..

[bark_bark_bark]

Note : Refugees are called "rapefugees" in some parts of the population.

Yeah, I can see why.

[greengeek]

Why should differences of opinion lead to civil unrest?
I agree / disagree with my friends all the time, on this or that topic. No casualties yet!

Yes, but differences of opinion are not the same thing as differences of culture or differences of religion.

Imagine if your neighbours religion outlawed the wearing of chickadees. Would you accept that? No! You are a proud wearer of the chickadee! You would ask them to move on and leave you alone.

Euh... Surely you are familiar with the concepts of discussion, dialogue, debate, compromise, give-and-take, negotiation, consensus?

Well, i hope so - although compromise can be difficult. If my neighbour wakes up every day at 1pm in the afternoon and doesn't go to bed until he stops partying at 3am in the wee small hours I don't feel like compromising and changing my life to suit his schedule. I prefer to tell him to take his culture somewhere else.

I read about problems in Birmingham where traditionally quiet mornings became interrupted by loudspeakers chanting "calls to prayer" and annoyed citizens were told to accept the changes as they were based on "religious freedoms" from another country. Who makes the compromise? In this case there can be no compromise - there is only a winner and a loser.

In my opinion it would be better to expect such a religion to stay in it's place of origin and not try to spread to other areas. This is why religions that expect to inherit the world are so damaging and divisive.

As a silly example of "cultural identity", I suppose all citizens on my block could hold a double-majority vote on wearing a chickadee feather over their left ear and call the block the "chickadee block".

This is a bad example. The chickadee has no cultural value. It must be outlawed.

Of course, some people do not like -- or are too lazy -- to think, or like to be lead blindly, that is another matter. Or is it? Maybe that's
why we have "representative" democracy.

That is a very valid point. You're right - that is one of the main reasons we have "representative democracy". It doesn't require as much input and effort.

Generally, direct democracy "instruments" help bring out finer points about a public policy, closer-to-real-life perspectives, that the Senior Civil Servants or Politicians (which I nevertheless do respect) will often miss in preparing their motion.

Yes, a good example of the need for more direct input.

But back to the point about differences of opinion versus differences of culture - let me give you a good example: Last night we had dinner at a local Italian restaurant and i ordered a ribeye steak with creamy mushrooms. This is one of my all time favourite dishes and a real treat when we can afford to go out. When the waiter placed the meal in front of me he produced a large pepper grinder and asked if I would like pepper. Of course I refused - what person in their right mind would want to destroy the subtle flavour of fine creamy mushrooms, or mask the delicious flavour of a juicy rib-eye by applying pepper??!@#!?

Sacre Bleu that is madness!

However when I ate the meal I realised that the chef had already added plenty of pepper to the dish and I could not taste either mushrooms or steak. The waiter later asked if the meal was ok and I replied no, it was full of pepper - he said that both salt and pepper are condiments and the chef likes to use them in his cooking. I was dumbfounded. Since when did the chefs cultural cuisine become important??? He likes cooking with pepper? Then send him to a country where people have no taste buds. Sacre Noir!!!

Let me know if you find a country where the local culture allows people to taste the flavour of their food and not have it bastardised by either pepper or chili powder. In my opinion I would like to share their culture.

[rokytnji]

Let me know if you find a country where the local culture allows people to taste the flavour of their food and not have it bastardised by either pepper or chili powder. In my opinion I would like to share their culture.

Iceland?

The traditional method is by gutting and beheading a Greenland or sleeper shark and placing it in a shallow hole dug in gravelly sand, with the now cleaned cavity resting on a small mound of sand. The shark is then covered with sand and gravel, and stones are placed on top of the sand in order to press the shark. In this way the fluids are pressed out of the body. The shark ferments in this fashion for 6–12 weeks depending on the season. Following this curing period, the shark is then cut into strips and hung to dry for several months. During this drying period a brown crust will develop, which is removed prior to cutting the shark into small pieces and serving.

No mention of chili powder or pepper there.

Inuits?

largely in the form of glycogen from the raw meat they consumed.[22][23] This high fat content provides valuable energy and prevents protein poisoning, which historically was sometimes a problem in late winter when game animals grew lean through winter starvation. It has been suggested that because the fats of the Inuit's wild-caught game are largely monounsaturated and rich in omega-3 fatty acids, the diet does not pose the same health risks as a typical Western high-fat diet.

Just to name a couple.

Edit: I live in chili land. But then. We eat offal.
Plus the high temps in the desert spoils food real fast out here.
No Mushrooms in the desert. Just Cactus.

Edit: My bad. They use salt and pepper in their cooking

Suaasat is a traditional Greenlandic soup. It is often made from seal, or from whale, reindeer, or sea-birds.

The soup often includes onions and potatoes and is simply seasoned with salt and pepper or bay leaf. The soup is often thickened with rice or by soaking barley in the water overnight so that the starches leach into the water.

[musher0]

You guys are making me hungry for some freshly killed deer steak with
wild mushrooms, no salt, no pepper , grilled under a branch of pîne.
Me being Canadian -- not French !!! -- and who knows one sixteenth
Iroquois if I follow the trail of my mother's maiden name (mystery here).

No appetite whatsoever for partly rotten Greenland shark, though!

On the other subject, I agree that muezzin calls and ringing church bells
should remain in their respective countries of origin.

BFN.

[greengeek]

The traditional method is by gutting and beheading a Greenland or sleeper shark and placing it in a shallow hole dug in gravelly sand, with the now cleaned cavity resting on a small mound of sand. The shark is then covered with sand and gravel, and stones are placed on top of the sand in order to press the shark. In this way the fluids are pressed out of the body. The shark ferments in this fashion for 6–12 weeks depending on the season.

Blerrrchhhh!

Nope. Thats not it.

I'm thinking I will stick with a big Mac. Guaranteed no pepper there.

[amigo]

As they say in Mexico, What is food without chile?