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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
XenialDog (Ubuntu 16.04 'Xenial Xerus' LTS, 32-bit)
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Fri 17 Jun 2016, 12:38    Post subject: Waiting that the wireless problems XenialDog solved  

Xenialpup ?
Waiting that the wireless problems XenialDog solved, i checked Xenialpup beta. Some screen freeze.
I let your repair wireless, i will come back from time to time, and feed back how may apps run well thanks to XenialDog (page 14!)

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2016, 22:13    Post subject: snapcraft and snap  

Hi Fred,

Hope I'm not missing something here. But today, I installed snapcraft onto my XenialDog system since snap format creation and use seems to me to be an important package format to become familiar. I read that "Ubuntu 16.04 LTS introduces software distribution on your own terms with the snap packaging format" so was keen to try it. However, I think there should be a 'snap' command and the only one I find on the system is a same-name script used at save changes (I think) in /usr/local/bin. I wondered if that might not cause a problem in dpkg with official snap. The program snapcraft installed fine, but 'snap' binary is not included in that - am I wrong about something(?) in terms of expecting 'snap' binary to be present in XenialXerus - in particular, where is the binary called snap (or how to install it?) as referred to here:

https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/desktop/

and as used here:

http://snapcraft.io/

If it has been taken out of your Xenial Xerus build, how do we get it back in again (it is surely important to have)?

William

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4158
Location: holland

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2016, 03:31    Post subject:  

Hi William,

Yes, indeed a problem, for the "snap" binary (in /usr/bin) you need to install the "snapd" package.
Not a conflict with dpkg because the paths are different but the same name in $PATH is indeed a problem that needs fixing in next ISO.
For a temporary workaround:
- Rename for example /usr/local/bin/snap to /usr/local/bin/snap-ex
- Edit in /etc/init.d/snapexit replace:
Code:
   exec /usr/local/bin/snap </dev/console >/dev/console 2>&1

With:
Code:
   exec /usr/local/bin/snap-ex </dev/console >/dev/console 2>&1

To correspond with the script /usr/local/bin/snap-ex

Added to Changes and fixes list

Fred

Last edited by fredx181 on Wed 29 Jun 2016, 14:38; edited 1 time in total
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2016, 04:28    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
Hi William,

Yes, indeed a problem


Thanks Fred,

I had actually already installed snapd package (without changing name of existing snap script in /usr/local/bin. I 'thought' I had checked inside it (after extracting the deb) for the snap binary and hadn't found it in there, but on now re-checking, I had only extracted snapcraft and another app called 'snap' and forgot about extracting snapd in my earlier check...! That other app called snap had nothing to do with the snapcraft, by the way, but something about DNA instead (!), so I had already uninstalled that...

Oh well, will be interesting to try snap and snapcraft more fully now.

William

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solo


Joined: 14 Nov 2013
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2016, 06:37    Post subject:  

Though I see how the snap format has advantages from a developers point of view, there are also a definate downside to it.

As far as I can tell, snap works best on configurations that do not have many size contraints. Which is another way of saying, newer configurations. Which is another way of saying, 64-bit configurations.

XenialDog is a 32-bit Puppy, so I suppose it targets older, 32-bit based systems.

The problem is of course, that snap packages remain self contained when installed, including all dependencies.
This means there's a whole lot of redundancy (see how I'm trying to avoid the word 'bloat') being created, and this will express itself in drive space.

So it's handy, but not on all fronts.
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jun 2016, 07:00    Post subject:  

solo wrote:
Though I see how the snap format has advantages from a developers point of view, there are also a definate downside to it.
...
The problem is of course, that snap packages remain self contained when installed, including all dependencies.
This means there's a whole lot of redundancy (see how I'm trying to avoid the word 'bloat') being created, and this will express itself in drive space.
.


Yes, I agree, and commented about the bloat aspects in my post here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=908940#908940

EDIT2: I've since added comment to above post about de-duplication, which seems to offer shared libs possibility, though I've not read up about the details as yet.

William

EDIT: By the way, the laptop I mainly use is 64bit capable core-II duo machine, but it's around 8 or 9 years old now I think, and has 2 GB RAM and no hard-drive (booting from frugal install on 16GB SD card usually, so relatively low on resources generally). However, it is true that such resource limitations are tending to vanish on newer machines and I believe snap applications, being self-contained in terms of libs used, probably result in a more stable system in the sense that an app crashing won't probably cause other apps to also crash (?)

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun 2016, 19:15    Post subject: lxterminal as roxterm replacement?  

Hi Fred,

Since roxterm is no longer going to be developed because of major issues with gtk3, I suggest future to use lxterminal (along with installing xdg-utils so you can open url links using Ctrl-left-click from terminal). Though a bigger download, it seems to be worth it in terms of running efficiency.

I did some tests with sakura and lxterminal versus roxterm, with four terminals open and lxterminal using about half the RAM than roxterm (and also only needs one lxterminal process running to create the four instances). Sakura isn't so good and opens new process (each with twice the RAM) for each terminal instance.

William

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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Sun 26 Jun 2016, 21:33    Post subject: Users shall use the terminal made available  

Users shall use the terminal made available. For us, it's not so important.
Wireless trouble is solved, is it.
XenialDog runs fine, at home. However i will return to Puppy Linux, Dogs versions seem so hard to understand for non linux programmers.
Programming seems the only reason of using XenialDog. That is not true, Xeniald DOg allows to use applications not yet compiled in Puppy Linux. But how to feed back here ? This advantage seems of no interest in this topic.

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4158
Location: holland

PostPosted: Wed 29 Jun 2016, 14:14    Post subject:  

William wrote:
Since roxterm is no longer going to be developed because of major issues with gtk3, I suggest future to use lxterminal
....
....


Personally I need a terminal that supports drag and drop (e.g. for to drop a script), lxterminal doesn't support that.
It's a pity roxterm uses so much RAM compared to lxterminal, maybe I'll switch to xfce4-terminal to have included, but it would take much more space (and I didn't test for RAM usage yet)

Fred
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4158
Location: holland

PostPosted: Wed 29 Jun 2016, 14:18    Post subject:  

Hi All,

*** WifiBox ***
A simple networkmanager, added now to XenialDog repository.
For those having trouble connecting to wireless by using frisbee this might be a good light alternative.
(borrowed from Slitaz but with many modifications I made, thanks to William (mcewanw) for bringing it up)

Two packages:
- wifibox, install:
Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install wifibox

(or through Synaptic Package Manager)
It's using udhcpc client (part of busybox) and yad for the GUI
Connects very quick.

- wifibox-dhcpcd, install:
Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install wifibox-dhcpcd

(or through Synaptic Package Manager)
This is using dhcpcd client.
Possible advantages:
-it supports the "dropwait" option.
When you're having wireless dropouts (like me, probably it's because of my router) it reconnects in a second instead of going through the whole leasing process again.
- Wired and wireless connection both at the same time (udhcpc doesn't seem to support that, it's one or the other)

Also here's another package with "tazpanel" included (using udhcpc) (not in repository, but can be downloaded and installed)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36381953/XenialDog/NoRepo/wifibox-tazpanel_1.0.2_i386.deb
Install from terminal:
Code:
dpkg -i wifibox-tazpanel_1.0.2_i386.deb

Pressing the Preferences button at the wifibox GUI it will load tazpanel control center (using default_web-browser).
Thanks again to William for collecting the required files from Slitaz.
Note: A number of options that are specific for Slitaz won't work (that why it's added as no-repo package)

Added to Changes and fixes list

Fred
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iki_sure

Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed 29 Jun 2016, 15:02    Post subject:  

Hi.. Newbie here. Igot out of range in monitor in booting. Please help. Booting from puppy, mintpup and other is fine. Only from xenialdog igot this problem.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
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Location: holland

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2016, 14:57    Post subject:  

Hi All,

DebianDog website launched (includes similar projects, such as XenialDog), see more info here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=911585#911585

Fred
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul 2016, 17:39    Post subject: pet convert to deb wrongly  

Hi Fred,

I can't remember if I already mentioned this or if you already know:

In XenialDog LTS 32-bit, which I remain currently using, the right click menu item in pcmanfm "Convert pet to deb" creates deb package with system amd64 in its Debian Control so on install deb attempt get:

Code:
package architecture (amd64) does not match system (i386)


That would be an unwelcome surprise to Puppy users who are trying out XenialDog and wanting to convert some little pet utilities.

I don't know if there is similar issue in other DebianDog distributions.

William

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trio


Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 2083
Location: अनुमोदना

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jul 2016, 03:52    Post subject:  

Hi,

I am able to boot until it gave error when starting X. it gave up.

Chip description:
5.0 VGA compatible controller: AMD/ATI [Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.] RS480M [Mobility Radeon Xpress 200]
oem: ATI MOBILITY RADEON Xpress 200G Series

X Server: Xorg Driver used: radeon
X.Org version: 1.14.3
dimensions: 1280x768 pixels (338x203 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes

Any help? Thanks

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jul 2016, 06:57    Post subject:  

William wrote:
In XenialDog LTS 32-bit, which I remain currently using, the right click menu item in pcmanfm "Convert pet to deb" creates deb package with system amd64 in its Debian Control so on install deb attempt get:

Code:
package architecture (amd64) does not match system (i386)


Oops, thanks William, should be fixed in next ISO.
To fix manually edit /usr/local/bin/pet2deb , change line 78 to:
Code:
Architecture: i386


@trio, sorry, I can't test that.
The package "xserver-xorg-video-radeon" is installed and should support RS480 chip.

Fred

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