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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
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step

Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 1352

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2016, 09:04    Post subject:  

LazY Puppy wrote:

And what was used to build the 64bit distro used to build the 64bit distro used to build Slacko 64?

And ... ... ... so on?

Any logical sequence in there?
If you look at this sequence backwards from today it does seem to illogically regress forever. But looking at it from the days computers started, a practical solution was devised - bootstrapping. Read especially the second paragraph of the section I linked. It contrasts early days bootstrapping with modern times cross-compiling.
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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2016, 10:06    Post subject:  

I know this (bootstrapping) already, since I had learned programming in Pascal back in the 1980's. The Pascal version I used at these times was written/created in C.

When I was shaped to a locksmith/metalworker (at Volkswagen Germany), they just installed the first computers using punch cards to process the data of the workers of the company.

Though this bootstrapping (its description) is more of a general technical explanation but it doesn't explain what was used to build the first 64bit Puppy ever (which is probably Slacko 64?) using WoofCE.

The quote I made says it needs a 64bit Puppy to create a 64bit Puppy in WoofCE.

I doubt heavily Slacko 64 was made by assembler or even bit by bit on papers etc.pp..

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"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1566

PostPosted: Wed 18 May 2016, 12:35    Post subject:  

@LazY Puppy

The Woof-CE system was made after Puppy was created, probably around the end of 4.x or start of 5.x (according to github, the first commit was Nov 12th, 2013), so the concept that it could use resources from puppy to build a puppy makes sense. There are certainly places in the 0..3 scripts (mentioned in the first post) where it expects certain things to exist or be in certain places (ie. it expects either mkisofs or xorrisofs to build the iso), sift through those scripts and you'll see what I mean.
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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu 19 May 2016, 02:47    Post subject:  

LazY Puppy wrote:
Need a 32bit Puppy running to build 32bit Puppy?
Need a 64bit Puppy running to build 64bit Puppy?
Tahr 64 build by using Slacko 64?

What was used to build Slacko 64?

And what was used to build the 64bit distro used to build Slacko 64?

And what was used to build the 64bit distro used to build the 64bit distro used to build Slacko 64?

And ... ... ... so on?

Any logical sequence in there?

Just found out by trial and error: One doesn't need to run a 64bit Puppy generally to create/build a 64bit Puppy !

Now I need to find out how to create the necessary files to build a Puppy Linux using Woof CE that wasn't built already before - like Xenial Xerus in 64bit. Don't want to build again an already built Puppy Linux but want to build a new one.

Anyone can tell how to build a really new Puppy Linux first time like Xenial Xerus in 64bit?

It seems to need those files:
Code:
../woof-distro/x86_64/ubuntu/trusty64/DISTRO_COMPAT_REPOS-ubuntu-trusty
../woof-distro/x86_64/ubuntu/trusty64/DISTRO_PET_REPOS
../woof-distro/x86_64/ubuntu/trusty64/DISTRO_PKGS_SPECS-ubuntu-trusty
../woof-distro/x86_64/ubuntu/trusty64/DISTRO_SPECS
../woof-distro/x86_64/ubuntu/trusty64/PKGS_MANAGEMENT

but just for xenial64.

So how to create those files to build from xenial64?

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"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8787
Location: qld

PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2016, 22:52    Post subject:  

LazY Puppy wrote:
Quote:
first off for 32bit build from a 32bit install (i used tahrpup 6.0.5 for this test) and for 64bit build from a 64bit pup ie tahrpup64 (the very first tahrpup64 was built from slacko64)

I don't understand this, as it's not logical to me.

Need a 32bit Puppy running to build 32bit Puppy?
Need a 64bit Puppy running to build 64bit Puppy?
Tahr 64 build by using Slacko 64?

What was used to build Slacko 64?

And what was used to build the 64bit distro used to build Slacko 64?

And what was used to build the 64bit distro used to build the 64bit distro used to build Slacko 64?

And ... ... ... so on?

Any logical sequence in there?


Theoretically, as long as dependencies exist in the host, any 32 bit distro can build a 32 bit pup, any 64 bit distro can build a 64 bit pup and vice versa however if building from a different arch certain things in woof may not be able to be run from chroot. These things will be run at first startup from /etc/rc.d/rc.update.

Slacko64 was first built from slacko (32) with binaraies compiled in/stolen from slackware64 and FatDog64 then once I had a working slacko64 build I rebuilt all the binaries (except bins sourced from slackware repos in woof) natively. See here and here.

I hope this answers the question.

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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat 21 May 2016, 22:19    Post subject:  

Quote:
I hope this answers the question.

Yes.

I can see now also why there wasn't just a Puppy once a year!

Thanks!

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"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 25 May 2016, 09:05    Post subject:  

Woof CE has two different scripts called: init

1.) /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-out_x86_x86_64_ubuntu_trusty64/boot/initrd-tree0/init - (2101 lines of code)
- /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-CE-testing/woof-code/boot/initrd-tree0/init

2.) /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-out_x86_x86_64_ubuntu_trusty64/huge_extras/init - (2180 lines of code)
- /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-CE-testing/woof-code/huge_extras/init

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RSH

"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1566

PostPosted: Wed 25 May 2016, 10:39    Post subject:  

LazY Puppy wrote:
I can see now also why there wasn't just a Puppy once a year!

I don't understand this comment... or what it has to do with what it's replying to. Help me Obi Wan
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gyro

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 1799
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed 25 May 2016, 17:42    Post subject:  

LazY Puppy wrote:
Woof CE has two different scripts called: init

1.) /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-out_x86_x86_64_ubuntu_trusty64/boot/initrd-tree0/init - (2101 lines of code)
- /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-CE-testing/woof-code/boot/initrd-tree0/init

2.) /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-out_x86_x86_64_ubuntu_trusty64/huge_extras/init - (2180 lines of code)
- /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-CE-testing/woof-code/huge_extras/init
My understanding is that "woof-code/huge_extras/init" is the one used by current puppies that use a "huge" kernel.
That's the "init" I use for development work, and commit against.
gyro
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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 25 May 2016, 18:33    Post subject:  

Sailor Enceladus wrote:
LazY Puppy wrote:
I can see now also why there wasn't just a Puppy once a year!

I don't understand this comment... or what it has to do with what it's replying to. Help me Obi Wan

When I joined the forum in 2011 there was Lucid (Ubuntu 10). Next Puppy came out was Precise (Ubuntu 12). Tahr is Ubuntu 14. Xenial is Ubuntu 16. There was also Unicorn and Vivid, but don't know what these are based on. There wasn't a Natty, Oneiric and/or Wily.

So I always asked myself why there wasn't Puppies based on Ubuntu 11 or Ubuntu 13 or Ubuntu 15 - which seems to be clear to me by now.

The reason for this is to be found in the huge work to be done to create a new Puppy at first by using Woof CE - as 01micko explained on how he did create Slacko 64.

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"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8787
Location: qld

PostPosted: Thu 26 May 2016, 05:56    Post subject:  

Entirely not related to the current discussion but absolutely related to the thread topic is this excellent blog post by zigbert:

Upload to Woof via web interface

Enjoy! (... and if you do, consider having a go!)

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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu 26 May 2016, 08:22    Post subject:  

gyro wrote:
LazY Puppy wrote:
Woof CE has two different scripts called: init

1.) /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-out_x86_x86_64_ubuntu_trusty64/boot/initrd-tree0/init - (2101 lines of code)
- /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-CE-testing/woof-code/boot/initrd-tree0/init

2.) /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-out_x86_x86_64_ubuntu_trusty64/huge_extras/init - (2180 lines of code)
- /mnt/sde2/WoofCE-Tahr64/woof-CE-testing/woof-code/huge_extras/init
My understanding is that "woof-code/huge_extras/init" is the one used by current puppies that use a "huge" kernel.
That's the "init" I use for development work, and commit against.
gyro

After examining different init scripts from different Puppies I found the following.

- init scripts from tahr/tahr64 (6.0.2 to 6.0.5) are different to the current init scripts in Woof CE
- init script from xenial (7.0.1) seems to be equal to the init script from huge_extras in Woof CE

_________________
RSH

"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1566

PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun 2016, 21:25    Post subject:  

If you put the github page under a black light, you can see hidden white graphs. Laughing
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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun 2016, 19:17    Post subject:  

Hi.

Probably anyone has any knowledge to share about this?

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RSH

"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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recobayu


Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 389
Location: indonesia

PostPosted: Mon 08 Aug 2016, 00:06    Post subject:  

Now, I am still trying to build xenialpup-7.0.2 as suggested by Sailor here.
I still on ./1download process. It is soo long time, i think. but it is ok, i am waiting it now..
when will I can customize theme, background, etc? At what process?
So my xenialpup's iso will be configured my custom.
Thank you.
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