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moeppyfan


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sat 26 Mar 2016, 16:49    Post subject:  

slavvo67 wrote:
Slacko 14.1 with Kernel #15. 4.1.11 and # 11. 3.18.22 both worked for me.

One interesting oddity I noticed: When running ./2createpackages on glibc (2.17), the temporary folder /lib/incoming (3.2MB) doesn't get removed, so there's two copies of the same 23 libraries (in /lib and /lib/incoming). It looks like hack-install.sh gets lost somehow around line 260 when running it through layer_top, so a few other things after it aren't run correctly either. Not sure if this affects much*, but I think lib/incoming can be safely removed after? Interestingly, this won't save you any space in the sfs though, because mksquashfs is smart enough to find duplicates and merge them into the same compressed space Smile

Code:
# Now, get rid of the temporary directory:
rm -rf lib/incoming

*note: Looks like glibc-2.17, glib-solibs, and glibc-zoneinfo all concatenate a script to /tmp/hack-install.sh when they're being processed, but the first glibc-2.17 script does all three already, so when it gets to the second script (line 198) it gets confused and ends up copying all the glibc folders (bin, etc, lib, sbin, usr, var) to the main directory. Deleting lines 198-351 (end) fixes it.
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 1618
Location: The other Mr. 305

PostPosted: Mon 28 Mar 2016, 23:49    Post subject:  

When using Woof-CE x86, x86 to create a Debian Wheezy, Kernel 3.12.3, the 2buildpets gets the following message:

File system loop detected:

./usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu is part of the same filesystem loop as ./usr/lib

It seems to still be processing but probably doing twice the processing that it needs to...

Debian Wheezy did work, though. I think that I'm finally getting the hang of this....

Best,

Slavvo67
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step

Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 1238

PostPosted: Wed 04 May 2016, 10:17    Post subject:  

Does a woof system build set an environment variable to signal its children that it's running? What I'm looking for is some sort of environment flag that I can use in my own package (pet) build scripts to enter woof-specific code branches. SFR's PackIt uses this code bit
if [ "`pwd`" != "/" ]; then # Woof
so I'm looking for something equivalent, but as an environment flag, TIA.

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Robin2

Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Thu 12 May 2016, 04:51    Post subject:  

I can't figure where is the best place to ask questions about Woof-CE - is this the principal Thread on the subject?

I have just downloaded the Woof code and tried to run it. My interest is to build a version of Tahrpup but with the latest Xenial version of Ubuntu. However the most recent option that Woof offered was TrustyTahr.

Is a more recent version not possible?

...R
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14716
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 12 May 2016, 05:13    Post subject:  

Robin2 wrote:
I can't figure where is the best place to ask questions about Woof-CE - is this the principal Thread on the subject?

I have just downloaded the Woof code and tried to run it. My interest is to build a version of Tahrpup but with the latest Xenial version of Ubuntu. However the most recent option that Woof offered was TrustyTahr.

Is a more recent version not possible?

...R
Hi Robin2.

Aren't you jumping the gun? Smile Wait until 666philb has finished putting the XenialPup
together? It's not even in beta yet.

BFN.

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~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Thu 12 May 2016, 07:06    Post subject:  

Just a note for Woof-CE 'people'.

I at one stage started building/adapting an early woof-CE to add openSUSE to it's platform. OpenSuSE and it's predecessor SuSE is where I came from after working with Yggdrasil for a number of it's early years until it dissapeared.
Part of the problem of adding openSuSE into the mix was the number of repositories it uses (>12 individual ones) as it is split up and with each group being responsable for different application (not package) sets. There was also a number of other scripts and 'settings' files such as PACKAGES_CAT and PACKAGES_MANAGEMENT that needed serious reworking to handle the changes. I also used Jemimah's scripts to add extra sfs mount points as well as a few other 'goodies'.

At one stage it got stopped due to the complexity of it and the direction BarryK was taking Puppy and for some reason I never got back into it.

As I am having to go through my old archive multi-system due to the number of drives now starting to fail (what do you expect of +20year old drives) and moving the remainder all over to a new scsi32 half-rack I have been gifted.

When I come across this work again is anyone interested in taking it on, or do I just leave it in the new archive?

There is quite a bit of other early woof/woof2/woof-CE stuff I have if anyone wants a copy of it, although most if not all will be superceeded by now.

Unfortunately my health is not the best anymore and I am severly curtailing everything I am involved with until it improves somewhat.

Anyway if you are after something please reply or send a pm and i'll note that and reply if I find what is wanted.

regards to all
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Robin2

Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Thu 12 May 2016, 07:50    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:

Aren't you jumping the gun? Smile


Quite likely.

I have found very little explanation of how Woof works or what is needed to make it use different versions.

I naively assumed that it would just list all the available versions of Ubuntu. Does it have to be tailored to each one?

...R
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14716
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 12 May 2016, 09:21    Post subject:  

Hello again, Robin2.

Well... no. Not all versions of ubuntu, not all version of Debian, etc.

Behind all the hoopla about Puppy being able to feed on / be created from any major
repo, there's a lot that's unsaid. The docs are now a lot better than they used to be
-- partly because of this thread --, but the "Woof" is still a work in progress.

I tried my hand at building two. I failed at the first try and halted the second one
(although the 2nd experience was successful) because I felt that I didn't know
enough about Puppy and Linux generally. IMO, you have to be in the top 1% of
Linuxians to come out of the woof-building process with a viable ISO to offer.

The fact of the matter is that some versions are still in template form. If you choose
one of those, you, the would-be Puppy builder, will have to bring the template to
completion before you can do anything interesting with it. That's why I say it requires
a lot of Linux knowledge. You will find helpful people along the way, but still, it's
going to be hard.

In short, it's a lot of work, it requires a lot of knowledge and determination (even
stubbornness). If you're not a top Linuxian, you may want to try your hand at
remastering an existing Puppy first.

BFN.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)

Last edited by musher0 on Fri 13 May 2016, 18:06; edited 1 time in total
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3428
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Thu 12 May 2016, 14:22    Post subject:  

Musher0, you have a lot of good points. I'd like to expand on them.
musher0 wrote:
Well... no. Not all versions of ubuntu, not all version of Debian, etc. Behind all the hoopla about Puppy being able to feed on / be created from any major
repo, there's a lot that's unsaid.

Indeed. The major unsaid assumption is this: Woof-CE can build from Debian, *but only specific versions*; Woof-CE can also build from Ubuntu, *but only for specific versions*; Woof-CE can also build form Slackware, but again *only for specific versions*, etc.

Now, which versions exactly that we can build Puppy from? They are the versions that Puppy developers have built and tested themselves (e.g. Slackware 14.1, Tahrpup, etc). They are the people at the frontier who push the edge forward, who did the hard work testing, and fixing, and then contributed their knowledge to Woof-CE. E.g. originally Woof-CE could only build from Ubuntu Lucid, then 666philb attempted to build from Tahr, and after numerous tests and the build went stable, the fixes went into Woof-CE and now everyone should be able to build a Tahrpup. Same story with Slackware (with 01micko -version 13, 13.37, 14, 14.1), and right now peebee is building Lxpup from Slackware current (which will become 14.2); when it is stable all the knowledge gained from tests and bugs are contributed to Woof-CE --> end result, everybody will be able to build from Slackware 14.2 when peebee is done with this experiment.

It also means that, if no one has previously ever build the version you want to build (e.g. attempting to build Puppy from Debian Jessie or from Devuan for example), you will *most likely* end up in failure, since you're the first to take on the uncharted waters (the reason is obvious: things change from versions to versions, nothing ever stays the same); and apart from minor help, please do not expect help from other puppy developers; *after all they are busy fighting their own dragons*. If you want to become the pioneer, then expect problems. If you are generous enough, you may want to contribute back to Woof-CE so other people after you don't have to re-live your nightmare - but as usual, while coming as highly recommended, contribution to Woof-CE is optional Laughing

Quote:
The docs are now a lot better than they used to be
-- partly because of this thread --, but the "Woof" is still a work in progress.

Woof-CE will *always* be work in progress because the parent distributions always change. Things that work today may not work tomorrow after a version upgrade. It's just the nature of things. It also highlights the difficulty that Woof-CE has with rolling-release parent distros (like Arch for example); what works today may not work tomorrow.

A stable Woof-CE is a dead Woof-CE.

Quote:
I tried my hand at building two. I failed at the first try and halted the second one
(although the 2nd experience was successful) because I felt that I didn't know
enough about Puppy and Linux generally. IMO, you have to be in the top 1% of
Linuxians to come out of the woof-building process with a viable ISO to offer.

Indeed. I would not say anything about percentage - but you definitely must have elevated yourself above the "noobs" level. After all, we are talking about *building an entire freaking operating system* here. Nobody goes from an Airbus passenger to Airbus pilot without any sort of training.

The fact that you can do it only in two iterations definitely put you in the top 1% Linuxians group Laughing

As an aside, however, if you think Woof-CE is hard, try building a OS from T2-SDE (Barry's favorite source-based distro before he was led astray by Sabotage Laughing). Yes, in case you don't know, T2-SDE can build a full OS just like Woof-CE - you ends up with an ISO. And T2-SDE isn't the only one, in fact, there are *plenty* of such OS builders - buildroot is one, Sabotage is another one, etc.

You will not, however, find any OS builders for Debian, Fedora, Slackware and OpenSUSE. This they keep to themselves.

Quote:
The fact of the matter is that some versions are still in template form. If you choose
one of those, you, the would-be Puppy builder, will have to bring the template to
completion before you can do anything interesting with it.
Woof-CE indeed comes with "templates" (more like a set of package lists) to build Puppy, each parent distro will provide different package lists; and each different version of the distro will also provide tweaked versions of the package lists.

As said above, some package list (or "templates") are more mature than others. The idea of having package lists is so that you can edit them - to add/remove packages yourself. After all, the point of building of a custom Puppy is because you want to *customise* it, isn't it?

My recommendation for anyone who is testing their way to use Woof-CE is this:
a) choose a parent distro and version which is *known* to build and work well. Try building that, see if you can replicate functionalities as good enough as the official released Puppy. If you can't even do this, then perhaps something is wrong, either in Woof-CE or by yourself. Post questions, will get answers. This hopefully will equip you with some survival skills for doing b), below.

b) Only if you are confident with a), then you start customising, and start leaving the well-trodden path. Change to a non-supported versions/distros; drop some packages; introduce new ones, etc. Once you're in this uncharted territory, as said above, you are mostly on their own.

c) If you survive b), then as the new Woof-CE warrior that have conquered new lands, we hope that you're willing to share your story and spoils by providing patches, bug fixes, modified/updated templates, "known problem notes", etc back to Woof-CE, so that other can come to visit your new land with much lesser trouble and perils as you once did.

Quote:
In short, it's a lot of work, it requires a lot of knowledge and determination (even
stubbornness). If you're not a top Linuxian, you may want to try your hand at
remastering an existing Puppy first.

Well said. I couldn't say it better myself.

cheers!

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14716
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 12 May 2016, 15:47    Post subject:  

Thanks for the compliment, James! Wink

Your "expansion" was enlightening for me. I hope it will help Robin2, too. (There may
very well be a Puppyist named "Robin Tutu" who needs help as well, but I really
mean: "Robin2, too".) Wink

In the hope that I thoroughly confused you all! Laughing BFN.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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Robin2

Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Fri 13 May 2016, 04:57    Post subject:  

I don't see myself becoming a Woof user - certainly not if it involves hard work Smile

What I want to have (and which Tahrpup on this PC gives) is the ability to take a copy of my whole system (including downloaded apps) to another PC or to re-install the whole thing on this PC without needing to download all the extras a second time.

But Tahrpup won't work on my new ACER Cloudbook whereas Xubuntu 16.04 will - hence the idea of keeping all the Tahrpup stuff but just using the newer 16.04 core (if that's the correct word).

I have now discovered that Quirky8 works fine on my ACER. But it does not use the SFS squashed files so I don't have the simplicity of taking a copy of the whole thing.

And I can't use the saveFile from this PC which is a real PITA.

...R
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2016, 13:10    Post subject:  

Hello @Robin2

Q8 is a "FULL" installation to a USB (or an HDD/SSD). It, although I haven't tried, should allow you to make a restorable backup of your currently running Q8.

If not, you should post any reply or comment on the Q8 thread, here, regarding issues/successes. Expect helpful Q8 comments there.

Hope this is a helpful idea.

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Robin2

Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2016, 11:57    Post subject:  

Thank you for the link. I have bookmarked it.

I find it difficult (with Google) to find stuff in this Forum and many of the Threads get very long which makes it almost impossible to find the relevant nugget of information within them. The Quirky 8 Thread already has over 240 posts.

...R
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 16 May 2016, 15:21    Post subject:  

Hi @Robin2, this was the wrong place to post a comment. Check your PMs.
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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue 17 May 2016, 19:33    Post subject:  

Quote:
first off for 32bit build from a 32bit install (i used tahrpup 6.0.5 for this test) and for 64bit build from a 64bit pup ie tahrpup64 (the very first tahrpup64 was built from slacko64)

I don't understand this, as it's not logical to me.

Need a 32bit Puppy running to build 32bit Puppy?
Need a 64bit Puppy running to build 64bit Puppy?
Tahr 64 build by using Slacko 64?

What was used to build Slacko 64?

And what was used to build the 64bit distro used to build Slacko 64?

And what was used to build the 64bit distro used to build the 64bit distro used to build Slacko 64?

And ... ... ... so on?

Any logical sequence in there?

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RSH

"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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