YaPI (yet another Puppy Installer) install any Puppy iso

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bigpup · #161 Post by **bigpup** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 03:02

Two big problems I see that need fixed (maybe).

1. Automatically starting Grub4dos.
It should offer to start Grub4dos, but give you the option.

2. Installing to USB flash stick
If you install to a USB flash drive the Puppy files are put in a directory.
That is OK, but a bootloader will need to be placed on the USB flash drive to be able to boot Puppy.

Now we are getting into different ways to install to a USB flash drive.

This is the other way it could be done if we can get the code into the program.

Puppy files just on the USB flash drive.
Use syslinux as a boot loader.

Look at how the Puppy Universal Installer does USB flash drive installs.
by just putting the Puppy files on the flash drive.
Using syslinux boot loader.
Installing syslinux.cfg

Something to work on or leave it the way it is.
Any ideas???

gcmartin · #162 Post by **gcmartin** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 03:44

I think the bootmanager issues might be a secondary. The whole UEFI problem is still being sorted and there is a real difference of opinions on what the BEST method might be that has survival ability into the near future. We are a decade further along on 64bit PCs and almost 5 years on UEFI systems transitionings as we endure the arguments of systemD vs "no systemD".

This problem is one which keeps Puppy Linux holding. @Shinobar introduced GRUB4DOS booting a very long time ago with his distro QuickSet, IIRC. And we have had a smatterings of GRUB2, GRUB, GRUB4DOS, Syslinux, etc with no clear identifiable direction or any coalescing around a single one.

In addition, @Rcrsn51 has done some work for boot management with his PeasyDisc and this; along with his work for booting ISOs, directly.

Further, @Gyro, @Puppyluvr and @Smokey01 has done great work with their solution for MultiPUP.

But, although I am unsure if this thread's effort will affect things, it sure would be nice if we could get any concurrence on a method for boot-management that would be consistently used across all PUPs so that we could have a boot-manager that is robust and a thread could surface to address and answer most questions that surface in booting. BUT THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THIS THREAD, I'm afraid.

Further, @ETP has appealed to the development community couple weeks ago for paying attention to the distros they deliver; namely HYBRIDs! And I can foresee that if the work that is completed here, generated hybrids, it would be a shot in the arm for developers as we move into the future and machines transistion from old BIOS PCs to modern energy saving machines which are UEFI based (just as 486s, P1s, P2s were prevalent when Puppy started, no one uses those today as better alternatives have been generally available, even on trash piles).

This thread's PUI, and the work that has been done, addresses many of the concerns that exists in understanding, functionality, ease of use, speed, etc.

I will continue to test whenever I can and provide any positive feedback on issues that I run into.

I recognize the complexity in this effort, as members contribute. And I applaud all who do.

I will do whatever I can to help, so, anything made available I am willing to provide feedback.

bigpup · #163 Post by **bigpup** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 04:47

Thanks gcmartin!

UEFI and booting is something this is not trying to fix.
I am not sure, at this time, what this will need to deal with the UEFI boot issue.

I will look at the info you have provided.

Always something

bigpup · #164 Post by **bigpup** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 04:50

2. Installing to USB flash stick
If you install to a USB flash drive the Puppy files are put in a directory.
That is OK, but a bootloader will need to be placed on the USB flash drive to be able to boot Puppy.

For now I modified Yapi to hopefully help deal with this.

I added this info to just before Grub4dos auto starts.

mavrothal · #165 Post by **mavrothal** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 05:23

I added this info to just before Grub4dos auto starts.

This is CODING!
Actually all you need to start coding is a little project that you really like. YaPI can be the one for you.
Now you just have to look in another script that uses the same utility but has ok/cancel options and adapt yours accordingly to call grub4dos.

Usually you can find a lot of examples in /usr/sbin or /usr/local
If in terminal you do "grep -sr Xdialog /usr/sbin/*" you'll see many examples.
But in tis case the Xdialog just above your change gives an example of how to handle --yesno options.
So you just need to move your Xdialog down before the grub4dos call and call grub4dos depending on the answer..
Puppy has dozens of Xdialog's that can serve as an example in your effort

Keep coding! (seriously)

bigpup · #166 Post by **bigpup** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 05:33

mavrothal, you seem to think I have a clue as to what I am doing.

Well .I am trying.

Thanks for the hand holding!!

bigpup · #167 Post by **bigpup** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 06:15

Just to show what this can do on a USB flash drive.
I have installed all of these Puppies.
Installed Grub4dos to the USB flash drive.
It boots to the Grub4dos boot menu
I can boot any of the Puppies by selecting from the boot menu

So, it lets you do multiple Puppy installs to one USB flash drive.
It does only do one single install each time you run Yapi.
So, I had to run Yapi several times to do this.

gcmartin · #168 Post by **gcmartin** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 07:32

Your multiple distro folder layout is similar to what is produced by MultiPUP utility.

I know this is NOT the scope of this thread, but I just wanted to highlight a similarity of a USB partition layout generated by a Puppy Utility I've seen before.

If MultiPUP has a batch (terminal) flavor, it could probably be fed an ISO (or IMG) and it will generate a bootable USB so that this PUI will not have to do that heavy lifting.

Just an idea.

bigpup · #169 Post by **bigpup** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 16:13

Thanks for the info gcmartin!

I will look at the Multipup and see how it does things.
Never can have too many Puppy programs.

This started as simply adding an option to the Puppy Universal Installer, but it turned into a completely new program.

Just wish someone with good Puppy coding skills would take over coding this thing.

L18L has decided to stop working on this.
So close to being 100%.
I do thank him for all he has done.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mavrothal has helped a lot and I thank him very much for the help.!!!!!
He is looking at what is being done and going "no I am not helping. Well, maybe just a little. That is it, no more help. Look at this. Do it this way. I am not helping anymore!
Well maybe"

I do understand he is trying to drag me into coding software and I do like to know more.
I just feel like I fell into the deep end of the pool and have no idea how to swim.

bigpup · #170 Post by **bigpup** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 19:48

New problem that needs to be corrected.

If you have a USB flash drive formatted in a Linux format.
You can do a full install on it.
You can install Grub4dos to the USB flash drive.
The drive will boot to a Grub4dos boot menu.
However, the boot process will hang with a bunch of kernel errors.

Not sure if something about Grub4dos boot entries or just having a full install on a USB flash drive.

Easy thing to do is just not allow full installs on USB flash drives. Only frugal.
Just got to figure out how to make that change.
If USB flash drive is formatted fat ,or ntfs only option offered is a frugal.

starhawk · #171 Post by **starhawk** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 20:21

I'm actually having a similar but different problem with an SDXC card. I need a full install to the card because it's the only way when things are going to hang, to get the log files in /var/log to persist.

What seems to be happening for me is that, since I don't have a new enough system to access SDXC cards, when I mount the 64gb card, the computer thinks it's an SDHC card -- max 32gb -- whoops! After that, if I try to boot from the card (back in its proper system) I get a lot of "no space left on device" errors that end in a kernel panic. After that, if I keep trying, it'll boot okay but it won't write anything to the card. (What?)

Kind of odd.

As for flash drives, I've never actually tried a full install to USB flash -- SD is sorta kinda similar but not really (different protocol) -- might be that the disk you're using, bigpup, just doesn't like full installs. Puppy and USB drives can have issues, I hear -- never had any myself, as such, but others on this forum have, and have reported it. IIRC the relevant thread is in Hardware.

gcmartin · #172 Post by **gcmartin** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 20:32

Hi @StarHawk

I tried to alert the community to this over a year ago.

SDXC is NOT designed for SD drive use. The firms who make these and who are involved in the standards, have stated this, and was the reasons I posted that knowledge with a pictorial to the community.

If you get anything reliable, feel good of what you get.

Other members may have found some ways to circumvent use of SDXC media in older PCs without the SDXC readers.

Update: Here's are ideas. It may NOT work at all and it may NOT be reliable for information and use of the media. Use at your own risk. I have not and will not test this configuration.

This may help you:
Idea1
Take your media to a PC/Library/store which has PC(s) with SDXC and running. Every PC OS on the planet has utilities for formating peripheral media. Insert your media and format 2 or more partitions where NONE of the formatted partitions are larger than 56GB.

Idea2
Try using GParted/Parted/Fdisk/cfdisk to partition your media into partitions none of which are larger than 56GB.

See if either of these will allow you use of your media, partition by partition, reliably on an older non-SDXC PC.

bigpup · #173 Post by **bigpup** » Wed 10 Feb 2016, 22:27

Not sure If I want to keep this option.
It is a very special way to install.

Yapi will offer to do a superfloppy type install to a USB flash drive.
Basically It will have no MBR or partitions. There will be just a plain file-system.
This is similar to the way a video DVD is formatted.
It is a iso9660 format.
You can look at the contents in, Rox file manager, like looking at what is on a video DVD.

I have tried it several times and it works.

Several issues.
Gparted sees it as unallocated space, but you can get Gparted to put a partition on it.
This partition will be the only one that is seen.
The Puppy files stay hidden in "unallocated" space.
If you do partition. Not sure what Puppy is going to use for storage.
Not sure what long term effects this will have on reusing the USB flash for something else.
You can reformat, but the Puppy files stay write protected and will not delete.
Need to test more.

bigpup · #174 Post by **bigpup** » Thu 11 Feb 2016, 05:31

Need some more testing to see if there are still any bugs.

bigpup · #175 Post by **bigpup** » Thu 11 Feb 2016, 20:07

With about 500 new views of this topic in one day.
Sure seems to be some interest in this project.

Anyone out there want to help

Need some more testing.

Could really use and need a Puppy coder to take over where L18L stopped.
Really down to just what exactly we want this to be able to do.

The big issues to decide yes or no to have.
1.Full install to a USB flash drive? (now does this , but has boot problems)

2.SuperFloppy type install to USB flash drive? (now does this)

3.Should USB flash drive installs be to a directory on the flash drive with Grub4dos used to boot it? (now does this)

4.Should USB flash drive installs be the Puppy files on the flash drive and syslinux used to boot it?

starhawk · #176 Post by **starhawk** » Thu 11 Feb 2016, 20:30

I would help if I could code

Just sayin'.

bigpup · #177 Post by **bigpup** » Thu 11 Feb 2016, 20:37

starhawk,

Thanks for at least looking at this.!

I would code if I could really understand what I am doing

Do need some more testing!!

Thanks!!!

starhawk · #178 Post by **starhawk** » Thu 11 Feb 2016, 21:44

Hey, I can sort of read bash (and, far less so, C) but the only language I can code in even close to properly is a positively antique dialect of BASIC. Not much help, then!

I need to learn bash, and I know it. I just can't seem to get off my fat duff and DO it...

bigpup · #179 Post by **bigpup** » Fri 12 Feb 2016, 05:06

I have disabled the extra button (SuperFloppy)

This thing will offer to SuperFloppy anything. Not good.
Troubleshooting.

For now if you click on the extra button it will close program.

Use this version of Yapi for testing.

slavvo67 · #180 Post by **slavvo67** » Sat 13 Feb 2016, 05:06

I'm in. I plan to do some testing over the weekend. This is one of those applications that the Woof-CE team should really focus on. In my opinion, if working correctly, it's in the top 5 of must have on your Puppy.

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YaPI (yet another Puppy Installer) install any Puppy iso