What might help Puppy

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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gcmartin

#21 Post by gcmartin »

I dont know if this is a help to the distro's users or to distro developers or to the community at large.

There are, IMHO, 2 items that typical system users look for. I whole-heartedly agree with EVERYTHING contributed by members on this thread aiming at the things that trigger human comfort and attractions. One of them is what has been commented on: Visually appealing. The other is OBVIOUS navigation leading to achievements....easily and simply.

In this community over the years, some of the membership would rather not have members present who have "lessor abilities than they possess, themselves". Kinda like "keep membership at an old-buddies club existence".

Others tho, as members here are commenting, have what appears to be a different view for member attractions and I agree. Everything we can do to make Puppy appealing and obvious will have a dramatic effect on any acceptance people, no matter their backgrounds, will lean for.

This is what I call the "FREE" position all humans gravitate in life. We want something for free, without any effort on our part to gain it. A system which seemingly provides this draw and also provides what is discussed captures people who then will gain a sense of control and reliance.

I have seen this countless times in my lifetime and this includes technology and OS development. (Anyone care to evaluate what occurred when Windows/Apple/Android moving from text base inferences to icon based ones.)

These items discussed here in this thread, drives that point home.

The next phases we move to will be crucial and will probably also look for ways to do the same things to make attractive and desirable.

I am not sure exactly how all of what is discussed, here in the thread, will manifest (maybe several manifestations), but I do know of at least 2 member which have made distros which embrace (depending on how one looks at it) the concepts for new manifestations in Puppy Linux.

The first was one provided by @StemSee in his Emsee series. He did 2 VERY UNIQUE things provided to this community:
  • Each virtual desktop had a complete and unique layout so that any user could choose which he likes or doesn't.
  • His distro allows any user to select if he wants 32bit boot or 64bit boot
The 2nd was provided just a few weeks ago by @RufWoof in his distro which affords multiple virtual desktop layouts

Lastly, many users are already reviewing the desktop management changes in current PUPs over the last 2 months.

Combining these is certainly a MAJOR task, but if it could address what is discussed here with the ease of use that these developers are trying to achieve for our understanding, PUPPY LInux is destined to make easy what is discussed, herein.

Hope this is helpful information to this group.

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eric52
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#22 Post by eric52 »

Thanks, gcmartin, for the pointers. As long as some of the major members keep an open embrace, it's actually all right for others to be insular. I find it amazing on various Linux sites how patient some experts can be with rather demanding dimwits. I don't find it at all distressing when others display that they are driven to distraction. In many ways Linux is a social experiment. Puppy takes this to an extreme. If you can afford no more than a blank disk, you can work with Puppy. That's about as free and egalitarian as you can get. Your point about navigational ease is a good one. Puppy strikes me as a reverse rube goldberg contraption - a strange design with too FEW parts that works in a puzzling manner. I find that appealing, but I work on a trial and error basis, and I don't care if I don't understand how it's working. Mainstreaming Puppy with traditional protocols would be a good idea. A more intuitive menu structure would be an easy place to start. One thing I think should be kept in mind: Puppy is a very popular distro with good reason, but as a niche distro, it will never be #1. It really doesn't matter what its standing is. It just needs to keep doing what it was meant to do
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LazY Puppy
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#23 Post by LazY Puppy »

gcmartin wrote:He did 2 VERY UNIQUE things provided to this community:

Each virtual desktop had a complete and unique layout so that any user could choose which he likes or doesn't.
Don't want to diminish the work of stemsee (joined: 27 Jun 2013), but this is simply NOT true. :idea:

There was already a Puppy (derivative) offering possibility to have different Layouts at the desktop: it was LazY Puppy 2.0.2-005, which has used the VarioMenu for this, which was created originally by SFR and der-schutzhund (German user, Teacher, using LazY Puppy at a German public School etc. you already should know this). 8)

I'm not sure about LazY Puppy 2.0.2-005 (middle of 2012, don't have a ISO at the moment to check this), but VSP-Puppy 101 (its SFS was created on 06.04.2013), which was a derivative of Three Headed Dog, was already able to connect these different layouts with its own desktop - and there were 30 desktops, because Openbox can handle virtual desktops up to 30. :shock:

One can check this out by downloading the ISO files from archive.org (just search it for RSH, LazY Puppy, VSP-Puppy or VSP Puppy). :D

Both Puppy Systems came with a default setup of different desktop layouts sorted in categories like: Audio, Graphics, Guides, Internet, Install (or Setup), Office, Video and so on. As French user oui lately mentioned: this has already found its way into a so called major distribution and is therefor adopted by the latest Lubuntu. The Image posted by oui (the first one) shows a/the VarioMenu adopted by Lubuntu. You can see it placed on top of the screenshot, presenting VarioMenu Categories like: Internet (activated), Work, Education, Fun und Preferences. 8) :shock: :D

As I said: don't want to diminish the work of stemsee. I'm just taking GNU/Puppy/Linux as Free like in Freedom and Free like in Free to tell about the Truth. :wink:

And if anyone would do a deeper look into LazY Puppy 2.0.2-005, one could find lots of Ideas etc. that are now somehow part of new WoofCE Puppies.
As Volhout once wrote:Dear 01micko,
... ... ...
Maybe it is sufficient to embrace R-S-H's lazypup architecture to keep a small basic puppy, and have a set of SFS's dynamically loadable under desktop buttons (click first time takes a little longer since the sfs loads on the fly, but successive times are blazing fast). Maybe it is sufficient to restructure the menu so it has 2 modes. Expert mode shows as is. User mode shows only entries that are interesting for end users. There are so many idea's. I admire your desktop templates. I always go to "minimal icons". Precise does not have that....
It is amazing that Barry favors JWM and there is no "desktop theme" tool.
... ... ...
idea's idea's ..... plenty.
Just some snippets of the complete forum post posted/taken from LazY Puppy Homepage under Comments.

Edit:
Original Post in Topic: The World has changed
RSH

"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) :lol:

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! :wink:

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rufwoof
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#24 Post by rufwoof »

gcmartin wrote:The 2nd was provided just a few weeks ago by @RufWoof in his distro which affords multiple virtual desktop layouts
I'm struggling still with making that multiple desktop fully functional gcmartin. Its the drive icons that are the stumbling block and I'm now wondering whether having those as a overlaid thing or in a pop-up tray menu button might be the better choice.

Basically puppy's desktop is just a xml file, a bit like a html file - textually described graphic content/attrangement, that xml file is called PuppyPin (/root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin). Currently any pup can have multiple desktops and drag/open windows on those separate desktops, its just the background (wallpaper) and icon arrangement/positions that remain static across all desktops. The simplest answer is to just have multiple copies of PuppyPin and change to that choice as each desktop is switched to. And that works fine, excepting the drive icons (sda1, sda2 ...etc can change (usb plugged in or removed etc)).

With different wallpapers and icon arrangements (and open windows) on each of the desktops, that opens up the opportunity to use desktops as a form of menu/content guide. Server start up or sfs load scripts perhaps on the first desktop, shutdown or reboot etc type icons on the last desktop ....etc. Having become familar with such multiple (different) desktops I find that to be my first port of call (for instance instead of 'naturally' going for menu, shutdown, shutdown, I now more naturally click the last desktop in the tray and click the shutdown icon on that desktop; Or for browser, desktop2 is activated and I've multiple choices (icons) on that; Word processing/spreadsheets etc ...desktop3 for me ...etc.).

I've been setting up all my pup's to also have open (no password) samba shares and vnc/rdp. That way from any one pup (or windows box) I can rdp (rdesktop) other PC's and have them running as a window, whilst samba file/folder sharing means that files can be dragged/dropped between boxes easily (windows filemanager etc.). Basically I have two 'routers' the primary cable modems router, with wireless etc served from that, and another router behind which all wired (ethernet) PC's are open to each other (samba, rdp). Between the two I have a puppy PC that is more or less open to the world (so can remote access from anywhere or dish up web content (web server), check local webcam's remotely ...etc.). That pup is plugged into the TV. With that arrangement you could be running puppy from a smartphone via RDP (RDP or VNC are commonly available apps for smatphones and comes as standard in Windows boxes), that displays to the TV ...etc. Or running Windows, but with one window being puppy (another PC that's being 'remote' controlled) - that has multiple windows (desktops).

Greater integration/interoperation (flexibility).

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rufwoof
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#25 Post by rufwoof »

It is amazing that Barry favors JWM and there is no "desktop theme" tool
With flexibility comes choice and there's 'too many' choices for any one single tool to work reliably.

Much of puppy learning experience in my case was spent on figuring out how to configure it. jwm theme, ctk theme, qt theme, font sizing globally and for particular choices ...etc. There are configuration settings all over the place and that can vary according to what you have installed (or not).

My take from that learning experience is to get all of jwm, gtk and qt 'themes' (colours and font sizes) all somewhat closely aligned to each other ... and then use global font size adjustments to scale those to the desired level. i.e. once I have a jwm theme with the approropriate font size/colours etc I like then I stick with that (or change the other jwm theme's to have similar font size). Otherwise a change of jwm theme can lead to menu font sizes being much bigger (smaller) than gtk or qt menu font sizes.

At its simplest level it doesn't seem too difficult a task to align the likes of /root/.config/Trolltech.conf (qt) with the themes in /root/.jwm/themes (jwm) and /root/.gtkrc-2.0 (or whatever gtk version). But with flexibility (adding themes etc), comes complexity (unless you adopt/impose 'standards').

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eric52
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#26 Post by eric52 »

@LazY - I downloaded LASSIE, when I couldn't find last year's CD (must be down too deep in the piles). Still a very cool concept. Did a frugal install into plenty of space for SFS files. Had a heck of time getting a save file started - it would go through the process and not create one. ext2 got the furthest with a sanity check, but still no file. Finally, I booted from a disk and got it to work. Saving fine now. Updated package manager and switched to the old clock background - all good, and I don't have to tell it what country it's in anymore. I'm looking forward to working with the VarioMenu. The scripting tools look very inviting. It's like a development playground for non-developers. Thanks again for building it!
Today only. Anger not. Worry not. Be grateful working karma. Be kind.

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torm
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#27 Post by torm »

Hello again!
Just an idea, not a feature request.

Hardware diagnostics kit:
- display voltage from BIOS (+5V / 12V /...) realtime, with system full load
- display S.M.A.R.T. for harddrive (bad sector detection @MB=* would be a candy)
- compare hardware list to hardware "blacklist"(if known for issues with *nix or Puppy)
- list critical hardware features (CPU/GPU/RAM/..) if any good,
maybe even dumb-user "semaphor" Good/Usable/Drop-it style
(last-one can be some combination/extension of already included -like PSI, etc)

Picked up this voltage thing on someone elses request,
then I think it makes sense..
Most *nix PCs are not brand-new, and sometimes there's a reanson why those hit the aftermarket,
and sometimes not a pleasant-one ...
I'm not a programmer so I've no idea how difficult it can be to make a thing like
this, but I think it may be possible.

For now I use Hiren'sBootCD to track down serious problems and run Puppy "live" to see if
everything works as expected, once corrected.

I don't really know if it's the right place to post it...
Hope it's any use.
:wink:

starhawk
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#28 Post by starhawk »

@torm -- PSU, power supply unit, is the acronym I think you're looking for as far as voltage is concerned ;) not sure if there's a sensor for that in a computer, as such (there may be for the CPU's vreg output, but that's different, as that can often be adjusted from the BIOS setup/options menu at boot).

Please do wiki up the term "BIOS" -- it is a critical part of the computer, and you should get to know it better ;) but it has no relationship whatsoever to the power supply...

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torm
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#29 Post by torm »

:roll:
BIOS is somewhat different for every PC model
Some of them (desktop PC) BIOS-es have voltage realtime provided, some don't.
w32 programs like SisoftSandra/Everest/... can pick it up from BIOS and display it.
Yeah, one can read these at boot-time (del/f2/.. to access) but that will show
only without real system load (graphics accelerator not full active, etc)..


Puppy already can display CPU/GPU temperatures and CPU voltage :wink:

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