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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Why no Save Icon on Desktop when running from CD?
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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linuxwannabe

Joined: 02 May 2015
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 16:15    Post subject:  Why no Save Icon on Desktop when running from CD?  

I recently installed puppy on a usb stick, the desktop show's a pupsave icon, but on the cd version there's no save icon on the desktop. Why not? The usb pup's save file is on the pen drive, the cd's save file is on the computer's hard drive.
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unicorn316386

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 208
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 16:37    Post subject:  

You might find this post and thread a good start

How to force PUPMODE 13 (flash drive) when using hd install
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4297
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 16:54    Post subject:  

1. When the pupsave file is on a Flash Drive...
Special arrangements are included in Puppy Linux...
So as to prevent the wearing out of the Flash Drive...
By too frequently writing to it.
This places a "Save..." icon on the desktop [to be able to click it to save manually during the session].
And the user can also goto and SET "Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager>Save session>Save interval = 0" to disable-session-auto-saving.

2. This can also be done when booting from a "live" optical disk, with a pupsave on the internal HDD, as follows:
To edit the isolinux.cfg file within a Puppy ISO file [used to make the "live" Puppy optical disk], so as to make the Puppy treat its pupsave on a HDD as though it were a pupsave on a Flash Drive.

Also:
3. There are a couple of ways to be given the choice at shutdown/reboot "to save or not to save".
a. In newer Puppies, there is a tick-box included in "Puppy Event Manager" to be given the choice.

Or...
b. Here's an even older [and really good] method I've used for a long time.
And...
Further clarification of the instructions immediately above.

c. Doing BOTH [(1 or 2) + 3] means you can CHOOSE...
Not to save at any time...
OR...
When to save.

Last edited by Sylvander on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 21:02; edited 1 time in total
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1264
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 18:00    Post subject:  

+1 Sylvander

PupSaving is a very powerful tool. Today's USB sticks are more robust than those sticks of even a few years ago. And they're cheaper. In short, don't be too afraid to journal (rewrite) them. However, learn how to conserve rewriting them... PupSave is a good one, as well as configuring your Office programs to not make backups automatically unless you close the program.

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2016, 20:18    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
1. When the pupsave file is on a Flash Drive...
Special arrangements are included in Puppy Linux...
So as to prevent the wearing out of the Flash Drive...
By too frequently writing to it.
This places a "Save..." icon on the desktop [to be able to click it to save manually during the session].
And the user can also goto and SET "Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager>Save session>Save interval = 0" to disable-session-auto-saving.

2. This can also be done when booting from a "live" optical disk, with a pupsave on the internal HDD, as follows:
To edit the isolinux.cfg file within a Puppy ISO file [used to make the "live" Puppy optical disk], so as to make the Puppy treat its pupsave on a HDD as though it were a pupsave on a Flash Drive.

Also:
3. There are a couple of ways to be given the choice at shutdown/reboot "to save or not to save".
a. In newer Puppies, there is a tick-box included in "Puppy Event Manager" to be given the choice.

Or...
b. Here's an even older [and really good] method I've used for a long time.
And...
Further clarification of the instructions immediately above.

c. Doing BOTH [(1 or 2) + 3] means you can CHOOSE...
Not to save at any time...
OR...
When to save.

BUT! Be aware that Puppy can still write to the save file even though you think it's set up to never do so without manually making a save. Some of its internals are such that it will write to the savefile/folder even if all of the user settings are set to not do so !!! Which means that what you believe might be a clean savefile/folder has in practice become unclean ... and might even cause unwanted/undesired behaviour.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4297
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2016, 20:56    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
BUT! Be aware that Puppy can still write to the save file even though you think it's set up to never do so without manually making a save. Some of its internals are such that it will write to the savefile/folder even if all of the user settings are set to not do so !!! Which means that what you believe might be a clean savefile/folder has in practice become unclean ... and might even cause unwanted/undesired behaviour.

Woa...I didn't know that! Sad
Can you give more detail?
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Moat


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 766
Location: Mid-mitten, USA

PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2016, 21:47    Post subject:  

Indeed, I recall that .pets are installed directly to the savefile (layer). BarryK explained why somewhere here on the forum (??). So - on a frugal install w/savefile, if you install a .pet and exit/re-boot without saving... the previous session's installed-and-not-saved .pet/application will still be there... fully installed and ready to go. That's what I see running "pupmode 13", anyway.

Best way around that I've found is to backup the savefile using the Pupsave Hot Backup utility before installing/testing .pets, and revert to the backup if things go all fubar. Un-installing with PPM should also work fine, but I'm always a bit leary of what un-desired litter might be left behind.

Bob
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Tue 02 Feb 2016, 01:20    Post subject:  

I haven't the exact detail to hand, but if you look at petget that calls something like installpet.sh (or something like that) which writes direct to the savefile/folder space. So as Moat said if you boot thinking that the savefile is unaffected by testing out a pet, shutdown without opting to save, your savefile/folder will have been altered.

I've switched over to DebianDog (I opted for Jessie xfce/openbox (rather than jwm, as I'd never used xfce/openbox before) as that keeps the savefolder ('changes' folder as DD calls it) clean and only writes to that as/when you opt to write to it (save changes).

I believe that the savefolder space is also changed after each reboot as part of 'normal practice', perhaps something like a number of times booted count or whatever ???
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4297
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 02 Feb 2016, 12:22    Post subject:  

@Moat

1. "Indeed, I recall that .pets are installed directly to the savefile (layer). BarryK explained why somewhere here on the forum (??). So - on a frugal install w/savefile, if you install a .pet and exit/re-boot without saving... the previous session's installed-and-not-saved .pet/application will still be there... fully installed and ready to go. That's what I see running "pupmode 13", anyway."
a. I don't use the "pupmode=13" method; what I do is edit the isolinux.cfg file [in the iso used to burn the CD-RW] to make pmedia=ataflash.
b. I routinely install using pet files, and then choose to "not save" the session changes, and at the following session the installed item is always GONE. [e.g. It disappears from the PPM and the Menu etc]
I'll test this again ASAP and report back.
c. I don't run "Frugal Installs" but rather "live" installs [booting a CD-RW (with modified isolinux.cfg), with a pupsave on the internal HDD].

@rufwoof
I'm no exxpert, so forgive me if I say stupid stuff, but...

2. "if you look at petget that calls something like installpet.sh (or something like that) which writes direct to the savefile/folder space."
a. I carefully studied the code content of the file /usr/local/petget/petget, and could find nothing referring to installpet.sh, nor anything else that would increase my knowledge on this topic.
b. Using Pfind, to search ALL files, and searching for installpet.sh, nothing is found. [This is within Slacko-5.7.0-pae]
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 12699
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 02 Feb 2016, 12:25    Post subject:  

I just run Puppy from a multisession DVD and forget the whole thing. Laughing
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4297
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 02 Feb 2016, 12:51    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
I just run Puppy from a multisession DVD and forget the whole thing. Laughing

It's a very tempting thought, but...
I use a multisession DVD-RW of Tahr-6.0-ce-pae for online banking, however...
It is very slow to load.
Wouldn't want to use anything that slow for normal usage.
And I need something that's EASY/quick to update if/when I need to update.
SO...
I thought I'd try a Puppy that boots from a Flash Drive...
Where the Flash Drive can be un-plugged once booted to the desktop.
e.g. Puli.
I'd like to work without an internal HDD [or any permanently connected storage], but...
I'm put off by the work involved in making all the necessary changes.
e.g. I'd lose Windows completely, and my Family Tree program is installed on it.

Which reminds me...
I need my wife to type a 2016 Calendar.
She would normally do that using Word within Windows.
Tried [to edit an existing Calendar doc file] using LibreOffice-3.5.7_en-GB_xz.sfs loaded on-the-fly, and when she tried to save the result, it wouldn't; all the work was LOST.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 4297
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Wed 03 Feb 2016, 11:53    Post subject:  

TEST

@Moat & rufwoof

1. I installed simple-remaster.pet, and it appeared in PPM & Menu->Utility...

2. Rebooted without savint the changes...

3. Once back to the desktop, there was no sign of it in PPM & Menu->Utility.
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Moat


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 766
Location: Mid-mitten, USA

PostPosted: Thu 04 Feb 2016, 00:28    Post subject:  

Sylvander - Yes, I'm thinking this behavior of "saving when not saved" is likely a characteristic (exclusive?) of pupmode=13, and even then, possibly only with certain .pets in certain Pups (Precice 5.7.1 retro, in my case) - as it appears the details/behavior of the different pupmodes have been tweaked/changed @ Woof level quite a bit over the years, when searching and reading old posts on the subject. Looks like you're safe, using pmedia=ataflash.

Then again, I've installed/uninstalled and tweaked a lot of thing in this many-times-remastered Precise, so mine's probably not a very good example anyway!

I wish I could find those specific thread/posts of Barry's that helped to clear some of these things up... but no luck, so far. Confused

Bob
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