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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Installing Retro in frugal mode; how to edit Grub?
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pcpunk

Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec 2015, 21:59    Post subject:    

Need help guys, stuck in the middle of installing Retro in Frugal Mode onto separate partition and it is asking me to Edit Grub or something and don't know what to do. This is not as easy as it was all said to be?

Can't find the Grub file it is asking me to edit!!! Now if I shut down don't know if I will be able to boot anything?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11375
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 21 Dec 2015, 12:57    Post subject:  

What you need is a boot loader installed that will have a boot menu listing the operating systems on the computer.
Grub4dos Bootloader is the best one to use with Puppy.

If you do have Windows 8, 8.1 or 10 on the computer.
I am not sure how well Grub4dos bootloader will work with them.
Here is some info to read:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=100422


Dual booting with other versions of Windows or Linux should be fine.

I assume you are doing this by running Puppy Precise from a live Precise CD or USB.

Close the installer.

Still running from the Live Precise CD or USB.
Run the Program: menu->System->Grub4dos Bootloader config.
Just use the default settings.
It will find all installed operating systems.
Making a boot menu (listing all)

Now boot not using the live CD or USB.
Should see a boot menu with options to select from.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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pcpunk

Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec 2015, 15:23    Post subject:  

Sorry but I was in panic mode.

OS's installed:
XP, Mint Xfce 17.2 and now hopefully puppy precise retro.

Have already created 4.21gb Partition.

I chose to install in Frugal, but think I might do Full Install as the Frugal caused me problems, or something else did, suggestions?

To do a Frugal Install like this how would I proceed?

I will take another look at the Install instructions here. Okay, I did, and now more confused. I just want a Tutorial doing this with the setup I have, can anyone point me to this?
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Galbi


Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1055
Location: Bs.As. - Argentina.

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec 2015, 18:55    Post subject:  

When your machine boots, can you choose between XP or Mint?
if you answer yes, so there is a great chance you already have a bootloader installed.

So now you have to choose if keeping that bootloader or if installing a new one that comes with Puppy.

But before that, you've mentioned something about panic mode, is that machine used for work or something like that?

Dealing with bootloaders there is a risk in ending in a non-bootable system, not broken and fixable. Be cautious.

Saludos.

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 13156
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec 2015, 19:26    Post subject:  

You edit Grub from the keyboard, in a text editor. Wink
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11375
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec 2015, 20:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
I chose to install in Frugal, but think I might do Full Install as the Frugal caused me problems, or something else did, suggestions?

General statements like this do not help anyone.
What problems?
You do what?
You see what?

By what you have said you have Precise installed.
You are probably using the bootloader that Mint installed.
You have to put an entry for Precise, in it, or install a different bootloader.

I told you how to install the bootloader that comes with Puppy.
Grub4dos bootloader.
If you do that, you should have a boot menu that will have entries for XP, Mint, and Prercise Puppy.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2838
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec 2015, 21:44    Post subject: Maybe Full Install -- Let Mint Xfce 17.2 rebuild Grub  

Hi pcpunk,

Much as I really don't like Full Installs, in your case I'd recommend it. As you have both XP and Mint Xfce 17,2, my guess is you started with XP and installed Mint. If so, When you installed Mint, it automatically installed Grub2 and made that the bootloader. When you now boot your computer, you get a Menu giving you the choice of whether to boot into Mint or XP.

There's a problem with Grub2. It doesn't automatically recognize Frugal installs as being operating systems to be listed on its menu. It is possible to edit Grub2 to add Frugal Installs as options on a Grub2 Menu. However, from time to time Linux Mint -- and most other Linuxes-- "upgrade". When it does, it updates or re-writes Grub2 wiping out your manual edits, and you have to do them all over again.

You can, as suggested, select Grub4dos during Puppy's installation. Grub4dos will recognize both XP and Mint and create boot Menu entries for them. But when Mint next updates itself, it will update Grub2 overwriting Grub4dos and once again you'll be left without access to your Frugal Pup.

Work-arounds: (1) Use Grub4dos but keep a USB-Key installed Pup or a Pup CD/DVD so that after Grub2 takes over you computer, you can easily boot into Pup and reinstall Grub4dos as your bootloader. (2) After manually editing Grub2, make a copy of Grub2's Menu.lst --especially those parts concerning Puppy-- and store it in your Mint Documents folder. This will make it easier to again edit Grub2 after its been updated.

My apologies. I don't have either a sample Menu.lst for Grub2, or a reference to webpages which spell out how to include Frugal Pups to it. Perhaps someone else could provide them.

The only computer I have which uses Grub2 as bootloader has Manjaro on a Partition. Manjaro is one of only a couple of Linux Distros Grub4dos doesn't recognize. But that computer sits on a shelf. I have USB-Stick Pups to re-install Grub4dos on the computers I actually use.

The above is basically why I suggest a Full Install but skip (if possible) Pup's routine for installing any bootloader. Boot back into Mint and use its Grub2 to re-build its Menu. Perhaps Mint's Grub2 will recognize a Full Install Pup as an OS and create an entry for it. If not, at least you'll know where you will stand the next time Mint's Grub2 is updated.

Except for the paragraph just above this, what I wrote is from experience. I think I recall years ago trying out some Linuxes which would install and gave you the option not to install a bootloader. But nothing recent. I've also tried running synaptic and completely removing Grub2. The next update reinstalled it. If anyone knows of a way avoid or get rid of a Major distro's Grub I'd like to know.

mikesLr
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pcpunk

Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec 2015, 13:57    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
I chose to install in Frugal, but think I might do Full Install as the Frugal caused me problems, or something else did, suggestions?

General statements like this do not help anyone.
What problems?
You do what?
You see what?

By what you have said you have Precise installed.
You are probably using the bootloader that Mint installed.
You have to put an entry for Precise, in it, or install a different bootloader.

I told you how to install the bootloader that comes with Puppy.
Grub4dos bootloader.
If you do that, you should have a boot menu that will have entries for XP, Mint, and Prercise Puppy.


I understand, but have done so much don't know what to post now. Did not think the directions for windows 8 would be good for me and I installed and configured Grub2 so many times I got tired. I was Editing the 40_custom file.

I was trying to do Frugal, and Edit Grub2 with these instructions: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/579574/how-to-install-puppy-linux-frugal-and-configure-grub2-bootloader/

1. So, it is Okay to use the Grub4dos Bootloader, got it...but...is this how I should proceed if I have Grub2 with Mint? Wouldn't it be better to use Grub2?

2. Would be nice to find one good Tutorial for my setup, have looked all over but they are all to complicated when they should not be.

Okay bigpup, this seems really easy, I will try this way if I don't hear about using Grub2 is better:
Also need to reply to the other post that looked very informative!

"Close the installer.

Still running from the Live Precise CD or USB.
Run the Program: menu->System->Grub4dos Bootloader config.
Just use the default settings.
It will find all installed operating systems.
Making a boot menu (listing all)"
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pcpunk

Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec 2015, 14:11    Post subject: Re: Maybe Full Install -- Let Mint Xfce 17.2 rebuild Grub  

mikeslr wrote:
Hi pcpunk,

Much as I really don't like Full Installs, in your case I'd recommend it. As you have both XP and Mint Xfce 17,2, my guess is you started with XP and installed Mint. If so, When you installed Mint, it automatically installed Grub2 and made that the bootloader. When you now boot your computer, you get a Menu giving you the choice of whether to boot into Mint or XP.

There's a problem with Grub2. It doesn't automatically recognize Frugal installs as being operating systems to be listed on its menu. It is possible to edit Grub2 to add Frugal Installs as options on a Grub2 Menu. However, from time to time Linux Mint -- and most other Linuxes-- "upgrade". When it does, it updates or re-writes Grub2 wiping out your manual edits, and you have to do them all over again.

You can, as suggested, select Grub4dos during Puppy's installation. Grub4dos will recognize both XP and Mint and create boot Menu entries for them. But when Mint next updates itself, it will update Grub2 overwriting Grub4dos and once again you'll be left without access to your Frugal Pup.

Work-arounds: (1) Use Grub4dos but keep a USB-Key installed Pup or a Pup CD/DVD so that after Grub2 takes over you computer, you can easily boot into Pup and reinstall Grub4dos as your bootloader. (2) After manually editing Grub2, make a copy of Grub2's Menu.lst --especially those parts concerning Puppy-- and store it in your Mint Documents folder. This will make it easier to again edit Grub2 after its been updated.

My apologies. I don't have either a sample Menu.lst for Grub2, or a reference to webpages which spell out how to include Frugal Pups to it. Perhaps someone else could provide them.

The only computer I have which uses Grub2 as bootloader has Manjaro on a Partition. Manjaro is one of only a couple of Linux Distros Grub4dos doesn't recognize. But that computer sits on a shelf. I have USB-Stick Pups to re-install Grub4dos on the computers I actually use.

The above is basically why I suggest a Full Install but skip (if possible) Pup's routine for installing any bootloader. Boot back into Mint and use its Grub2 to re-build its Menu. Perhaps Mint's Grub2 will recognize a Full Install Pup as an OS and create an entry for it. If not, at least you'll know where you will stand the next time Mint's Grub2 is updated.

Except for the paragraph just above this, what I wrote is from experience. I think I recall years ago trying out some Linuxes which would install and gave you the option not to install a bootloader. But nothing recent. I've also tried running synaptic and completely removing Grub2. The next update reinstalled it. If anyone knows of a way avoid or get rid of a Major distro's Grub I'd like to know.

mikesLr


Thanks that is some good advice!

"""(2) After manually editing Grub2, make a copy of Grub2's Menu.lst --especially those parts concerning Puppy-- and store it in your Mint Documents folder. This will make it easier to again edit Grub2 after its been updated."""

I don't believe Grub2 uses the "Menu.lst" anymore, it uses custom_40 or something. But yes, this is the way I would like to go. I will do the Grub4dos if needed.

I also tried a Full Install like you were thinking but Grub2 did not recognize and I could not execute the Grub custom_40 edit.

Looked all over youtube etc. for a simple way to do this, as bigpup has pointed out Grub4dos looks to be simple as can be, and that is what I need.[/b][/i]
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theru

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Heers, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec 2015, 16:22    Post subject:  

No idea if this will work for your setup:

http://puppylinux.org/main/Download%20Latest%20Release.htm#winEXE

If I understand it right then this method doesn't require any changes to grub2 or the mbr.
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pcpunk

Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Thu 24 Dec 2015, 17:00    Post subject:  

Used Grub4dos, don't like it very well but it's done and can start using it. I will explore more with Grub2 soon as I like that one best, and don't want puppy to be first on Boot nor on sda1. Thanks to bigpup!!!
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11375
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 25 Dec 2015, 01:05    Post subject:  

Quote:
don't want puppy to be first on Boot nor on sda1

You can install Puppy to any location.

You can move the entries on the menu by editing the menu.lst and menu-advanced.lst files.
menu.lst is the first page of the menu.
menu-advanced.lst is the advanced menu.
The first entry in the menu.lst boots automatically.
Just cut and paste the entries to the location you want them in the menu.

In a file manager find the file menu.lst.
It is probably just in the top layer of sda1.
Left click on it and it will open in a text editor.

Cut, paste, change names, move entries around, delete entries, etc.....

Just be careful what you change.
Use some common sense about it.

If you really get it messed up. You can always just rerun Grub4dos bootloader config.

Example:
This is the entry to boot Tahrpup 6.0.3

# menu.lst produced by grub4dosconfig-v1.9
color white/blue black/cyan white/black cyan/black
#splashimage=/splash.xpm
timeout 10
default 0

# Frugal installed Puppy

title Tahrpup 6.0.3 (sda8) full
uuid 4c67b98f-8983-4474-a84d-dfc203c56e43
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda8 ro

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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pcpunk

Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Fri 25 Dec 2015, 12:55    Post subject:  

Thanks bigpup, been exploring all those files. Very confusing to me but an't quiting yet. I see that menu.lst is on sda1 as you said, but in some of the instructions it keeps saying to install grub to a linux partition so was confused as to why it is there? it's all either very confusing or poorly written.

Does the menu.lst exist before Grub4dos, or did Grub4dos create it?

So all I need to do is Edit menu.lst, or do I need to edit both menu.lst and menu-advanced.lst files?

Also having issues with installing Firefox from Quickpet, among other things.
"You do not have enough space to install Firefox"
Probably because have not setup things properly as it is all Greek to me at this point. Does this have something to do with not having a Save Folder yet? I am using a 4.21 ext4 Partition, can I look to see if I got a Save Folder...or go ahead and just make one on next shutdown? Sorry for all the novice questions but I find the documentation not so good, or just over my head.

I did notice that it says that I have a Frugal Install in menu.lst, that's good as I was unsure at one point lol.

Really wanted to install Tahrpup and tried your instructions to append =nox or something to that effect, but it did not work. Did what the instructions said to no avail.

Also, can't log into this site via. Dillo? Get a warning saying "this page uses non-standard meta refresh tags, and something to do with HTML?

Happy Holidays!!
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11375
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 25 Dec 2015, 15:07    Post subject:  

Do not feel bad about asking questions.
We were all like you at one time.
Puppy is new to even old time Linux users Shocked

Learn you must Laughing

Quote:
Does the menu.lst exist before Grub4dos, or did Grub4dos create it?

Grub4dos created it.
Quote:
So all I need to do is Edit menu.lst, or do I need to edit both menu.lst and menu-advanced.lst files?

That is up to you and what you want to see in the boot menu.
menu.lst is the main boot menu.
menu-advanced.lst is optional ways to boot. (actually look at it to see what is there)
Quote:
"You do not have enough space to install Firefox"
Probably because have not setup things properly as it is all Greek to me at this point. Does this have something to do with not having a Save Folder yet? I am using a 4.21 ext4 Partition, can I look to see if I got a Save Folder...or go ahead and just make one on next shutdown?

You need to do the first shutdown so you are offered to make a save file or save folder.
Anything you add will be stored in the save file/folder.
In a frugal install that is the data storage location.
If the partition is formatted in a Linux format (ext 2, 3, or 4) you can make a save folder or save file.
If the partition is formatted in a Windows format (fat32, ntfs)
You can only make a save file.
Quote:
Also, can't log into this site via. Dillo?

Dillo browser is very basic.
It is mainly in Puppy to be able to access help and doc documents, before you get a better browser installed.

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11375
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 25 Dec 2015, 15:24    Post subject:  

Quote:
some of the instructions it keeps saying to install grub to a linux partition so was confused as to why it is there? it's all either very confusing or poorly written.

Sometimes too much information is a bad thing.
It is trying to tell you. To be able to boot Puppy, you need a boot loader installed with an entry to boot Puppy.
You could install Grub, Grub4dos, or already have a bootloader installed, that would need modified with an entry for Puppy.
The Puppy installer does not know what you have, so gives options in the form of information statements.

This was talked about in the past.
Should the Puppy installer just take over the computer and automatically install a bootloader?
Tell you what still needs to be done?
What?
As you have seen. automatically installing a bootloader was not an option chosen.

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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