Download, install and USB is confusing...

[Salty-san]

Been meaning to get into lightweight distros for a while and I need to work on some old comps too and I just heard many things about Puppy. Also looking to recover some datas and such...

But right off the bat it's really weird. I mean I know the official sites but all the Pup versions, which to try, which to us eand ilbido download page is confusing. At first I thought the .pet were the distros but seems not. I see the .iso files, but I tried making one before and it failed to boot. I used Rufus.

So the download page is pretty confusing, not sure what to go for, and where some of the claimed versions are, and how do I make a USB for a live system into an install, if possible. I also have UNetbootin...

[ally]

machine specs?

[Fossil]

Salty-san. Welcome to the forum. Yes, I agree, there is a lot of choice and some areas of downloads do cause confusion. Before we get too far ahead of the objective, can I please ask you a simple series of questions: What are your computer's specifications? All we need to know is processor speed, memory, video and anything else which might be relevant to getting you up and running. Until the computer's speed and memory is known it is very difficult to give any advice on which Puppy can be run; "Old Comp'" could mean anything. Can we assume you have been/are using Windows?
Next, please read the forums 'How-to's' on downloading a Puppy ISO and either burning it to a disc or installing via Unetbootin or a similar loader. If you intend to burn an .ISO to a CD, and you are using Windows, might I suggest you download BurnCDCC as your burner; it has only one function - which prevents any mistakes. http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downlo ... ftware.htm

[Mike Walsh]

Hi, Salty-san. And welcome to the kennels.

I see you found your way over here, then. You'll find we're a good deal more informal than the Ubuntu Forums crowd! Not quite such sticklers for propriety, neither, nor everything being 'just so'...

This is the right place to make enquiries about Puppy. Anything you want to know, just ask; the boys & girls on here should be able to help you out.

Back to you, Fossil..!


Mike.

[Salty-san]

Right, well I didn't say anything more because I am talking broadly here. First I intend to use it as live and install for different machines maybe so yeah...Secondly, this one old comp I want to test it on first is so old that it needs a small distro it seems, and I can't even get into it to find out its specs...I know it told me at point in Kernel that it has only 189 RAM available. And just one HDD of under 40GB, formatted it in NTFS.

I actually started a topic just for the machine here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2305049 for just about all the details I can get...Oh and hi there, Mike, was writing this before you posted. ;p

Also I can not make a CD/DVD at this point...So just USBs.

[Fossil]

Salty-san. If the hard drive is formatted as NTFS; are you running Windows on that machine? What variant - '95, '98, XP? If not, is the hard drive empty of any other operating system? Puppy is doable with 198 megs of RAM; but it won't be the newest offering, and it will be a memory squeeze. You mentioned other computers: is there any chance of borrowing a spare memory module to up the overall RAM capacity?
A swap-partition or,failing that a swap-file, might give a little bit of added leeway. More on that later.
Are you sure the USB ports work okay? I'm hoping they are the 2.0 series - the original 1.0's were very slow for a USB boot.
You replied on the Ubuntu forum that you got Hiren's to boot: Was this via USB or a CD? Is the CD functional? If so, would/could anyone burn you a CD of Puppy? This would save a lot of messing around.
Perhaps a two-stage approach would be the best: Get the computer up and running using a very low memory overhead Puppy distro then, once proven as a runner, move on to more recent release.

No doubt Mike will chip-in. Over to you...., Mike!

[mikeslr]

Secondly, this one old comp I want to test it on first is so old that it needs a small distro it seems, and I can't even get into it to find out its specs...I know it told me at point in Kernel that it has only 189 RAM available. And just one HDD of under 40GB, formatted it in NTFS.
...
Also I can not make a CD/DVD at this point...So just USBs.

Emphasis added.

Testing is one thing. Creating either a bootable CD/DVD or USB-key is another. Is the computer which has only 189 RAM the most powerful computer you have to work with? If not, I suggest you use the most powerful computer you can to "burn" a Puppy ISO to a USB-key or CD/DVD and then test that USB-Pup or CD/DVD-Pup on your old computer.

Since you tried rufus, I take it that somehow you have access to a computer which runs Windows, at least the XP version. I've had problems trying to create a bootable USB-Key with rufus. Don't know why. Other's swear by it.

have never had a problem burning an ISO to a USB-stick using LinuxLiveUSB Creator. You'll find it here: http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5488- ... eator.html. You can find a tutorial on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMLSpBdRec

Using LinuxLiveUSB Creator, the only thing you want to be certain about is not to select the wrong “drive

[Mike Walsh]

@Fossil:-

Moi? 'My lips are sealed...'

Wouldn't dream of interrupting the master at work...!

As you were. Don't mind little ol' me! (*hee,hee*) Anyway, somebody's gotta take over from MikeB; he's left quite a large vacuum behind...


Mike.

[Fossil]

@ Mike Walsh.

....somebody's gotta take over from MikeB; he's left quite a large vacuum behind...

Wouldn't happen to be a Dyson, would it? If so, please send around immediately along with a French maid and a feather duster! That way I'd be well and tickled, all 'ship-shape and Bristol fashion'! Sorry, British humour! You walked into that one, matey! Arrgh!

And now, back to the topic in hand!

[s243a]

One thing that helped me to make sure that I got a good iso burn was to burn at the lowest speed possible. I think that on windows, if your system is really sluggish than a faster burn speed might get interrupted by background processes and cause errors. However, as mentioned above, trying a different burn program my be helpful. If you are using windows 8 and above then the windows operating system can burn the iso for you.

The puppylinux wiki mentions two free iso burning programs:
http://puppylinux.com/download/

I haven't tried either of them. I forget which program I used when I burned my first puppy iso.

[Salty-san]

Woah, well thanks for all the nice input guys. )...I guess I was kinda lazy with the details or assuming everyone reads everything so I can for real do this now. I just find it easier to casually open topics sometimes than to go straight into it...

Salty-san. If the hard drive is formatted as NTFS; are you running Windows on that machine? What variant - '95, '98, XP? If not, is the hard drive empty of any other operating system? Puppy is doable with 198 megs of RAM; but it won't be the newest offering, and it will be a memory squeeze. You mentioned other computers: is there any chance of borrowing a spare memory module to up the overall RAM capacity?
A swap-partition or,failing that a swap-file, might give a little bit of added leeway. More on that later.
Are you sure the USB ports work okay? I'm hoping they are the 2.0 series - the original 1.0's were very slow for a USB boot.
You replied on the Ubuntu forum that you got Hiren's to boot: Was this via USB or a CD? Is the CD functional? If so, would/could anyone burn you a CD of Puppy? This would save a lot of messing around.
Perhaps a two-stage approach would be the best: Get the computer up and running using a very low memory overhead Puppy distro then, once proven as a runner, move on to more recent release.

No doubt Mike will chip-in. Over to you...., Mike!

Well first thing first, and to reply to all: obviously I have more machines to work with, but this comp is posing problems purely on a hardware level it seems. I have the tools, just no idea what's wrong with it, hence the post. My plan too was to get anything running on it, OS wise, and then see how far I can upgrade. So far I got nothing <,<...

There were also advices about opening it up and cleaning, reseting RAM and other such maintenance things I have yet to do, I should get on that first. And from then on the details you guys want to know...

It's so old it has a Floppy drive <,<...It was a leftover from company stock like in 2005 or so in this country, so doubt it's pretty high tech. Probably USB 1.0 then, which might be why it causes problems on USB boot and why I got advices about cleaning it?

It had two botched Windows XP installs on it that were corrupted or whatever, it was used like that too and when I got it, and it had some data on it. I saw in it on Hiren...But I later formatted the entire partition NTFS, can do it in any way I want.

So far it only managed to boot on USB into Multi Boots, and from Hiren into Minix XP (with various memory errors while I was in it) and Parted Magic (but I had to use no graphic RAM settings or something, so it was looking really botchy)....But also booted it into Live Win XP USB, those Barte PE enviroments. And that's about it, over 5 types of Linuxes on the other hand failed at Kernel and unpacking mostly. The only thing it could boot into was Damn Small Linux, but I can't do a damn thing with it. Also, it didn't seem able to mount the HDD, which was weird.

I guess I can make CD/DVDs but old desktop doesn't seem able to boot from them anyway. I tried it with a Win XP CD and nothing passed "press key to boot". Reading error or maybe the CD is old however I also tried some linuxi on USB as disc image, and it still didn't boot, so maybe it's something else.

Here is basically my actual problem put simply: I hear Puppy is about 70-190 MB but same size or smaller ones I tried also failed, namely Porteus, TinyCorePlus and Slitaz. And Slitaz was the closest one to booting, saw a tiny mouse, then a black screen, and it was just 50 MB. I'm only approaching Puppy (for this machine at least) because I see it is built from the ground up completely differently and for old machines too, so yeah...

[Salty-san]

Not liking to double post (and not sure on those rules here) but I like to be thorough and orderly with replies...

[quote="mikeslr"]

Since you tried rufus, I take it that somehow you have access to a computer which runs Windows, at least the XP version. I've had problems trying to create a bootable USB-Key with rufus. Don't know why. Other's swear by it.

I have never had a problem burning an ISO to a USB-stick using LinuxLiveUSB Creator. You'll find it here: http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5488- ... eator.html. You can find a tutorial on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMLSpBdRec

Using LinuxLiveUSB Creator, the only thing you want to be certain about is not to select the wrong “drive

[Fossil]

I hear Puppy is about 70-190 MB but same size or smaller ones I tried also failed, namely Porteus, TinyCorePlus and Slitaz. And Slitaz was the closest one to booting, saw a tiny mouse, then a black screen, and it was just 50 MB.

Honestly, if you can't boot from a 50 Meg disc - and the computer has (we hope!) 189 Megs of RAM, then something is wrong! Perhaps you are on a hiding for nothing!
Before I moved over to Puppy I too used to mess around with DSL and it's companion, Feather Linux; both were very nice small distros, but their menu system's were messy, and mounting the hard drive required finding the correct menu item - which took a good search. It's been a long time since then. If I can find a disc I'll give it a go just for 'old times sake'.
Mikeslr's approach is the best one: Choose the best of the best computer you have; get it up and running; then try either cabled or wireless on a good machine, before considering any slow or partially dead offering. At least then you will know with certainty all is functional.
One other thing stands out: Do you know how to set the computer's boot order from the BIOS - that is at the moment of starting up, when the first screen appears?
A floppy drive is no hardship. In the past a boot-floppy was used to start up a boot CD. It's recorded somewhere deep in the How-To's.
Something to think about!

[s243a]

It's so old it has a Floppy drive <,<...It was a leftover from company stock like in 2005 or so in this country, so doubt it's pretty high tech. Probably USB 1.0 then, which might be why it causes problems on USB boot and why I got advices about cleaning it?

It had two botched Windows XP installs on it that were corrupted or whatever, it was used like that too and when I got it, and it had some data on it. I saw in it on Hiren...But I later formatted the entire partition NTFS, can do it in any way I want.

So far it only managed to boot on USB into Multi Boots, and from Hiren into Minix XP (with various memory errors while I was in it) and Parted Magic (but I had to use no graphic RAM settings or something, so it was looking really botchy)....But also booted it into Live Win XP USB, those Barte PE enviroments. And that's about it, over 5 types of Linuxes on the other hand failed at Kernel and unpacking mostly. The only thing it could boot into was Damn Small Linux, but I can't do a damn thing with it. Also, it didn't seem able to mount the HDD, which was weird.

I guess I can make CD/DVDs but old desktop doesn't seem able to boot from them anyway. I tried it with a Win XP CD and nothing passed "press key to boot". Reading error or maybe the CD is old however I also tried some linuxi on USB as disc image, and it still didn't boot, so maybe it's something else.

I,m going to recomend Wary 5.5, boot from the CD. Install on USB with universal installer. Run grub and install the boot loader on either the flopy or the hard drive.

If you do 't have a working hard drive You may need the CD for boot. While you can make the USB bootable some older bios have issues with this.

[gcmartin]

@Salty-San

Lot's of users are trying to help you. I have a couple of questions based upon your comments thruout this thread you have started.

As I understand thus far, you are on an exploratory and proof of concept. But, you haven't shared what you are expecting to achieve.

Questions

• You share that you have several PCs for use in your evaluation. But, it seems you have taken one from the very bottom of the heap. Is there a reason for wanting to use that one (you have share that it is deficient in working hardware)?
• You shared that you are interested in use of Live mode bootings. Do you have other PCs that could be used, even temporarily, for some evaluation(s)? If so, which/what would you test with to get a feel for Puppy Linux?
• Can you share a little more what you would like to have in your PUPPY use? For example, are you looking to replace an Apple or Window OS and if so, which one?

This may help members to help you, guide you, so that your expectations are matched.

Adding PUPPY Linux to an old-old PC is NOT going to make that PC run "with the wind" of any newer PCs since 2005, when Puppy was first introduced. Further, almost any of those PUPPY Linuxes made available in 2005-2008 will work on the hardware you started trying on this thread. Live mode is typically booted from CD/DVDs created by downloading an ISO from any OS and creating the bootable CD/DVD on a PC which also is capable of booting a CD/DVD.

I think you will find Puppy Linux a wonderful set of services to match any general needs you have. But, to begin, it would be nice to, at least, get you to a point where you will have a comfortable starting experience for you to evaluate. After some evaluation, you can then drop back to testing really old stuff in your evaluations.

Hope this is helpful

[Fossil]

I agree with gcmartin. Hopes and expectations are one thing - cold reality is another!
The first hurdle is this:

I guess I can make CD/DVDs but old desktop doesn't seem able to boot from them anyway. I tried it with a Win XP CD and nothing passed "press key to boot".

Do you know how to set the start-up boot order from the BIOS. Yes/No?
The next question: If you can use Windows to burn a CD, the previously named CD burner software can only make a bootable CD from a downloaded Puppy .ISO. The burn to CD issue is often the downfall for the novice who simply copies the .ISO - and does not create a working CD. This could be the crux of the matter.
Also. If the CD drive is really unavailable, can you use Windows to create a bootable USB drive? Until those questions have a satisfactory answer nothing else can be achieved.

[Salty-san]

I agree with gcmartin. Hopes and expectations are one thing - cold reality is another!
The first hurdle is this:

I guess I can make CD/DVDs but old desktop doesn't seem able to boot from them anyway. I tried it with a Win XP CD and nothing passed "press key to boot".

Do you know how to set the start-up boot order from the BIOS. Yes/No?
The next question: If you can use Windows to burn a CD, the previously named CD burner software can only make a bootable CD from a downloaded Puppy .ISO. The burn to CD issue is often the downfall for the novice who simply copies the .ISO - and does not create a working CD. This could be the crux of the matter.
Also. If the CD drive is really unavailable, can you use Windows to create a bootable USB drive? Until those questions have a satisfactory answer nothing else can be achieved.

Uhm, you guys, I know how to do some USBs and burns, and yes, I always choose with BIOS, it's not like this is the first time I've messed with this type of stuff. ;/...I just thought these kinds of answers were already implied in what I was talking about so far.

Fossil, I appreciate the eagerness to be methodical and orderly here, but I am pretty sure I made it clear I have more machines to work with here, and yes I have 2 with Windows, and other Linux pen drives. I could also try some CDs. For that matter I mentioned Rufus, which only works in Windows to begin with. :p

As I understand thus far, you are on an exploratory and proof of concept. But, you haven't shared what you are expecting to achieve.

Questions
•You share that you have several PCs for use in your evaluation. But, it seems you have taken one from the very bottom of the heap. Is there a reason for wanting to use that one (you have share that it is deficient in working hardware)?

•You shared that you are interested in use of Live mode bootings. Do you have other PCs that could be used, even temporarily, for some evaluation(s)? If so, which/what would you test with to get a feel for Puppy Linux?

•Can you share a little more what you would like to have in your PUPPY use? For example, are you looking to replace an Apple or Window OS and if so, which one?
This may help members to help you, guide you, so that your expectations are matched.

Adding PUPPY Linux to an old-old PC is NOT going to make that PC run "with the wind" of any newer PCs since 2005, when Puppy was first introduced. Further, almost any of those PUPPY Linuxes made available in 2005-2008 will work on the hardware you started trying on this thread. Live mode is typically booted from CD/DVDs created by downloading an ISO from any OS and creating the bootable CD/DVD on a PC which also is capable of booting a CD/DVD.

What I hope to achieve is to get an old piece of shit computer running and fixed just for kicks. It is not dire or imperative that I get it to work because I need to use it or something, it's more like a hobby and poking around type curiosity. That is why it's the bottom of the heap, it's not like I think my other ones are too good for Puppy or whatever, I am just not going to switch on them yet. So feel free to take risks or ask me to do anything...

Yes I will be making the Puppy on a different machine, a Windows 7 one, but I have no other machine to test it on in terms of installing on a hard drive. I was just going to check if it works in live USB mode.

And since I may give this to someone possibly, the goal is to replace Windows XP and hopefully just have a similar feel and be intuitive. Internet and some text documents and image viewers and possibly video/music players are all I really need as far as features go.

But right now, quality of life takes a low priority over just getting anything to work on it.

I,m going to recomend Wary 5.5, boot from the CD. Install on USB with universal installer. Run grub and install the boot loader on either the flopy or the hard drive.

If you do 't have a working hard drive You may need the CD for boot. While you can make the USB bootable some older bios have issues with this.

Ok, thanks for the clear answer, or well, version suggestion. Will digg around for it. But I am a bit unclear as for the rest...are you telling me to make a CD or an USB? Run grub how and when? And are you saying I can mess with the floppy drive somehow to make it help me install?

...are you saying I should separately install grub and boot loader on the HDD before booting from CD or USB? Hmm...Is that a thing? Because it sounds like it can help.

[LazY Puppy]

Download Wary ISO
Burn Wary ISO to a CD
Boot from CD

Plug in the USB Stick
Wait until a Drive Icon appears on the desktop

Note: the USB Drive needs to be able to boot. Check/do this using GParted setting the Boot Flag under Manage Flags. Unmount the USB Flash Drive before starting GParted, if it is mounted.

Execute Puppy Universal Installer
Follow the instructions of Universal installer to install Puppy to USB Flash Drive

Execute Grub4DOS Boot Loader
Follow the instructions of Grub4DOS

Reboot from USB Flash Drive.

If your computer is too old to boot from USB Flash Drive you can use Plop. Plop is a bootloader starting from a CD drive wherein one can select a USB Flash Drive to boot from it.

[Fossil]

Fossil, I appreciate the eagerness to be methodical and orderly here, but I am pretty sure I made it clear I have more machines to work with here, and yes I have 2 with Windows, and other Linux pen drives. I could also try some CDs. For that matter I mentioned Rufus, which only works in Windows to begin with. :p

Implied assumptions lead to incorrect advice. If you have more computers to work with, why attempt all this palaver with what appears to be a nearly non-functional POS? And then you want to give it to someone - as an alternative to Windows? That will be much appreciated! Stroll on. If you can't get the machine to function even with a 50 Meg distro, just using Wary will prove to be a challenge. Good luck with that!

[mikeslr]

Barebones are Pups from which some or all applications not essential to booting to desktop have been stripped in order to reduce the amount of RAM required to boot to desktop. The user can later install just those applications he or she wants, or better still, use SFSes which can be loaded and unloaded on the fly.

I would try rufwoof's Wary Barebone's version first. You'll find the link to the ISO here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 518#871518. This may be the most recent Barebones. IIRC, rufwoof included dbus in the ISO. Some newer versions of web-browsers require it.

You'll find links to a number of “Barebones