Windows [10] listens to you, gathers your keystrokes ...

[Barkin]

Allegedly ...

By default, Windows [10] listens to you, gathers your keystrokes, watches your browser history and purchases and sends them to Microsoft and its partners -- but even if you turn off all the tickboxes in the hellishly complex privacy dashboard it still gathers and sprays your data.

http://boingboing.net/2015/08/14/even-when-you-turn-on-win-10.html

[rokytnji]

So does my phone. No matter how hard i try to leave. They keep pulling me back in.

PS. Updating Wifes Windows 7 Dell E4310 laptop with Windows 7 enterprise but I think the original was Windows 7 home. Sticker is illegible. So jellybean keyfinder is next on the agenda.

Grabbing the free iso from

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/softwar ... ndows10ISO

when done. It is her own personal paid for work laptop. It is what she wants me to do. So guess what?

I am either gonna be pounding sand up my a$$ or things will get done.

I hope I get this error message though

[cthisbear]

ProduKey gets better recommendations on Whirlpool.

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

" Sticker is illegible. So jellybean keyfinder is next on the agenda. "

Chris.

[rokytnji]

ProduKey gets better recommendations on Whirlpool.

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

" Sticker is illegible. So jellybean keyfinder is next on the agenda. "

Chris.

Windows 7 Enterprise shows up and a cant find producr key mention is present in the line. It also picks up a ID number that looks like a product key. Maybe. Not sure.

Starting to look like her laptop meets the "no you better not" exception since Enterprise is shown and the sticker is no help.

Moving on to JellyBean to double check but I figure Windows 10 is giving me a out with my wife expectations, with it's legalese exceptions.

Edit: Jellybean confirmed it. I get to back out of the 10 update/upgrade install. Oh happy days. I am not in the dog house.
Too freaking hot to sleep outside this summer.

[8-bit]

After I let my PC update to windows 10, I thought I would use the "Magic Jellybean Keyfinder" to verify the Windows key.
The application came up with a blank window and no key.
Also, If you go to set up the MAIL application in it, read the EULI.
I found that Microsoft will have access to and read all your emails when you use the MAIL app.
I had various things not work correctly including updates of installed applications and games. The updates to them would freeze part way through the install process.
But I just got tired quickly of being shown adds from their store to get this or that as well as feeling my personal security was gone and MS was more in control of Win10 than I was.
So I decided to take advantage of the offer to go back to my older version windows 7 home premium.
After starting the process to revert back to Windows 7, I suffered through no less than 20 reboots before giving up on them restoring my old OS.
But I had made a recovery CD and a backup for Windows 7 and that worked.
The first thing I did after restoring Windows 7 was to check and see if it showed as ACTIVATED.
It did. So I am back in business. And I will not install the so called free upgrade to Win10 again.

[Billtoo]

I installed the 64bit Windows 10 update to my mini desktop pc, dual core celeron processor with 2gb ram.
I added windows versions of Vlc,Smplayer,etc. and haven't had any
problems so far.
Was using Windows Defender but installed McAfee AntiVirus Plus.

I like linux but I like this too, it works great on this pc, so does
Mint 17.2,PCLinuxOS,LxPup, etc. (from usb drives).

[rokytnji]

I hardly ever buy my own gear. My wife was the one who actually got me into using a computer.

She pays for my Iphone 5S, Bought me 1st laptop, Brings me home servers from City Hall where she works when they upgrade their gear.

One lucky Puppy here. She told me this morning that it was nice I checked into updating/installing Windows 10 on her Dell E4310 Laptop.

Which she now complains it is too heavy, and wants something newer and lighter with the same screen size. You know. The girl thing.

Guess who ends up with Dell E4310 with I5 processor, 8 gig of ram, 500 gig 7200 RPM Sata. Grinning at me . She says, "when I get my new laptop. You can have the Dell."

See, it pays to be a good sort and say "yes dear, whatever you say" sometimes. It costs you nothing but time and a little effort.

You can bet your bottom dollar on one thing. The Dell will become a my next Linux monstor go to laptop when That happens.

Been checking into the EULA on the new Windows 10 Email client plus other things.
Ya better run Claws or something else IMO.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/service ... fault.aspx

I have a feeling you Windows 7 and 8 users were already being done like this myself. Windows 10 is just admitting it is all (putting it in writing).
My windows 7 laptop never goes online except for updates and downloading motorcycle tuning software. Then tunes bikes. No email, no staying for hours on the net.

So it is not Like am a Windows fanboy. I just need it for one job and one job only. Besides, I am probably umbilically attached to something nefarious on my Iphone any ways. So screwed any ways if you asked me.


If you don't want to be seen. Unplug everything and go back to riding motorcycles using only cash like I used to do before my wife decided I needed to learn something new. Borrow someone elses cell phone when needing to call something. Everyone has one.

Cuz your debit and credit card is watching you also.

Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services.

[prehistoric]

Interesting take on what W10 is actually doing.

I said earlier there is no point in installing a keylogger in a W10 machine, it already has one built in. The evidence presented here does nothing to improve my confidence in M$ user security. THe company is very worried about its own security, yours is not so important.

There are any number of controls you can turn off if you don't want M$ to track your activity, but the question of exactly what you have to do if you want to operate a stand-alone system remains open.

Google and Apple also track activity, but I have the impression their approach is not so obviously amateurish. If you know otherwise, I'm interested in examples.

If you don't want to worry about this you should probably not read the novel Tuna Life. The author clearly has real experience with venture capitalists and tech start-ups.

[8Geee]

I suppose W10 is a good OS IF
you never, never, ever connect to the internet.

Just wondering... how large is that iso anyways (normal install) ?

[Ted Dog]

I suppose W10 is a good OS IF
you never, never, ever connect to the internet.

Just wondering... how large is that iso anyways (normal install) ?

Very small historically for M$ and its self bloat over time seems far less than past OSes, to early to tell if its going to revert back to SOP.

The ISO to install win10 Tech review was under 4G and fresh install around 7G. I think when they got into ARM limits they had to mind themselves or the ARM version would be too slow even for windows users used to dog slow experience, after a few weeks.

[greengeek]

I suppose W10 is a good OS IF you never, never, ever connect to the internet.

I suspect that modern devices (including W10 and Android) are capable of using a form of "drive-by wifi hijack" using open wifi networks to squirt data back "home" every so often. I dont think they need your explicit permission to hunt out open networks. Exactly what form that leaked data is I cant really speculate, but I am sure the devices collect important info (like windows.dat used to do) or like clusters of GPS data, then have the ability to send such metadata off via wifi if requested or "primed" to do so. (but then I am a bit of a tinfoil hatter...)

EDIT : there is also a discussion about how to stop the W10 telemetry here but only some of it is visible to non-logged-in-users.

EDIT 2 : Prehistoric's ARS-Technica link contains the sentence:

As part of delivering Windows 10 as a service, updates may be delivered....

which really highlights the use of W10 as a system service or terminal session - structured around the availability of an internet connection. It will be interesting to see how well it functions longer term as an "offgrid" OS. I think they are counting on harvesting data from online users.

[bark_bark_bark]

As long as you have no wifi card in your computer, I don't think you have to worry.

[Deacon]

So does my phone. No matter how hard i try to leave. They keep pulling me back in.

Until someone comes up with a Puppy for one of these phone models I'd probably go with a Firefox OS phone.

In the US though, the only one is the ZTE Open and they stopped selling new phones.

I'd like to make a little AI like Cortana or Siri that just operates on my device, not as a SaaS-type thing.

[Deacon]

I suppose W10 is a good OS IF
you never, never, ever connect to the internet.

Does any software actually work if you do that? Even SOLITAIRE is connected on Windows 10.

[perdido]

You better watch out
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Windows 10 is coming to spy

They will log your keystrokes
And record your voice
Cortana ain't no slob like Microsoft Bob
Microsoft is going to spy

They can see you when you're sleeping
Show ads when you're awake
Take location data and push you along
To make sure that you're not late!

O! You better trust them!
You better comply!
You're data is safe!
I'm telling you why
Windows 10 is downloading now



.

[8Geee]

Post of the day
+1

[prehistoric]

Now reading Future Crimes by Marc Goodman. First example is the famous hack of Mat Honan of Wired, who was using mostly Apple products. This took place in 2012.

Hey Marc, 2012 is no longer the future.

There are the usual horrifying statistics on new malware, but so far I haven't seen the slightest acknowledgement that the vast majority pertain to Windoze.

There are horrified discussions of the terrible things you can discover in Terms of Service for various on-line sites. No mention yet of any M$ EULA or ToS. Mentioned Skype without saying that M$ owns it. So far failed to mention the benefits of being able to find malicious code in open source, and remove it. No mention of how you can do business using Windoze if M$ claims you have violated the terms of their licensing.

There is the expected rant about the high hidden costs of free software, and how those companies mentioned monetize this by selling user information for marketing, but not a peep about how M$ monetized their investment in IE, while they were driving Netscape out of business.

In short, I have a pretty good idea where Marc Goodman got his information. Naturally, he didn't say anything about how M$ was planning to do all the things he deplores in free W10.

[Bindee]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01 ... a_patches/

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/28/micros ... 8-systems/

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... ndows-7-8/

Windows 10 data slurping to be included in Windows 7 and 8 by update and upgrade patches.

[prehistoric]

W10 takes wireless insecurity to new depths.

We were taken by surprise because this "feature" came from Windows phones, which nobody I know uses.

The idea that it is OK for your wifi passphase to be transmitted across the Internet, and to mobile phones, and stored on M$ servers, simply because it is encrypted doesn't reassure me. In order to use the passphrase someone has to decrypt it. Within the OS that passphrase must be available, and it is only a matter of time before attackers find it.

Sharing this information with all your contacts doesn't strike me as a great idea either. We all know how easy it is to be friends with people on Facebook or Skype.

Now, the next layer of confusion happens when ordinary people are expected to understand the implications of default installation choices. You can opt out, but how many people will understand the need to add the phrase "_optout" to their SSID?

(Google is guilty of a similar lapse, to opt out of their wireless network mapping you need to add "_nomap" to the SSID.)

The result will be that virtually every common WiFi network might as well be open. It is only a matter of time until social engineering and system cracking reveals the passphrase of any wifi network not run by paranoids. Mapping will show criminals where to gain access.

This comes on top of existing problems with WEP, WPA and WPS. Even WPA2 can be defeated via an offline comparison with recorded traffic using a dictionary attack. There are even attacks using less computation going after the period when the router deauthenticates devices on the network, forcing them to sign in again.

By giving your passphrase to all kinds of devices used by clueless people considered electronic friends M$ has simplified things immensely. There is no reason to assume anything on an ordinary wireless network will be secure.

Please note, this wonderful feature was enabled by default by the same people who expect you to trust them with everything in your computer because they really know how to do computer security.

Added: I just wondered about how they are doing this opt out business. (If I had agreed to their terms of service this thought itself might be a violation.) The critical question on my mind was how does the altered SSID with "_optout" affect attempts to log in? I found this on the Sophos blog naked security.

It can take several days for your network to be added to the opted-out list for Wi-Fi Sense. If you want to stop your network from being shared sooner than that, you can change your Wi-Fi network password.

What this tells us is that the instance of W10 being run by the neighbors has to check with Redmond before it knows not to use that passphrase to exploit your network. All this assumes that system has not be hacked to do terrible things with your data. How often have Windows systems been hacked?

Just one more thing, as Peter Falk would say, we already know that W10 uses torrents to distribute updates using your bandwidth. What I'm wondering at this point if that includes wifi connections with those people in the next apartment. If so, I see great potential here for really massive hacks that cannot be contained by centralized control. The basic networking is already implemented.