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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Wine wipes MBR code.
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11331

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 06:20    Post subject:  Wine wipes MBR code.
Subject description: Oh yes indeedy....
 

Well thought I would mention something that ACTUALLY happens Smile

Some years back i used to make a habit of wiping the MBR when using wine. Well the boot part anyway...partition tables remain intact.
It seemed to stop happening eventually which I put down to using grub4dos boot loader rather than the windows one.....well its seems its more likely the software in use.

I was trying to get me beloved music 2000 PC version running for thee offspring and succeeded in wine...ooo I thought lets try the install on C:.... sure enough the old behaviour returned and after a reboot nothing but a blinking cursor after the bios.
Popped in me slax disc, ran bootlace and all was back to normal...

There is a certain pattern though and seems like one factor I had missed before was that it appears to happen with some games/programs aimed at windows 98...indeed this one locks up if you try network play as its trying to use a vxd driver!!!if you know windows you know thats a bad move.

The scenario is...
run a windows program in wine from C: and the MBR gets wiped ...but only some programs do it ...and sometimes the program does not even have to be on c: or c: is not mounted..yes thats happened too.
Everything runs as normal, there is no crash...just the lost boot code.

WineHQ say that it should NEVER be run as root.... I guess there is some sense in that statement. After all 'Wine Is Not an Emulator'

Mike
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3702
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 08:25    Post subject:  

So it is not Wine's fault at all!
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11331

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 09:18    Post subject:  

Wine giving access for programs to affect a low level section of the hard drive...I do think you have to consider wine to be part of the problem here.... the program itself (and others too... all legit normally considered safe programs available to the public) is just doing what it normally does which does not cause a problem in native Windows.

I find its better to accept when there is a problem rather than be in denial of such....I only mention it in case anyone else has experienced the same or wishes to avoid doing so. Its also a reminder that wine is not like say qemu or virtualbox which isolates software and systems from the real system(or at least that is the idea). Its also worth bearing in mind if anyone wishes to install Internet Explorer in wine or anything else known to be insecure as wine is definitely NOT a sandbox.

mike
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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 1935
Location: Wisconsin USA

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 11:01    Post subject:  

Isn't it possible to sandbox wine if you remove the symlinks to the home folder and root filesystem.
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3702
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 11:31    Post subject:  

You need to ask if the program is certified as safe under Wine.
Wine DOES have a list of tested programs.
If it is NOT on that list, don't blame Wine.

In the same way I would be wary about running Linux Apps using CYGWIN.

Better to use a virtual machine.

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11331

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 12:29    Post subject:  

I am reporting a phenomena. No one is blaming anyone or anything. It is normal practice to record such events.

If wine allows low level access when run as root then users need to be aware. Wine duplicates windows functions but they are compiled on linux/elf just like say ms-sys or bootlace.com or dd .... and potentially can affect low level system and hardware just like any other linux binary.

Bear in mind wine themselves give the non root recommendation so their declaration of 'safe' is defined as running as a non privelidged user.
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=8233
the program in question.

If this phenomena was reported to them, WineHG would simply reply that running as root has unknown risks.
Blanking the MBR seems one to take notice of and since puppy runs as root by default it seems logical to report this here to benefit others and perhaps gather data.

Quote:
Isn't it possible to sandbox wine if you remove the symlinks to the home folder and root filesystem.

Doing so may provide some sort of protection in some cases but it still a set of binaries with potential to do what any other binary in the system can do. It might be an interesting one to test. In the past I never pinned down one particular program but this time I have so its possible to run various tests.
Not too keen on abusing the MBR though Very Happy

mike
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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 1935
Location: Wisconsin USA

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 13:19    Post subject:  

You could always run wine as spot.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11331

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 13:23    Post subject:  

Quote:
You could always run wine as spot.

yes that should do the trick ...will test it one cloudy day Smile
mike
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5834
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 15:01    Post subject:  

Thanks for the info mike. I've always been leery of the idea of allowing Windows programmes to run within Puppy and so far I've been lucky that Linux has had versions of the programmes that I need. Your experience convinces me to keep Wine at arms length. Maybe even bargepole distance.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11331

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 16:17    Post subject:  

Well has to be said I use wine quite frequently and as root .... usually a problem free scenario but very occasionally something different catches me out.

Don't be put of...just be aware.

Indeed I myself just need to rethink how I handle this.

mike
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13981
Location: S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 18:22    Post subject:  

Quote:
I was trying to get me beloved music 2000 PC version running for thee offspring and succeeded in wine...ooo I thought lets try the install on C:

Is that Wine's C drive?
/root/.wine/drive_c

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 11331

PostPosted: Sun 01 Mar 2015, 18:47    Post subject:  

Ah yes perhaps not clear...

no the actual c: drive....as in /dev/hda1 (or sda1) ...in other words the real first partition .
And yes it is one to avoid ... did for a long time but ventured in and had been ok for some time. Once bitten but not shy enough.

Running programs from there or even having it mounted were always considered not a good idea.

So hope that clarifies.

Also worth a mention that I have managed in the past to wipe the mbr with c: unmounted ...but was definitely not the best program in the world that did it...on the whole leaving the real C: alone is enough.

Sometimes you have to break things to learn...

I guess its a thread about playing safe with WINE.....literally Smile

mike
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