Alternative way to build Ubuntu / Debian Puppy [RETIRED]

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anikin
Posts: 994
Joined: Thu 10 May 2012, 06:16

#101 Post by anikin »

jamesbond wrote:The building script from Emil's thread uses only apt-get. Unfortunately puppy can't use same install method and woof-ce aims to use puppy as base distro for building so the best option is lost for us.

I haven't looked at the details, but Emil's script seems to be starting off an existing Debian setup (the "live cd" setup), while woof-next starts from nothing. In a way, deb-build.sh is more like debootstrap, and yes, I did consult debootstrap source to get ideas of how it works.
You won't see much looking at the details. What matters is the bigger picture behind Emil's project. The engine, that drives it is the Debian Live-Build tool.
>> live-build is a set of scripts to build Debian Live system images. The idea behind live-build is a tool suite that uses a configuration directory to completely automate and customize all aspects of building a Live image <<
Emil's project is just a configuration directory (within live-build), that he has setup to build his variant of Debian Wheezy. You can reconfigure it any way you wish. Build a sid/jessy/trusty/utopic/precise variant plus many more. Customize anything you want - make it minimal, chubby, bloated, etc. And most important, Live-Build starts off from nothing too. Or to be more exact, from debootstrap and ends up in chroot - nothing more, nothing less. It can be installed to and run off of any distro. It does not start off an existing Debian setup. Regarding Emil's building script, that uses only apt-get - when you're following the process in the terminal, you will see, dpkg is doing its job too. Once you get a taste of live-build, you will never want to use or invent anything else. It makes Woof and friends look a clumsy and useless contraption.

jamesbond
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Location: The Blue Marble

#102 Post by jamesbond »

anikin wrote:It makes Woof and friends look a clumsy and useless contraption.
Then why are you posting here? :evil: This is a Woof-thread, if you don't like it because it is useless and clumsy, please post else where.
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

anikin
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#103 Post by anikin »

Why are you asking?
I'm not a Puppy basher, but that's how I feel comparing the two build systems.
And the point of my post was to clarify, that Emil's project starts from scratch, not off an existing live CD.

edit: jamesbond,
"clumsy and useless" *absolutely* do not apply to your or anyone's work - let me set it straight. The words should be read in a very narrow context of the above comparison - the two build systems.

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smokey01
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#104 Post by smokey01 »

Anikin, will emil's system build other than debian systems. Currently woof-next can manage 4 different distros. Have you built using both systems.
I'm only asking to try and ascertain if one system is really better than the other and you are comparing apples with apples.
Thanks

anikin
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#105 Post by anikin »

Smokey,

I didn't even compare woof-next to anything, let's exclude it.
By woof I meant the original one and its current fork. Again, Emil's project is based on an official Debian/Ubuntu build system, which, I feel deserves the attention of Puppy devs. That was the only reason I posted here.

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smokey01
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#106 Post by smokey01 »

I must admit I'm not too keen on the original woof as I find it difficult to drive and it can take seven hours to build a distro.
Woof-next on the other hand is easy to drive and only takes about 10 - 15 minutes to build a distro that will boot to a desktop.
When I get a chance I will have a look at emil's work.
Cheers

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saintless
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Joined: Sat 11 Jun 2011, 13:43
Location: Bulgaria

#107 Post by saintless »

Hi, Jamesbond.
jamesbond wrote:And yes, woof-next is aimed for using puppy as the "host" distro (where you do the build). I am assuming that people who wants to build puppy are puppy users themselves, those who know the virtues of puppy - thus naturally using puppy as the host. That being said, deb-build.sh *should* work on any reasonable distro, not only puppies. Anything other than should be considered as a bug and should be fixed.
I understand. I do not use puppy as host distro and do not know much about puppy structure and scripts but hope my testing will help you to improve debian sid build process. Still think dpkg database is not correctly builded from start and this will create problems for the user later. I will post some fixes soon.

Toni

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saintless
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#108 Post by saintless »

Fixes for Woof-Next-James-Debian-Sid-Build:

1. Added in /usr/bin files from puppy:
dhcpcd
geany

Added deb packages:
gettext-base
libasprintf0c2
libcap2
startpar

Added /usr/local/bin/rox script to start file (home) desktop icon.

2. Remove /var/lib/dpkg/info/bblinks.list and "Package: bblinks" section from /var/lib/dpkg/status
Puppy BusyBox links are still in the system but will be replaced with debian files when it is needed without apt-get errors.

3. Added in /etc/group:

Code: Select all

sys:x:3:
adm:x:4:
mail:x:8:
news:x:9:
man:x:12:
proxy:x:13:
fax:x:21:
voice:x:22:
sudo:x:27:
www-data:x:33:
backup:x:34:
operator:x:37:
list:x:38:
irc:x:39:
src:x:40:
gnats:x:41:
shadow:x:42:
utmp:x:43:
sasl:x:45:
staff:x:50:
games:x:60:
nogroup:x:65534:
libuuid:x:101:
crontab:x:102:
scanner:x:104:saned
colord:x:106:
ssl-cert:x:108:
Debian-exim:x:109:
mlocate:x:110:
bluetooth:x:114:
saned:x:116:
utempter:x:103:
fuse:x:111:
ntp:x:112:
4. added in /etc/gshadow:

Code: Select all

kmem:*::
dialout:*::
fax:*::
voice:*::
cdrom:*::
floppy:*::
tape:*::
sudo:*::
audio:*::
www-data:*::
backup:*::
operator:*::
list:*::
irc:*::
src:*::
gnats:*::
shadow:*::
utmp:*::
video:*::
sasl:*::
plugdev:*::
staff:*::
games:*::
libuuid:!::
crontab:!::
scanner:!::
messagebus:!::
colord:!::
lpadmin:!::
ssl-cert:!::
Debian-exim:!::
mlocate:!::
netdev:!::
bluetooth:!::
saned:!::
utempter:!::
fuse:!::
ntp:!::
5. Changed section in /var/lib/dpkg/status from:

Code: Select all

Package: libc6
Status: hold ok installed
Priority: required
Section: libs
Maintainer: unspecified
Architecture: i386
Version: 2.19-10
Depends: libgcc1
Description: libc6 installed by deb-build.sh
to:

Code: Select all

Package: libc6
Status: hold ok installed
Priority: required
Section: libs
Maintainer: unspecified
Architecture: i386
Version: 2.19-10
Replaces: libc6-i386
Provides: glibc-2.19-1
Depends: libgcc1
Description: libc6 installed by deb-build.sh
If I find something more I will post it again.

Toni

emil
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#109 Post by emil »

When I get a chance I will have a look at emil's work.
Currently the project is available on github
https://github.com/emilwidmann/Debian-light-builder

I removed it from the boxen.math server, so the download links in my old posts don't work at the moment. Eventually I can reupload it.

I want to add that I just created a tiny part of these scripts. Most work is done by the debian live-builder. Thiery Monteil wrote a creative module system to configure and run those scripts. I just wrote a special module which tries to create a simple, puppy like system.

I would like that my project is not compared to the work of others (like jamesbonds scripts) in a judgemential (better/worse) way. I think all those different projects share a similar goal and come from a special need to improve on some deep founded weakness of puppy, while at the same time keeping its strengths and simplicity - generally all traits why we love the Puppy Linux system and care for it.

Saintless and the team of DebianDog* proved, that a puppy like debian system is possible. There was lot of insight and experience gained. Possibly I return to my build scripts, and anbody who wants to join to inject some good portions of puppy linux is very welcome.

with respect and kind regards
emil

* aka: Saintless and the DebianDogs (TM)

jamesbond
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Location: The Blue Marble

Retirement notice

#110 Post by jamesbond »

This project is now retired.

The purpose of this project is to bring fun back to puppy building (along with exploring different ideas); during the time that woof-CE development seemed stagnant.

Woof-CE has just seen a resurgence of activity; and a lot of things have been improved. Maintaining a separate branch of Woof-CE (and trying to sync between them) by myself is not something that I can do concurrently with my other projects (hobby and paid).

Therefore I have decided to retire this project. People should focus on the official Woof-CE (the "testing" branch) and contributes there.

I have just done one final update (updating the repo-url) so that it should still work; but remember you are on your own. Please feel free to experiment with it, fork it, improve it etc.

I may revert my decision and re-activate this if I get enough feedback and contributions - but I don't hold my breath. Until then, this is it.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

====

PS: The build system which is the core of Woof-CE NG (which is mine) will live along elsewhere in another project called "Fatdog-Like".

"Fatdog-Like" is a derivative-based Fatdog. One can build Ubuntu-based Fatdog (=Fatdog-Like Ubuntu), Fatdog-Like Slackware, etc. It's still in the early stage and is not public yet, but I can already boot 32-bit barebones Fatdog-Like Tahr under BIOS and UEFI to desktop with jwm :wink:

Fatdog-Like is a project that I have been pondering for a long time. As soon as I started this, I was thinking about it - but I didn't do it because I don't want people (and myself) to get distracted.

Now that this Woof-CE NG is officialy retired, I can pursue this project with leisure.
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

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mavrothal
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Joined: Mon 24 Aug 2009, 18:23

Re: Retirement notice

#111 Post by mavrothal »

jamesbond wrote:This project is now retired.
:cry:
jamesbond wrote:The build system which is the core of Woof-CE NG (which is mine) will live along elsewhere in another project called "Fatdog-Like".

:D
jamesbond wrote:Woof-CE has just seen a resurgence of activity; and a lot of things have been improved.

I actually think that current changes in woof only improve transition to your woof-next and hopefully when this cycle finishes things may move that way.
But as you said it depends on "feedback and contributions".
Fingers crossed.
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