Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped

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Moat
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#21 Post by Moat »

^^ :lol: :lol: !! The most effective "shield" - common sense - being quite easily and economically implemented. :)

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mikeb
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#22 Post by mikeb »

'Shield' was a bar of soap with deodorant built in ... it probably would have provided radiation screening knowing the sorts of chemicals that tended to get used for such things :D

We demand lead foil hats....

mike

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Ted Dog
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#23 Post by Ted Dog »

mikeb I do not think he is joking this was not placed in off topic area. Its a real issue for those who have it. Ate lunch in a cool two story restaurant with a outdoor deck to view WV version of the Materhoon or Mt. Fugi. forgot name but a perfectly white Mountain in a sea of dark Green. There the local tribe of EMF suffers stayed.
I have a slight issue with near fields EMF such as poorly grounded computer cases and such with my muscular dystrophy causing temporary paralysis of the fingers or arm if it is resting against such sources. That was the second earilest sign of my coming M.D. issues as a young teen.
He also could have early MS or MD or any type of electrical based body issues. There is a MD condition which is near what I have and they had to cross it off the list of conditions to figure out mine. It does effect the vision and I was OK in the eyes.

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mikeb
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#24 Post by mikeb »

I was being light hearted, but more seriously was wondering about the vastly different sources mentioned and being under the one heading.
I have a slight issue with near fields EMF such as poorly grounded computer cases and such with my muscular dystrophy causing temporary paralysis of the fingers or arm if it is resting against such sources.
well a badly earthed computer case does have VOLTAGE magnetically induced into the metal work from the stray field from the PSU. (the case becomes a single winding on a transformer in effect.).. you would have the equivalent of a mild electric shock... something that would make anyone react. Had a jolt of that one in the past. A well earth case pervents any significant potential difference developing.
That's not exactly radiation though hence my previous query. I had a similar experience for different reasons with a seeding machine in which the motor windings were breaking down so 3 phase mains was dancing on the fortunately earthed machine which made me dance too.

mike

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Barkin
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#25 Post by Barkin »

Ted Dog wrote:.. no RF allowed for a wide area over a few counties ...
How do they block the RF from the sun and international radio broadcasts ?
[ i.e. there is still RF in those radio quiet areas ]

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Barkin
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#26 Post by Barkin »

Ted Dog wrote: I have a slight issue with near fields EMF such as poorly grounded computer cases and such with my muscular dystrophy causing temporary paralysis of the fingers or arm if it is resting against such sources. That was the second earilest sign of my coming M.D. issues as a young teen.
Muscular dystrophy existed before computers/TV/radio, that you experienced symptoms whilst operating a computer is not proof the computer is the cause, or EMF are an exacerbating factor.

e.g. the OP mentions cataract , eyesight defects may become apparent to the sufferer when reading a computer screen, (as many people sit in front of a computer for hours every day), but that's not proof the computer is causing the eyesight problem. In the past people incorrectly blamed reading books for causing deteriorating eyesight.

Similarly the peculiar movements required when typing on a keyboard may cause your MD symptoms to become apparent , ( but a operating a mechanical typewriter would have the same effect , no electricity required ).

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Barkin
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#27 Post by Barkin »

Ted Dog wrote:... IT works. try a mylar chip bag and test if someone can call you right back on your cellphone if you place it into a chip bag and fold over openning.
Apparently it also works if you want a "five finger discount" :) ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booster_bag

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#28 Post by Ted Dog »

Barkin troll much IRL? so much faulty logic in those earlier posts so i have nothing to add or correct. Using EMF blockers to swipe stuff. No wonder high end stores started to put metal detection system at the doors.

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Ted Dog
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#29 Post by Ted Dog »

there is a new issue with touch screens on smart phones for people like myself with changes in the electrochemistry at the cell level it causes the lack of whatever it is that iPhones and my new Android use to tell there is a finger there. Its frustrating I can press tell the cows comes home and it does not know I am there. When I was a 7th grader I saved my money for one of those touch lamps. Which worked for everyone else as designed but me :( I could feel the energy at the base.
Others with same condition have the same type of issues I was going to look into using a smartphone touch screen as a diagnostic but forgot until now.

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#30 Post by Sylvander »

Ted Dog wrote:...whatever it is that iPhones and my new Android use to tell there is a finger there.
See the various kinds of touch sensitivity listed here.

Minni
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Re: Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped

#31 Post by Minni »

Going under high-powered lines for just a short while is what's probably called "acute" (similar to putting your finger quickly thru a candle flame). It doesn't compare to proximity+prolongedly - even if the latter is relatively weaker.

As for WIFI, many experts warn against it (such as Dr.Magda Havas - see her on YouTube). I also tend to get bad headaches & heart palps in proximity to my radio, and obviously radio is not visual.
Les Kerf wrote:
Minni wrote:I'm trying to smooth the road...

...P.S. I'd appreciate an answer to my original question only...
When we aren't able to smooth the road, sometimes we can at least put springs in the wagon.

I am certainly not qualified to help with your problem, all I can suggest is that when you do start a thread, to make mention that there may be a delay in responding.
Better yet - I just added a notification of such in my signature. (update: but it doesn't seem to be displaying.)
Also, one thing I do know about EMF is that the law of inverse squares does apply. This means that if you double the distance, the EMF drops to 1/4 of the original value. Make the print as large as practical and get as far away from it as you can.s
It's for that reason I most recently got 15" thinkpads, so that I can place it as far from me on the compu-table as I possibly can. But I'm still using external keyboard & external corded mouse, both of which are connected to the green/purple PS2/USB converter tat's plugged into my computer.

For all I know, maybe I would do better with a wireless mouse & keyboard, despite what the experts say. On the other hand, maybe it's risky.

I do know for a fact that when roaming with an AM radio (tuned to white noise) - and enter my computer area, there's a loud buzzing whenever it gets near the computer or the modem. The buzzing represents heavy EMFs. It similarly buzzes near every curly-fluresent lightbulb, as well as digital clocks which are on stoves and elsewhere.

EDIT:
Ted Dog - just now noticed Page 2 of this thread. If you type BUMP in response below, that could remind me to take a look at page 2 of this thread, since right now I'm zonked. I noticed you offered alot of solutions, alot of which I'd read of in past, but there's just so much I can do. Nevertheless, I'll take a look. I'd been aware that there's a EMF-free zone somewhere in a NJ military-security zone, but maybe my memory is off, and it's actually in VA.
Thinkpad R52, Intel Pentium M, 1.73ghz, 795MHz, 2gb RAM
NOTE: Please bear with me if responses are delayed due to computer-related health issues and/or distractions. Thanks!

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Barkin
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Re: Who here can relate to EMF-handicapped

#32 Post by Barkin »

Minni wrote:I'd been aware that there's a EMF-free zone somewhere in a NJ
Unless it's a metal [Faraday] cage : there is no " EMF-free zone" on Earth because of the radio-waves coming from the sun and other stars, [ aurorae and lightning also generate radio-waves 24/7].

The people who allege they have EMF sensitivity, but who are psychogenic, will report that they feel better in the wilderness where they don't see power-cables and radio-masts : ( the sight of such devices makes them anxious and consequently feel unwell ).

The people who allege they have EMF sensitivity but are organically ill , (e.g. autoimmune), will not benefit from moving into the wilderness, as their illness is "real" and endogenous.

People who allege they have EMF sensitivity cannot demonstrate it : in double-blind trials they cannot tell if a device which emits EMF is on or off. If they were sensitive to it they would be able to tell : EMF sensitivity does not exist.

You're barking up the wrong tree looking for an electronic cause of your health problems ...
Steven Novella, M.D. wrote:While people who believe they have EHS are really having symptoms, EHS is a distraction from what is really going on. There is sufficient evidence to conclude that EHS is not a genuine distinct clinical syndrome, or at the very least that it is not caused by exposure to EMF. Continuing to promote EHS as if it is a real medical condition is irresponsible, in inexcusable given the easy access to information that is currently available.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/2153-electromagnetic-hypersensitivity-still-dubious-.html

If I'm wrong and you actually have this superpower you could make a fortune demonstrating it ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi#One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

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mikeb
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#33 Post by mikeb »

Ok so we are talking about voltage spikes and their associated fields.

Switchmode power supplies chop up the mains and that cause the moise you here on the radio...light dimmers were notorious for it and the ensuing interference.

What about lightening storms...they generate far more than any piece of electrical or electronic equipment? Only a nuclear device can top that one.

mike

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Ted Dog
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#34 Post by Ted Dog »

People who allege they have EMF sensitivity cannot demonstrate it : in double-blind trials they cannot tell if a device which emits EMF is on or off. If they were sensitive to it they would be able to tell : EMF sensitivity does not exist.

You are reading into the study more then the Authors. Their tests did not prove a connection. That happens all the time in studies. That is the lack of a finding with the way they tested it. Not that a connection does not occur. Read the full test report they did find something I those self reported EMF suffers had a larger than expected abnormal medical test results. :roll:
Also number of other tests did find a connection but others where not able to reproduce so they investigated the methodology and other found issues witb the methodology. That is not a validation or a rejection just a difference of opinion on what are facts and what value exists.
I do have a background in research in the presentation of data and the securing of raw data as it pertains to research. I had no role in interpretation or publishing of such. I have been floored how data looks one way to me and findings of researchers only once.
There is a market for scientific research. When money flows into studies and contain hard methodology choices ( duration very limited ) the LACK of findings are almost guaranteed. That is what I see here. Eariler broad studies find some correlation which panic electronic manufacturers they support many low cost cherrypicked studies with forced very very limited scope and a short time frame. Those studies produce exactly as wanted NO findings.

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EMF

#35 Post by Bird Dog »

In my area Catholics do not allow wi-fi in their schools.

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Moat
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#36 Post by Moat »

I'd bet another simple solution/test might be to use a section of metal window screening - say, 18" wide and maybe 28" long... tuck it under the front of the laptop, and circle the remainder up and over the top - clip it up to a good ground/earth. Seems the wire spacing (openings) of typical window screen is pretty close to what a microwave oven's window would use as a shield - my WAG would be that might work to block similar wavelengths (and longer, lower freqs).

Simple, quick and cheap test... possibly?

Probably induce a migraine just looking through the screening, though!

Bob

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#37 Post by RSH »

Just because of we do not have any evidence or any suitable testing options to prove if something isn't existing, doesn't mean, it isn't existing.

Most of all things that we nowadays know as "is existing" did exist already, when we didn't know anything about these things.

And for the results of studies and researches:

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Ted Dog
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#38 Post by Ted Dog »

hardest part of science is to have a ton of correlating effects and NOT having a reproducible scientific methodology to prove it. That is when the sharks circle and deep pockets start thowning money at researchers to OWN the knowledge and control the outcomes.
Second favorite is the coat tail research once a scientific methodology works to oncover results everybody studies it.. like coldfusion.

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#39 Post by Barkin »

Ted Dog wrote: I do have a background in research in the presentation of data and the securing of raw data as it pertains to research. I had no role in interpretation or publishing of such. I have been floored how data looks one way to me and findings of researchers only once.
There is a market for scientific research. When money flows into studies and contain hard methodology choices ( duration very limited ) the LACK of findings are almost guaranteed. That is what I see here. Eariler broad studies find some correlation which panic electronic manufacturers they support many low cost cherrypicked studies with forced very very limited scope and a short time frame. Those studies produce exactly as wanted NO findings.
If one single person can demonstrate they have EMF-sensitivity then the Randi million dollar prize is theirs.

No manipulation of raw data , or influence of the cabal of electronic manufacturers, could stop them from picking up a suitcase of cash from Mr Randi.

As yet no-one has won the the Randi million dollar prize, ( other prizes are available if you can prove you have ESP ).

At the risk of stating the obvious : if in a blind-test you cannot tell whether devices capable of emitting EMF are on or off you are not actually sensitive to EMF, and your belief you are sensitive to such things is false.

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Barkin
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Re: EMF

#40 Post by Barkin »

Bird Dog wrote:In my area Catholics do not allow wi-fi in their schools.
Religion and science are mutually exclusive.

( although it could be to restrict the Catholic priests access to paraphiliac-internet-pornography :¬)

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