Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[mcewanw]

I was excited to try this when I loaded it up on my old POS computer, but I ran out of ram quickly installing stuff. So I tried it on my brand new laptop with uefi, but couldn't get it to boot. Not sure if what I have to do to make it work.

I don't have any computer with uefi, so I can't comment about that. If you want help with what you call your old POS computer, you would need to give details about the machine. What CPU does it use, how much ram does it have, what filesystem (Linux extx, windows fat32 etc) are you storing debiandog too (or if to usb or cd or whatever) and so on. But this is the thread used for discussing DebianDog related development so you should post your help requests on the other thread. There is a link to that in post one of this thread.

[saintless]

I was excited to try this when I loaded it up on my old POS computer, but I ran out of ram quickly installing stuff. So I tried it on my brand new laptop with uefi, but couldn't get it to boot. Not sure if what I have to do to make it work.

Hi, Chili Dog.
Unfortunately I can't help without more information.
Here is the post regarding available boot methods in DebianDog:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... f83#771571
Please, post your setup configuration that does not boot and is there an error message?
Is it a hdd drive or usb drive frugall install and what is the boot code you use?
It is possible the kernel does not support your laptop hardware but I doubt that. Anyway we have separate newer kernel modules to try if you decide to test.

If you can make Puppy boot on your UEFI machine like this for example:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/fa ... drive.html
you will be able to boot DebianDog changing the menu entry only.
There are tutorials how to install DebianWheezy but only for full install.

Toni

Edit: Thank you, William!

[fredx181]

Hi francois.E,

I have to ask:
You did all this?:

apt-get install xfce4-session xfwm4 xfce4-utils


And then change in /root/.xsession the line:
Code:
exec openbox-session

To:
Code:
exec startxfce4

Fred

[saintless]

Hope this helps.

It is very helpful.

Thank you for that detailed articulate answer.

I'm going to give it a try.

I just downloaded and booted it. WOW.

It did exactly what you said it would do. All I had to do was type the apt-get commands you showed me. Seeing the messages scrolling on the screen as the commands did their thing has now given me insight into what this package manager stuff is all about. It's starting to make a lot of sense.

apt-get successfully downloaded and installed python, and the newly-installed python correctly solved a large linear algebra problem with no errors.

You guys are amazing.

I know the following question is going to sound like the answer should be obvious, but I'd like to know: Is there some way I can save this python installation I've downloaded so I don't have to download it again? I ask because I booted from the LiveCD and have not frugal-installed yet and there is no personal save file yet. I left the Debian Dog machine running in case there is a simple way to save it before I shut it down.

Thanks for your help.

.

If you booted with live-boot-v3 (the default first menu entry) - no.
If you booted with live-boot-v2 or porteus-boot - yes.
But its OK anyway. You will reproduce your actions very easy with the same result again and again.
Are you running jwm or openbox version?
Do you have ext partition formated on the hard drive?
If yes and you did not boot the first live-boot-v3 menu entry, then for Jwm version run System->RemasterCow
(for openbox version run Create Module From Changes)
Then chose the partition and name for working folder (02-my-changes for example) and module 02-my-changes-squashfs (for example).
This will save your changes in separate sfs module.



Please, read the first few posts here in DebianDog-beta version thread and ask when something is unclear there.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 32b#771569

Toni

[Ether]

.

To give my answers context, I embedded them in the quote below:

If you booted with live-boot-v3 (the default first menu entry) - no.

I booted from V3

Are you running jwm or openbox version?

This is the ISO I downloaded:

http://smokey01.com/saintless/DebianDog ... m-beta.iso

Do you have ext partition formated on the hard drive?

Yes

If yes and you did not boot the first live-boot-v3 menu entry, then for Jwm version run System->RemasterCow

OK, I will reboot with v2 and try that. The "Remaster COW" GUI says it's better to run a script from the terminal. What would be the syntax for that command?

Please, read the first few posts here in DebianDog-beta version thread and ask when something is unclear there.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 32b#771569

I will go do that now

[saintless]

Hi, Ether.
RemasterCow menu entry will start the program with terminal open so just start it from the menu.
The new created module (squashfs) can be loaded after that with right click -> Scripts -> SFS-Load (Or from Utility-> SFS-Loader-new /or old) Or you can make frugal install and place it in /live folder. It will be loaded automatically on boot this way. Just note you can not load more than 8 squashfs modules in /live folder on boot.
You have also several save file/folder/partition options or full remaster of the main system module with all changes and installed programs with RemasterDog (same interface as RemasterCow).

When you need help just write.

Toni

[fredx181]

Hi Toni, William
Sometime ago I compiled a static ffmpeg.
It has the most common converting options included I think, e.g. mp3, vorbis, xvid, x264.
It's around 14MB
Not very new version but AFAIK newer than the one from debian stable.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCD ... sp=sharing

Fred

[mcewanw]

Hi Toni, William
Sometime ago I compiled a static ffmpeg.

Thanks Fred, I'll check your one out. I've had a quick look at the one from slitaz cooking, which seems to be even smaller, but that one seems to be lacking in encoding codecs compared to the ones I'm used to in Puppy (and it doesn't include ffplay).

I'm also thinking of trying libav-tools instead since Debian choose to support that over the related ffmpeg. That comes with a (probably somewhat old) version of ffmpeg, which works, because I've used it in Puppy Precise with pavrecord (webcam video and audio recorder). However, I'm actually thinking of modifying pavrecord to use avconv instead of (or in addition to in separate version) ffmpeg anyway.

Amongst other dependencies, Pavrecord depends on ffplay (which could be a symlink to avplay) and some compiles of ffmpeg don't have that included (in some very old Puppies it is not there for example). In theory, Pavrecord could just use mplayer instead of ffplay (it needs mplayer installed anyway), however I've never managed to successfully pipe video through mplayer without huge lags (I've tried all sorts of things to stop buffering), whereas ffplay works fine in a pipe (which is why it is currently needed in pavrecord)

EDIT: Just had a quick try of your ffmpeg Fred. Yes, it is quite convenient being a static compile so no extra libs needed. At a quick glance it seems to include all the main codecs including libfaac. Unfortunately, you also compiled it with ffplay disabled, so no use without that for pavrecord at least. We can also get static builds of ffmpeg from http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/static/32bit/, which is linked to be the official ffmpeg site; their ffmpeg is around 20MB though and also doesn't seem to come with ffplay.

EDIT2: I'm going to quickly install libav-tools from debian repository and see if that works and could be stripped down. OK, done that. Yes that includes a version of ffmpeg (1.0.8) and also ffplay. Seems to have all the codecs required. It is big as it stands of course (on my system was 11 MB compressed, 34 or so MB uncompressed; haven't tried on clean iso yet though). Hmmm, interesting, avconv is just a link to ffmpeg 1.0.8 - I thought debian were supporting avconv in preference. I haven't checked yet which deb repository it came from. EDIT3: Ah, I think it came from deb ftp://ftp.deb-multimedia.org wheezy main non-free rather than from official debian repository. From that site, (EDIT) libav-tools has ffmpeg as a dependency and has symlink frm avconv to that. I removed deb-multimedia repository and tried again - this time libav-tools doesn't include ffmpeg build, it only includes avconv (though a symlink to avconv may work with pavrecord - I'll try that). I've just downloaded the current iso so I'll try with that from clean install.

[saintless]

Thanks, Fred, William!

William, I try to avoid anything from non-free repository included in DebianDog and I use default sources only in /etc/apt/sources.lst
I'm not sure what is the state with ffmpeg and libav-utils dependencies but it is better to play safe and not to include dependencies from non-free debian repository. If we can use something from puppy or slitaz without this non-free issue it is better to get it from there for upload on the site.

Toni

[mcewanw]

If we can use something from puppy or slitaz without this non-free issue it is better to get it from there for upload on the site.

The problem is that I don't know what is non-free or not when it comes from Puppy or Slitaz. Otherwise, I'm sure I could find a smallish ffmpeg from some Puppy distribution that would work with, for example, pavrecord, which is my test case since it needs the most codecs probably. I think I read somewhere that Debian stable avconv provides a good range of codecs for playback but not so many for encoding/recording - they just provide an old ffmpeg I think, since the libav fork is what Debian currently supports instead.

EDIT: debian stable avconv seems to only include the experimental aac audio encoder, which is a limited encoder in terms of quality. However, it has the other codecs and also ffplay (as a symlink to avplay), which means pavrecord could be made to work fine. I already tested that avconv/ffmpeg with xrecord and it was fine (aside from that aac audio limitation). Problem with it is its size (uses so many dependencies!); Fred's static one looks nice (though I haven't tested it in operation) if he could recompile it with ffplay enabled (but I would like libfaac or libvo-aacenc included but not so sure of its non-free status either). Seems to be common to compile ffmpeg in Puppy with the option --enable-nonfree:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=79871

If ffmpeg/libav-tools is just an optional addon sfs module, I would suggest non-free enabled okay in which case we could compile our own version or try a Puppy one? Preferably libfaac since libvo-aacenc since the webpage below suggests libvo-aacenc is poor.

[saintless]

Hi, William.

I like to play fair according DFSG:
http://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html

the license allows modification and distribution, but the copyright holder said they interpreted this as allowing modification, and allowing distribution of unmodified copies, but as not allowing distribution of modified copies. We respected their wishes, considered the software non-free, and removed it from Debian.

I like to prevent further troubles for Smokey and this forum in general.
I prefer to make instruction how to easy compile what is needed for DebianDog from the user.

Toni

[mcewanw]

I prefer to make instruction how to easy compile what is needed for DebianDog from the user.

I think many potential users won't want to compile. However, I think ffmpeg is the main problem case. I don't think we would have any issue if Fred wouldn't mind recompiling his version without enabling non-free (meaning we can't use libfaac, but that's okay) but include ffplay and also libvo-aacenc since that encoder is under GPL. We would then be in a position to create a special Puppylookalike sfs addon that included ffmpeg and many of the currently not provided small Puppy utilities and gtkdialog frontends.

[saintless]

Hi, William.

I don't know what Fred thinks and feels about compiling new version, but something is unclear for me:

Isn't it possible full functional ffmpeg to be installed via apt-get or Synaptic from the user without any compiling involved for the price of larger size?
I would be very surprised if Debian user has to compile ffmpeg instead simple apt-get install procedure.

Maybe I miss something about ffmpeg install procedure but from what I can tell installing avidemux for example will auto-install all needed software to convert audio/video formats.

If the user wants smaller version of ffmpeg with the same functionality then the user will have to learn to compile since some dependencies are non-free.
I don't feel right to violate some software license just because the user doesn't want to learn to compile but finds the size of apt-get downloaded version too big.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Hi, William.

I don't know what Fred thinks and feels about compiling new version, but something is unclear for me:

Isn't it possible full functional ffmpeg to be installed via apt-get or Synaptic from the user without any compiling involved for the price of larger size?...

If the user wants smaller version of ffmpeg with the same functionality then the user will have to learn to compile since some dependencies are non-free.
I don't feel right to violate some software license just because the user doesn't want to learn to compile but finds the size of apt-get downloaded version too big.

:-) Of course they can enable the non-free repositories (as is the case in DebianDog release anyway) and download avidemux (and/or also full ffmpeg). I guess only the user is then potentially violating any software licence :-) The default active deb-multimedia repo provides all that as you know:

Code: Select all

deb ftp://ftp.deb-multimedia.org wheezy main non-free

My only reasons for thinking about a much smaller ffmpeg is that I had it in mind that some users (not myself) might like to keep DebianDog Puppylike in terms of size, and ffmpeg from Debian repositories (free or non-free) kind of goes against that philosophy. I also thought it would be nice to put together an sfs that included small ffmpeg along with various Puppy utilities, several of which need ffmpeg, such as ffconvert and Pavrecord. Avidemux, which I've never used, apparently employs inbuilt versions of ffmpeg codecs, free and non-free depending on how it is compiled and it is not in debian standard repos because of the non-free components I presume.

Anyway, you make a fair point that most anything can be added using apt-get or Synaptics by the user, which avoids us worrying about licencing issues, and larger apt packages can be converted into sfs files for use as and when desired. I'll make a small ffmpeg for my own use probably but I'll keep it secret from the world if I'm violating any licencing conditions in the version I'm using at home! ;-)

[saintless]

Thanks, William.
For good or bad I like to follow official debian policy for DebianDog. Even if this means the user is not happy about that.

Of course they can enable the non-free repositories (as is the case in DebianDog release anyway) and download avidemux (and/or also full ffmpeg). I guess only the user is then potentially violating any software licence

The user is not violating non-free license by installing software for personal use from non-free repository or distributing the downloaded separate deb files. Official distribution of modified non-free software or software containing non-free packages does that from what I read.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Yes, you're right Toni. I also read the problem as being in the distribution of packages containing non-free components. Moreover, the small DebianDog iso is the important piece when it comes to a very convenient download. Considering the low cost of multi-GB usb flash devices nowadays, size of installed apps thereafter isn't really all that important anyway.

[stemsee]

I just built debian wheezy using woof ce, self compiled kernel 3.13.9-emsee-pae, It's rather nice.

I also built precise 5.7.1 yesterday with the same kernel and ubuntu precise updates. both shared from my google drive.

wheezy
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4GhZV ... sp=sharing

precise
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4GhZV ... sp=sharing


Let me know how you like them.

stemsee

[mcewanw]

That's great stemsee and perhaps from experience of your wheezy-based puppy you'll be able to make useful contributions to DebianDog development. Bear in mind however, that DebianDog is a Debian-live based system given the size, and some of the look and feel of a Puppy distribution. It is not however a Puppy per se. DebianDog doesn't use woof and uses Debian's dpkg with apt-get and/or Synaptics for package management. In that light, you probably should start a new thread for discussions of your Puppy-wheezy creation since this thread concentrates purely on DebianDog developments really.

[saintless]

Hi, William.
Can you help me with this, please:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 753#773220
I need proper instruction for xhippo and xrecord + if you have some better screenshot for xhippo and xrecord in action. I can make more but you know those apps much better than me.
Thanks in advance.

Stemsee, thank you, but I can't promise I will have time to test them in the next few days. I will do it when I get a chance. If you open separate thread post a link here, please.

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, William.

Just for information, I don't know if this result is a good one but I just tested:

Code: Select all

apt-get install ffmpeg

It was around 44 Mb uncompressed.
Then using RemasterCow and after quick manually cleaning I have 8,1 Mb sfs file.
This is the output from this separate ffmpeg module:

Code: Select all

root@debian:~# ffmpeg
ffmpeg version 1.0.8 Copyright (c) 2000-2013 the FFmpeg developers
  built on Sep 12 2013 11:54:40 with gcc 4.7 (Debian 4.7.2-5)
  configuration: --prefix=/usr --extra-cflags='-g -O2 -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wformat -Werror=format-security ' --extra-ldflags='-Wl,-z,relro' --cc='ccache cc' --enable-shared --enable-libmp3lame --enable-gpl --enable-nonfree --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-libfaac --enable-libxvid --enable-postproc --enable-x11grab --enable-libgsm --enable-libtheora --enable-libopencore-amrnb --enable-libopencore-amrwb --enable-libx264 --enable-libspeex --enable-nonfree --disable-stripping --enable-libvpx --enable-libschroedinger --disable-encoder=libschroedinger --enable-version3 --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-librtmp --enable-avfilter --enable-libfreetype --enable-libvo-aacenc --disable-decoder=amrnb --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-libaacplus --libdir=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu --disable-vda --enable-libbluray --enable-libcdio --enable-gnutls --enable-frei0r --enable-openssl --enable-libass --enable-libopus --enable-fontconfig --enable-libfdk-aac --enable-libdc1394 --disable-altivec --disab  libavutil      51. 73.101 / 51. 73.101
  libavcodec     54. 59.100 / 54. 59.100
  libavformat    54. 29.104 / 54. 29.104
  libavdevice    54.  2.101 / 54.  2.101
  libavfilter     3. 17.100 /  3. 17.100
  libswscale      2.  1.101 /  2.  1.101
  libswresample   0. 15.100 /  0. 15.100
  libpostproc    52.  0.100 / 52.  0.100
Hyper fast Audio and Video encoder
usage: ffmpeg [options] [[infile options] -i infile]... {[outfile options] outfile}...

Use -h to get full help or, even better, run 'man ffmpeg'
root@debian:~# 

I think 8 Mb is not too much since every user can do it easy.

Toni