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Norbert Dentressangle
Joined: 16 Mar 2014 Posts: 30
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Posted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 21:15 Post subject:
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That said, I suppose I could do the obvious (which I kind of forgot) which is to create a partition and run both Windows and Linux, alternately from the same disk. Problem with that is, it's not an awfully up to date machine and I seem to be only JUST within the requirements for running XP as it. Maybe Pup won't take up too much space? You'd probably be the best person to advise on that. What would you say? I have a few other reservations, though.
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Semme

Joined: 07 Aug 2011 Posts: 7827 Location: World_Hub
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Posted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 21:15 Post subject:
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Hey Chris, this has "GOT-TO-BE" the shortest reply I've ever seen you post. Short on breath tonight, are we?
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Moat

Joined: 16 Jul 2013 Posts: 813 Location: Mid-mitten, USA
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Posted: Sat 29 Mar 2014, 22:45 Post subject:
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Norbert Dentressangle wrote: | Did I try booting from live CD?
I did (with Ubuntu last week) but it was so slow that I gave up out of sheer boredom. |
I'm guessing Flash meant to ask if you tried booting Puppy from a live CD. Puppy is not like Ubuntu, when running from a CD. Unlike Ubuntu (or the vast majority of other Linux distros), Puppy is specifically designed to run from CD/USB, by loading itself entirely into RAM, and is therefore blisteringly fast - whether running from CD or USB flash stick. Booting from a CD, you can create a (Pup)save file onto the computer's hard drive, in order to save changes/app additions/personal settings etc... i.e. - persistence.
Running from CD with a savefile on HD is actually a very good method - and you can just remove the CD if/when you want to boot to Windows instead.
I'd recommend you burn a Puppy .iso (or five - they're addicting! ) to CD and give it a spin that way. Who knows... you may not even like it enough to bother trying to get the BIOS/USB boot issue sorted out. Worth a shot!
Bob
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Ol'Duffer

Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 12 Location: Tanas by PDX
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Posted: Sun 30 Mar 2014, 00:19 Post subject:
Boot Puppy ISO(s) on Toshiba Satellite, maybe from USB Subject description: Don't give up, there's hope. |
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If you find J7, you can own the computer you paid for.
Documentation with a motherboard diagram, perhaps from Toshiba Support or their forums, might help. ............. Barring that, save time and hire help.
Some BIOS quirks include "recognizing" a USB flash drive as USB-HDD or USB-ZIP or USB-FDD or ... depending on how it's formatted - or partitioned, formatted, and flagged. Depending on quality and design, some sticks take a while to be detected. Have you ever been able to boot this computer from USB? The technique may require details about your particular model's specs. There's a lot of info at RMprepUSB.
You can test many ISOs "live" with just one USB flash stick; there are several tools available for this. Some provide for multiboot, avoiding destruction of an existing filesystem; others simplify life for developers by destroying the existing partition table. Either approach avoids "burning" plastic discs.
Whether you want to dual-boot may depend on how much hard drive space is available; selection will depend on what fits in available RAM.
For XP, there's a tool called grub2win that may be useful, since it avoids upsetting Windows, but it takes a little hacking.
Meanwhile, XP can be trained, and good backup-copy discipline can reduce agony to endurance; with a legit XP setup ISO, nLite and Xable can become your good friends.
Last edited by Ol'Duffer on Sun 30 Mar 2014, 14:56; edited 1 time in total
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cthisbear
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 4261 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sun 30 Mar 2014, 06:36 Post subject:
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Semme:
Got me mate.
Of course I was thinking of Professor BC....ahem!....
when i posted.
SometimesSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS it's just so hard for some.
Cheers...Chris.
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Les Kerf
Joined: 24 Jun 2012 Posts: 311
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Posted: Sun 30 Mar 2014, 08:22 Post subject:
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Norbert Dentressangle wrote: | ... Problem with that is, it's not an awfully up to date machine and I seem to be only JUST within the requirements for running XP as it... |
This is EXACTLY the type of machine for which Puppy was designed.
I highly recommend trying several Puppys from live CD, then perhaps graduate to a USB or even a frugal install.
I have been using several methods with my various machines; on my Acer Aspire laptop I use what I call a Poor Man's Frugal install. I boot from a CD, but have the save file and Lucid SFS file on the hard drive. This way I didn't have to change the bootloader, and when I need to boot Win 7 (for work) I just open the CD drive and let it boot up.
Les
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Norbert Dentressangle
Joined: 16 Mar 2014 Posts: 30
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Posted: Thu 03 Apr 2014, 22:02 Post subject:
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Thanks.
What is 'Frugal Install'?
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Norbert Dentressangle
Joined: 16 Mar 2014 Posts: 30
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Posted: Thu 03 Apr 2014, 22:12 Post subject:
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Les Kerf wrote: |
I have been using several methods with my various machines; on my Acer Aspire laptop I use what I call a Poor Man's Frugal install. I boot from a CD, but have the save file and Lucid SFS file on the hard drive. This way I didn't have to change the bootloader, and when I need to boot Win 7 (for work) I just open the CD drive and let it boot up.
Les |
Cheers, Les. I THINK I follow the idea, but don't really understand the details. I need to do more study, I think, because at the moment, this is all just Quantum Physics to me. I WANT to do this, but unfortunately, I'm struggling to understand what half of you are actually saying to me.
Can anyone suggest any good online 'Idiot Guide' to all this? I really want to get in on this, but there are just too many terms and abbreviations I don't understand.
Ol'Duffer wrote: | Have you ever been able to boot this computer from USB? |
Erm... no.
I've looked inside for J7 but all I see is a circuit board. TBH, I'm not even sure what a J7 is, because I don't actually know what it's supposed to look like yet. I was expecting to see two spring terminals, marked "J7" but there's nothing like that in here.
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Puppus Dogfellow

Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 1519 Location: nyc
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Posted: Thu 03 Apr 2014, 23:09 Post subject:
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norbert, you don't need to be familiar with anything to do a frugal install from a burned CD. just follow the popups. it will explain the options you have when it is time to shut down.
that said, the frugal off a CD method works very well for me with precise 5.6, as it did with 5.5. and 5.4 of that series and slacko 5.3.
basically you are using the CD/DVD drive (and the hard drive if/when you agree to the "copy sfs to drive" popup after the initial setup and before the first shutdown) to load the operating system into the machine's RAM (very fast so don't be dissuaded by the use of a CD--it's for show after the system boots with this method) and making a compressed file on the machine to hold your stuff and changes (though you are not restricted to that space).
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Ol'Duffer

Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 12 Location: Tanas by PDX
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Posted: Thu 03 Apr 2014, 23:27 Post subject:
Add Linux to XP laptop, How to Subject description: Beginner needs gentle instructions |
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(Looks like I'm not the only one helping - take what you need.)
1. Use simple wisdom. Make a list of what you need, and another list of what you want. Find backup method(s), make sure every restore procedure(s) actually works. First. Remember, like all material things, any system can fail.
2. Find out what you have - exact specifications, parts' model numbers. To save time, consider freeware that reveals it for you, like Piriform's Speccy.
If you can interrupt the start ("boot") process by pressing a key like F12, do it, and write down your basic options - one computer will "recognize" a USB flash drive as "Removable", another will claim it sees the same exact stick as some kind of ZIP or HDD drive. If you can start it from a USB flash stick or CD/DVD instead of your hard drive, several more diagnostic tools (hdt, hwinfo, PartEd_Magic) can help.
Toshiba is still in business. You can likely find documentation of your precise model at their website(s), perhaps even your specific unit, as well as see what others have found in their forum (which may mean scanning over unrelated confusion).
3. Jumpers are stiff little pins sticking up out of a circuit board. Connecting them in certain combinations is like flipping a switch (best done while power is OFF, with an insulated "jumper"), and changes the computer's settings. The name "J7" implies a group of (at least) seven, usually in one or two rows. IF you can get a diagram specific to your model, it would go a long way toward ownership.
4. If you decide to install a second OS on your hard drive, instead of always operating from USB/CD, you have options. It's not necessary to let the 2nd OS take over the MBR (Master_Boot_Record) of the entire hard drive; there's a way designed to work in harmony with XP using its own startup script, a "secret" "system" plain-text file named boot.ini - often called grub2win.
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English Invader
Joined: 01 Apr 2014 Posts: 11
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Posted: Fri 04 Apr 2014, 05:33 Post subject:
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There is some software called PLOP that enables non-USB-booting machines to boot from USB. It can be installed from Windows or you can run it from a CD or a floppy disk. The standard boot order in BIOS starts with floppy disk followed by CD so you shouldn't need to change anything.
http://www.plop.at/en/ploplinux/index.html
Bear in mind that this software is trying to make a computer do something it wasn't designed to do so expect it to be a bit buggy (the force USB options in the settings menu sometimes helps).
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don570

Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 4988 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Sat 05 Apr 2014, 12:50 Post subject:
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If you use Plop (either a CD install or HD install of PLOP) make sure you have only
one USB mass storage device attached at bootup .
So when I bootup from a USB stick I first make sure that it is the only stick
inserted.
________________________________________________________
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sheldonisaac
Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 717 Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Posted: Sat 05 Apr 2014, 13:30 Post subject:
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Probably this is not enough to help Norbert..
On this Latitude D610,
I plugged in a USB thumbdrive from a few years ago.
Rebooted, pressed F12, chose USB drive from the list of what to boot from, and it booted.
Code: | fdisk /dev/sdb
Command (m for help): p
Disk /dev/sdb: 4051 MB, 4051697664 bytes
125 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1021 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 7750 * 512 = 3968000 bytes
Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdb1 * 1 1021 3956344 83 Linux
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Code: | ls -la /mnt/sdb1/
total 165080
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2013-12-26 04:05 .
drwxr-xr-x 15 root root 120 2014-04-05 13:36 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 220049 2013-12-26 04:05 grldr
-rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 1905316 2013-12-15 22:36 initrd.gz
drwx------ 2 root root 16384 2013-12-26 16:58 lost+found
-rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 128323616 2013-12-15 22:36 lupu_528.sfs
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1515 2013-12-26 04:05 menu.lst
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 512 2013-12-26 04:05 sdb_mbr.bak
-rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 2228944 2013-12-15 22:36 vmlinuz
-rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 36134944 2013-12-15 22:36 zl528332.sfs |
_________________ Dell E6410: Xenial, etc
Dell Mini 9, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P, PowerBook G4
Intel D865GBF, Intel DQ35JOE
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sheldonisaac
Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 717 Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Posted: Sat 05 Apr 2014, 13:41 Post subject:
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Les Kerf wrote: | Norbert Dentressangle wrote: | ... Problem with that is, it's not an awfully up to date machine and I seem to be only JUST within the requirements for running XP as it... |
This is EXACTLY the type of machine for which Puppy was designed.
I highly recommend trying several Puppys from live CD, then perhaps graduate to a USB or even a frugal install.
Les |
Oh, good. Les. If Norbert can burn a boot Puppy CD on any computer, he's on the way!
Maybe on his own, under MS-Windows, with burncdcc?
_________________ Dell E6410: Xenial, etc
Dell Mini 9, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P, PowerBook G4
Intel D865GBF, Intel DQ35JOE
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Shep
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 Posts: 880 Location: Australia
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Posted: Fri 25 Apr 2014, 23:36 Post subject:
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Norbert Dentressangle wrote: | Anyway, back to the BIOS. The jumper, I have discovered, is at J7. I'm to remove the CMOS battery (allow to dissipate). Then remove all power supplies (inc. main battery) and replace the CMOS battery while jumpering the J7. I've looked inside the machine and can't find J7. |
9 times out of 10 the letters "J7" will be painted on the motherboard. In small print, of course. You need a good flashlight (or take the computer out into the sunlight), a good set of spectacles or a magnifying glass, and closely scrutinize the tiny printing all around your board. You'll probably be able to locate at least a few J's, they are usually numbered in order around the board, not haphazardly. Once you know what to look for, you'll quickly spot the others.
At a guess, J7 may be close to the battery. It might happen to be the one jumper on your MB that's not labelled! But if it's positioned between J6 and j8, well ....
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