Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

For talk and support relating specifically to Puppy derivatives
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saintless
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#1941 Post by saintless »

mcewanw wrote:Just a reminder note, though I expect you know this Toni: TimeZone command is only appearing in debian menu, not in jwm puppy menu. I also needed to run that to setup my timezone to get correct time display.
Hi, William.
I know. Puppy-menu is still experimental till we fix it and make it default. It will have all entries for the next version. Just not sure as desktop files or hardcoded in jwm.head yet.

Do you have ready set up bookmarks file to include it. I think we have also to change deny to accept in cookiesrc file.

Toni

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saintless
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#1942 Post by saintless »

mcewanw wrote:I just installed iceweasel in latest DebianDog using apt-get. I note that it doesn't appear in jwm puppy menu and making it default browser. What is the current recommended procedure for fixing that until Terry's menu builder is finished?
Manual change from Utilities -> Set Dflt Apps default_web-browser to point to iceweasel executable.
Or as Fred did it:
fredx181 wrote:Not sure how Utilities -> Set Default Apps works, but the following:

Code: Select all

ln -s /usr/bin/dillo /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser # first create link to make dillo official debian-browser
ln -snf /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser /usr/local/bin/default_web-browser # link default_web-browser to official debian-browser
worked for me.
After this I installed iceweasel and default_web-browser changed from dillo to iceweasel.
Toni

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fredx181
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#1943 Post by fredx181 »

Hi All,
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an experimental thing I've been working on.
It doesn't fit exactly in the category "pure-debian".
It's more like the puppy way of creating and loading modules (sfs).
Please try and share your opinion.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

apt2sfs is a gui application using yad as frontend to create a module from downloaded files by apt-get.
To use it choose a drive for the working directory to be created and type name(s) of package(s).
The package(s) will be downloaded only (not installed!) along with the dependencies.
The deb packages will be extracted in a directory named after the chosen packages before squashfs module is created.
This means that the packages are NOT regularly installed and therefore are not registered by dpkg.
This has advantages and disadvantages
Advantages:
- dpkg cannot be broken because it knows nothing at all about these packages.
- the module can be loaded on the fly, almost without making any changes to the base system.
(except for possibly leaving behind some files in $HOME or $HOME/.config)

Disadvantages:
- Some applications may not work because e.g. depending on startup at boot or special postinstall script to run.
- Dependencies may not be all satisfied, therefore it is recommended to create the module with an empty save file so that apt "knows" about what dependencies are required from a basic DebianDog.(this will result to get larger size of module but gives more guarantee to work as expected).
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
loadmodule is a script that will load the module "on the fly"
This incuded loadmodule is for DebianDog (live-rw boot method).
For Porteus-Wheezy you can use the right-click option in Thunar ((de)activate module)
Note that a module can be acivated only from an "actual" mounted storage like /mnt/sda1 (so activating from e.g. /root or /tmp doesn't work).

Usage:
loadmodule -a /path/to/module.squashfs # will activate module
NOTE: A restart of X is needed to e.g. show application in menu.

loadmodule -d /path/to/module.squashfs # will deactivate module.

Update from previous loadmodule script (as also used in Sergey's sfs load application)
- Now full path of module can be used.
- Improved error checking (and yad messages)

A strange thing I noticed and cannot explain is that the application(s) from the loaded module won't show up in menu when using the debian-menu.
Using the menu-puppy is fine.
------------------------------
I hope it will be useful somehow.

apt2sfs+loadmodule_debiandog:
EDIT 2014-03-22:
New upload.
With some improvements:
- choice to run 'apt-get update' first.
- some cleaning will be done (man pages, docs, help)

Regards
Fred
Attachments
apt2sfs+loadmodule_debiandog.tar
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apt2sfs_in_action1.png
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apt2sfs_in_action2.png
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Last edited by fredx181 on Sat 22 Mar 2014, 18:36, edited 3 times in total.

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saintless
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#1944 Post by saintless »

Thank you, Fred!
I will test it tomorrow (too late tonight) and I'm sure it is fine addition to DebainDog and Porteus Wheezy. I think Terry was looking for something similar.

Toni

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#1945 Post by sunburnt »

Toni; I just thought... Did you look inside .deb packages to find desktop files.?
I think the ".diff" file makes some of the desktop files during the install.
The diff file is to make-up differences in raw packages so they`re Debian.
This way Debian does not change the original package until install time.
# This may be old depreciated info., I`m not sure...

Fred; This sounds exacty like what I was talking about awhile back.
The type of add-on Squash file that sfsload would be used for.

As you say, there`s advantages and disadvantages to it.
But you don`t have to uninstall the app. after the new package is made.
.

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#1946 Post by sunburnt »

Guys; Here is a new script "folder-changes".
It makes desktop files for all new menu files it finds.
It also deletes desktop files that match menu files that are deleted.
So it should mirror installing and uninstalling.
It does not copy over desktop files of the same name,
It makes new desktop files in: /tmp/desktop
# Uses "comm", a very useful utility for comparing differences.
And uses debmenu2desktop that uses debmenu2desktop.convert

# For this test, deleting and copying is disabled.

First time it`s run, it makes a file list: /etc/jwm/menu.diff
The next time you run it, it will show nothing... No changes.
If a menu file is added to /usr/share/menu , it will show in : # Add.
Delete the menu file and run again, and it will show in: # Del.

# And to go with it, a new "debmenu2desktop.convert" file.
I fixed it so it makes desktop files named the same as the menu files.
Attachments
NEW_2-Items_3563.zip
Put both in /opt/bin
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saintless
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#1947 Post by saintless »

Hi, Terry.
Guys; Here is a new script "folder-changes".
It makes desktop files for all new menu files it finds.
Quick tested today. I will test it more. Seems to work fine. Finds new and deleted files and gives output list in terminal. I think this is what we need. I will try to deactivate copy and delete and test it in the next days installing and uninstalling new apps.
sunburnt wrote:Toni; I just thought... Did you look inside .deb packages to find desktop files.?
Yes, most debian packages have separate desktop and separate menu file included. I don't think diff is used for that. At least not in wheezy.

Toni

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#1948 Post by saintless »

fredx181 wrote:A strange thing I noticed and cannot explain is that the application(s) from the loaded module won't show up in menu when using the debian-menu.
Using the menu-puppy is fine.
Hi, Fred.
Tested with gtkam and few others small apps. Works fine and easy to use.
We will include it in DebianDog also. I guess it can be used to produce portable applications for any linux this way. Not only sfs modules for frugal linux.

About the menu file not showing up in Debian menu - this is the same problem we face for any portable application like pburn, geany etc. I guess update-menus is looking inside some file to see if there is a registered package with the same name. Or more likely dpkg -configure package-name does something needed to make the menu file appear.
For example after creating sfs module with Gtkam it does not appear in debian menu with this content:

Code: Select all

?package(gtkam):needs="X11" \
  section="Applications/Viewers" \
  title="gtkam" \
But changing package name to registered one this way makes it appear in the menu.

Code: Select all

?package(epdfview):needs="X11" \
  section="Applications/Viewers" \
  title="gtkam" \
I doubt we can do something to fix this. Leave it this way. Terry's menu will be the default one anyway.

Toni
Last edited by saintless on Sat 22 Mar 2014, 07:14, edited 1 time in total.

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#1949 Post by saintless »

Terry,
A problem might become from the way /usr/share/menu files are structured. Some menu files like xfe and x11-utils for example have several menu entries in one file. I guess it will create some issues.
I'm not sure desktop file can have more than one menu entry inside. The count of menu and desktop files will never be the same for the same programs installed.
It will need some manual edit from time to time for such multiple packages in one menu file I guess but this is not so bad.

Toni

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#1950 Post by sunburnt »

Toni; I noticed that menu files have multiple entries.
My file debmenu2desktop should generate a file for each entry.

# folder-changes already has the copy and delete turned off.

# I posted a Q about Debian menu and desktop files at Debian forum.
I`m guessing Debian only makes deb-menu files, and the original
package maker is responsible for any desktop files in the package.

# Do all Debian packages have menu files.?
I think so... So if this is what Debian supports, lets use it.
I don`t know Debian packages well ( as you can tell...).

I like desktop files better then debmenu files, but it does not matter.
Desktop files are a waste of time if debmenu files are Debian`s std.

# I`m going to paste the debmenu parse code into a new mk-menu.
Then with Toni`s help, I`ll make it output IceWM menus as well.

I`ll also make a new debmenu editor like the desktop editor I made.
Then it will be easy to make new debmenu files for our apps.
.

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#1951 Post by saintless »

Hi, Terry.

AFAIK the desktop files are used from different WM like KDE and others that prefer to have their own generate menu method different from debian one. I guess you are right the desktop files are placed inside from the package developers.

It will be nice to have same method to convert IceWM menu.
The corresponding jwm.main file for IceWM is /etc/X11/icewm/programs or $HOME/.icewm/programs if we move it separate for each user.
Corresponding Jwm.head file for Icewm is $HOME/.icewm/menu
We can't use something similar to jwm.tail in IceWM. I think this part of the menu is auto-generated by $HOME/.icewm/preferences At least we can hide the shutdown menu from this file.

Toni

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apt2sfs+loadmodule_debiandog

#1952 Post by sklimkin »

Thank you Fred.

'apt2sfs+loadmodule_debiandog' -wonderful addition to the system as a whole.
In my opinion a compact system that can design their own versions of the new, is one of the main advantages of DebianDog (Debian and Porteus).
The user has another effective tool for experimentation and improvement of the system in the right (to him - user) direction.
Unmet dependencies inherent in almost all implementations of Linux, this is the reality. Methods of dealing with this phenomenon known to us.

Sergey.

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#1953 Post by fredx181 »

Hi Toni
For example after creating sfs module with Gtkam it does not appear in debian menu with this content:
Code:
?package(gtkam):needs="X11" \
section="Applications/Viewers" \
title="gtkam" \

But changing package name to registered one this way makes it appear in the menu.
Code:
?package(epdfview):needs="X11" \
section="Applications/Viewers" \
title="gtkam" \
Aahh, of course, I should have known, noticed already you did that with some applications.

Fred

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#1954 Post by fredx181 »

Thanks Sergey,

I was expecting at least some rotten tomatoes throwing at me.
But maybe they come later... :D

Fred

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#1955 Post by saintless »

Hi, Fred.
fredx181 wrote:I was expecting at least some rotten tomatoes throwing at me.
I'm sure no one here will do that :)
Just a thought for extra option.
It needs apt-get update to be run before starting apt2sfs. Maybe running apt-get update at program start up as default?

Toni

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#1956 Post by saintless »

Terry,
I'm thinking to make desktop files for all missing apps.
It is better to have them this way instead of hardcoded jwm.head. it will be easier to remove desktop and menu file than editing $home/.jwm/jwm.head and /etc/skel/.jwm/jwm.head and the corresponding IceWm menu files if you make the same menu method for IceWM.

Toni

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#1957 Post by sunburnt »

# You guys have used Debian packages more than me I think.

### Do most all Debian packages have the menu files in them.? ( You`d think so...)

# This is critical... If many packages lack menu files, then they`re no better than desktop files.


Toni; To make the top & bottom menu items from desktop/menu files. how do we order them.?
The best way I can think of is to use the menu-root.lst file.
In the menu-root.lst file, have a key word ( App ) and the menu file name.
# Like this:
App xterm
App dillo

The menu file name refers to desktop files or Deb. menu files, which ever is being used.
Fairly easy to add the needed mk-menu code to do this.
# But... The top menu items use default_ links. Perhaps a way to still use them.?
.

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saintless
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#1958 Post by saintless »

Hi, Terry.
### Do most all Debian packages have the menu files in them.? ( You`d think so...)
# This is critical... If many packages lack menu files, then they`re no better than desktop files.
All deb packages in debian squeezy, wheezy, jessie, sid repository have /usr/share/menu files. Some of them do not have /usr/share/applications desktop files.
All deb packages from debain based distros will have /usr/share/applications desktop files. Most likely will not have at all /usr/share/menu file.
We use mostly official debian repository and we can be sure all packages we use have /usr/share/menu file

Toni; To make the top & bottom menu items from desktop/menu files. how do we order them.?
The best way I can think of is to use the menu-root.lst file.
In the menu-root.lst file, have a key word ( App ) and the menu file name.
# Like this:
App xterm
App dillo

The menu file name refers to desktop files or Deb. menu files, which ever is being used.
Fairly easy to add the needed mk-menu code to do this.
# But... The top menu items use default_ links. Perhaps a way to still use them.?
.
I'm not sure what you try to order. I like alphabetical order as it is now in 01-v7.squashfs Why do you want to change it and to have more complicated root-menu.list
Menu-root.list makes the top categories only at the moment.

Toni

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#1959 Post by saintless »

Terry, the top and bootom if I understand right are lwm.head and lwm.tail?
I already have bottom Shutdown items in one menu category.
The top items from jwm.head will be placed in system and utility folders mostly. Manual changing the section inside the desktop file will do it.

Only Default terminal and Default Web-browser will stay on top of the menu.

Toni

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#1960 Post by saintless »

Terry.
Download the attached archive with current configuration I have and extract the zip. It includes your latest mk-jwm.main + all desktop and menu files.
Load it with SFS-Loader or place 02-menu-test.squashfs in /live with 10-v7.squashfs and reboot. make sure not to have save file in use.
Run menu-debian and menu-puppy to see the changes. The top terminal and browser will not have icons but i forgot to add the changes in the squashfs for them.
I know much more has to be edited and sorted.
Write what you think about this.

Toni
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