Blue Pup V6 Released 11th Oct 2014 32-bit

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bigpup
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#21 Post by bigpup »

"It takes strength to resist the dark side. Only the weak embrace it!"
You have moved to the dark side of the force. :shock: :evil: :twisted:

Hey! If they can do it, why not Puppy!
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The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

gcmartin

#22 Post by gcmartin »

Problem needing advice
  1. Download Blue and copy md5 to same folder
  2. Run md5sum to validate download. It matches.
  3. Expand download onto USB using the following 2 commands:
    1. # xz --decompress --stdout quirky-6.1-8gb.img.xz > /dev/sdb
    2. # sync
    Booting USB produces kernel panic after syslinux during vmlinux load.
Suggest an approach to try.

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ETP
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Blue Pup (V2 Released 13th March 2014)

#23 Post by ETP »

Hi gcmartin,

I am assuming you downloaded Blue Pup V2. You therefore need:

Code: Select all

# xz --decompress --stdout blue_pup_v2_8gb.img.xz > /dev/sdb
# sync
That assumes the stick is not mounted and is definitely seen as sdb.
Regards ETP
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[url=http://tinyurl.com/kennels2/]Kennels[/url]

gcmartin

Re: Blue Pup (V2 Released 13th March 2014)

#24 Post by gcmartin »

ETP wrote:Hi gcmartin,

I am assuming you downloaded Blue Pup V2. You therefore need:

Code: Select all

# xz --decompress --stdout blue_pup_v2_8gb.img.xz > /dev/sdb
# sync
That assumes the stick is not mounted and is definitely seen as sdb.
Yes, I did. The original message is a copy-paste typo error on my part. I used the command just as you show.

I am currently redoing the USB stick by blanking it first, and rerunning the commands.

Any recommendations welcomed

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ETP
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Re: Blue Pup (V2 Released 13th March 2014)

#25 Post by ETP »

Hi gcmartin,
I suggest that you use Gparted to wipe that stick and then create a single fat32 partition on it. Then use my recommended method from the very first post:
7-Zip should be used to decompress the 8GB image. (The PortableApps.com version is recommended)

A well illustrated guide to using win32diskimager can be found here:

https://meego.com/devices/netbook/insta ... structions
The stick should be at least 8gb.
Regards ETP
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[url=http://tinyurl.com/kennels2/]Kennels[/url]

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ETP
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Blue Pup (V2 Released 13th March 2014)

#26 Post by ETP »

Looking back over this thread, I note that there has been one reported success in creating a stick using the Linux method and two failures.

When drafting the original post I had doubts about mentioning using Linux to decompress and place the image on a stick given that in my view 7-Zip and win32diskimager are the best tools for the job.
I included it however knowing that some people would not possess Windows and others have an aversion to using it.

To recap the commands for Blue Pup V2 are: (substitute actual target device letter for X)

Code: Select all

# xz --decompress --stdout blue_pup_v2_8gb.img.xz > /dev/sdX
# sync
Why I do not favour the Linux method.

1. There is no feedback and the time taken to execute the first command can be up to 30 minutes. (You can monitor it using HTOP)

2. It is slow because it makes very poor use of memory and CPU cycles.

3. It does everything in one hit which gives more margins for failure.

4. A user may prematurely abort a command before it has finished resulting in a non-bootable build.

Why my weapons of choice are 7-Zip and win32diskimager.

1. They both provide visual feedback and make better use of memory and the CPU.

2. The complete job (decompress/write image) takes less than half the time.

3. Less likely to accidentally wipe hard drive as only removable devices are listed by Win32 Disk Imager.

4. If the target is of insufficient capacity to receive the complete image
Win32diskimager will warn to that effect and will not proceed.

It is also worth mentioning that win32diskimager has a couple of other killer features.

A. Its ability to read i.e. clone a stick or card to an image.

B. If when browsing for an image you change *.img to *.* you can write a hybrid ISO to a card or stick.
This is very handy for booting a netbook that lacks an optical drive but can boot from USB as the BIOS will treat the stick as though it were a CD.

Notes on use of Win32 Disk Imager.

Writing an image using any version of Windows if available.

1. Download the .img file and confirm the MD5.

2. If it is a compressed image e.g. some-name.img.xz decompress it using 7-Zip.

3. Win32diskimager-v0.7 is to be found here:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

4. Win32diskimager is in ZIP form & just needs extracting. It does not require installation. To launch it click on Win32DiskImager.exe in the extracted directory.

5. Insert the USB stick or SD Card which should contain a single empty fat32 partition & check the drive letter allocated by Windows.

6. Write Image
- Run "Win32DiskImager.exe"

Image

- Click the "Browse" icon (blue folder) and select an image file (.img)
- Select the correct device drive letter using the drop down box v
- Double check that you have the right drive letter as the device will be wiped!!!!!

- Click "Write"

Now you just have to wait for the image to be written to the card or stick. (In the case of a 16 Meg image approx 5 seconds.)
Last edited by ETP on Tue 12 May 2015, 07:47, edited 7 times in total.
Regards ETP
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tony
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#27 Post by tony »

Hi ETP,

thanks for an interesting variant.

I have no windows machine and not much room left on my linux box.

I could however put it on my backup disk to try.

Do you have a grub4dos menu that would work?

Regards Tony.

gcmartin

Failure of the xz to USB to boot, again on 2nd CPU

#28 Post by gcmartin »

Yes, I am using a 8GB USB. I used Gparted to blank the USB. Did NOT make a FAT32 partition. Instead, I tried again on a different PC running LH64.Moved the download from NAS to the local HDD.
Using the same procedure to create and I got exactly the same result. ...kernel panic

I did see your reference on use of a Windows OS to create the stick. I understand as agree that the "xz" tool may NOT be the best for this particular job.

Maybe, someone can come up with a method to create an ISO as it is more traditionally understood in practice, while the "xz to disk" is less understood and may have issues with media and other problems. I know BarryK may NOT be looking at this, but other developers may be. TaZoC uses xz in the 64bit distro's ISOs he makes. As such, decompression on boot occurs into system RAM from the ISO/DVD boot. His approach is an idea for others to review for practical use. Download either of his ISOs and review either its files contained or the initrd line(s) in the isolinux.cfg in the ISO.

Will try to download, blank, make a FAT32 partition before doing an "xz" creation, tomorrow, to repeat an attempt to boot system. I will also try the Windows procedure as recommended.

Any other ideas, please share. Thanks.
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ETP
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Blue Pup (V2 Released 13th March 2014)

#29 Post by ETP »

tony wrote:Hi ETP,

thanks for an interesting variant.

I have no windows machine and not much room left on my linux box.

I could however put it on my backup disk to try.

Do you have a grub4dos menu that would work?

Regards Tony.
Hi Tony & welcome to the “dark side.
Regards ETP
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tony
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#30 Post by tony »

Hi,

thanks for the reply.

I have a 1.0 Gb "My Passport" usb3 backup disk, it's bootable with grub4dos on the first partition so it acts like a big usb stick.

The bios on my computer lets me boot up from it by hitting ESC as it boots up.

Then I get the grub screen and access to any partition.

Regards Tony.

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Blue Pup V1 & V2 (Released 13th March 2014)

#31 Post by Billtoo »

I upgraded to V2 using the linux method.
On my 400x SDHC card which is plugged into a usb adapter, the
xz --decompress --stdout blue_pup_v2_8gb.img.xz > /dev/sdX (sdg in my
case) + sync took 10 minutes to finish, could take a lot longer on a slower
card I guess.

sh-4.1# report-video
VIDEO REPORT: Quirky Tahr, version 6.0.5
Chip description:
VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor
Graphics Controller (rev 09)
Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Probing Xorg startup log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
Driver loaded (and currently in use): intel
Loaded modules: dbe dri2 extmod glx kbd mouse
Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 1920x1080 pixels (507x285 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes

Added kdegames with PPM and Wine 1.7.14
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jabu2
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#32 Post by jabu2 »

I've read this, was intrigued, but am left with the question: why?

Chrome/google is good - have used it daily now for several years on Puppy and Win.

If the need is for an efficient entry to the work environment, then the "metro" style is yet to prove it is better than other "menu" approaches.

On this thread, one metro screen has 40 "minipanels" in what seems a quite random arrangement.
A few test runs (usability trials) indicate that this is anything but efficient.

And if you multiply the visual choices by "switching screens"
then the math, and any knowledge of ergonomics, tells you that error rates are going to mushroom.

That's the cost, can anyone explain the benefits?

The choices for getting opening and new page styles within chrome and puppy (and utilising both) are numerous - I've tried a few including the newmetrotab linked.
We also need to remember the user's harware/function-key option which should be integrated with the screen interface (often available even on some tablet/mobile systems, to some degree).

But to get the real work done, most people find the minimalist approach works best?

1. If there's a hardware key, use it, eg main menu - browser -mail -search (no more than four):
2. Have screen menu for others: (no more than 8 choices on main auto-opener)
3. make use of sub menus within the apps - e.g browser favourites suitably arranged in categories/classes.

To do this efficiently, apply the principles of classification (google it).

More than about half a doz choices (on hardware or screen) just slows the real work down (by slowing down the entry to the real workspace/app) ?

And getting real things done, whether for work or pleasure, has to be a pretty important reason for looking at a screen, doesn't it?


regards to all puppy users and developers

jabu2

Carolina1.2 Pemasu's, and Slacko 5.7 - & Win7 all with synced chrome/google tb libreoffice etc etc

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ETP
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Blue Pup V1 & V2 (Released 13th March 2014)

#33 Post by ETP »

@ Tony,

Given that your USB 1TB? disc is external and probably 5300rpm, you would be better off just installing to a USB3 stick which would give equivalent or better performance.
IMHO a dedicated backup disc is too important to experiment with and ever changing USB drive letters a potential problem. It would also obviate the need to change your
existing grub setup.

@ jabu2

Thanks for reviewing this take on Puppy. The “why
Regards ETP
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[url=http://tinyurl.com/kennels2/]Kennels[/url]

gcmartin

BLUE should allow touch device user to navigate its services

#34 Post by gcmartin »

This has no bearing on anything written by anyone in this thread. Its a view for consideration.

ETP presents something for this community that no one else has stepped forward to address in any apparent manner.

To step back for a moment, we all need to consider what has been happening for the past decade started probably in a big way by the old Palm device. This progressed into Nokia, iDevices (Apple), Blackberry, Android, and Windows. Along the way, came Chrome OS and now browsers looking to get into users hands in a very consistent way as time progresses and user experience coalesce around touching something to activate it.

ETP is helping by presenting those who for one reason or another are used to "touching" something to activate/initiate a desired function.

We can help by testing and offering ideas that would help as touch continues to provide users an acceptable way of interacting with an intelligent system to make some needed information present or some activity present for use.

None of us are going to be able to stop the, now, 3.5 billion touch oriented devices in use in the world each day, not to mention the many of us who have been users of cell touch devices in an ever increasing way. The industry has gotten this movement to make easy for both vendors, product builders, and users to function. Some of my friends who said they would NEVER buy/use those new technology phones/tablets few years ago, now have them as they joyously demonstrate how they use it for something they find practical. Soon there will be over 7billion smartDevices before the end of 2015 which we touch, on the way to over 20billion before the end of the decade.

Thus, if BLUE lives up to what is offered, it would service, equally, users who prefer non-touch and also those who use touch...again, equally at home for each type of user's PC.

Let's not try to derail Puppy expansion or any developer trying to improve our ability with what they provide.

This distro is a rather forward step, yet, may not be viewed as such by everyone.

We already know how to type and click stuff. The display with buttons to click or touch is now mainstream. We can embrace it or we can ignore, but, it is, now, mainstream. With a remote potential for gesture gaining traction in user experience to make a system's function active.

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Blue Pup V1 & V2 (Released 13th March 2014)

#35 Post by ETP »

Hi gcmartin,

I feel that you have raised some very valid issues.
I commented in the original post that this Pup would polarise opinion and it has. We cannot ignore these modern trends. What seems to be Version 1 of Blue Pup has received the following review:
http://www.centralkynews.com/amnews/new ... 7bea3.html
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Regards ETP
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[url=http://tinyurl.com/kennels2/]Kennels[/url]

tony
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#36 Post by tony »

Hi ETP,

I took your advice and tried extracting to an 8Gb usb stick but no luck getting a bootable system.

I tried doing it in one pass and then when that did not work, extracting the image file and putting it on the stick with dd. No luck either.

Maybe you could post the image as a tar file. It would be a bit bigger but more likely to work with puppy tools.

Regards Tony.

gcmartin

#37 Post by gcmartin »

Update on using Linux approach to create 8GB boot problems I've had.
  1. I found another 8GB stick and tried it also, but no luck in booting. Continue kernel panics on each stick from 2 different manufacturers.
  2. Use a 32GB stick which I had available ... SUCCESS with BLUE boot!
  3. Downloaded and tried BarryK's Tahr on 8GB USBs...Success with both sticks
Any information you seek to provide assistance, just ask.

Hope this helps

gcmartin

Anyone help request for source to PUP use of Win32DiskImage

#38 Post by gcmartin »

This is relating to this post by ETP earlier

Curious if anyone can make a PET so that Win32DiskImager program will work from any 32bit PUP. Ubuntu offers this, here.

Thanks in advance

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Problems creating 8GB sticks – boot failure/kernel panic

#39 Post by ETP »

The puzzle here was that both in this thread and the QT thread, some people have had persistent success and others failure.
The clues I now believe, lay in gcmartin’s success with a 32GB stick and Gparted screen-shot of an apparently successful 8GB build that failed to boot giving a kernel panic. When I first looked at that shot I observed, but foolishly ignored, that the size of the last unallocated partition was slightly less than that on my 8GB stick.
It is therefore not an exact copy. The “disc
Regards ETP
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Volhout
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8 Gbyte image

#40 Post by Volhout »

Dear ETP,

I have taken a virgin USB stick size 8Gbytes, and have done a clean format FAT32 (default sector size).
The 8 Gbyte image does not fit on it. I am few hundred sectors short.

I am not sure how this is done legally ... When I buy a 8Gbyte USB stick, what is the minimum amount of storage I am entitled to (7.51 Gbyte ? 7.99 Gbyte ? 7.9999999 Gbyte ? 8.01 ?)

High density USB drives (flash memory devices) do have limitted life time. That is why "wear leveling" is used in the OS. This is why the image for this version of puppy enfolds to 8Gbyte, and not few hundred megabyte. The OS will re-allocate write area's dynamically and avoid bad blocks.
But what if the virgin stick from the manufacturer already had bad blocks.
Then, the stick will show smaller size. To the OS it will still look as one single block (logical blocks may be translated under water different to physical blocks) but the total size will be lower.

To prevent these mismatches, would it be wise to package the image in the future as size 7 Gbyte, for an 8 Gbyte stick ? Just to avoide issues like this ? That may even allow for a second partition, with a standard puppy in the last few 100 Mbyte.

Of coarse, the next size bigger stick will also work (16Gbyte)... technically.

P.S. if I use a USB2 stick, do I get any reasonable performance out of this ? Or is it dead slow compared to the "decompress and run all in RAM" method that standard puppies use ? In other words, can you do a Blue PrePup (Precise Puppy) or Blue RarPup (Raring) since these still use the original frugal installs?

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