Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[saintless]

Hi, Terry.

Toni; Did you find a way to remove JWM`s desktop buttons.?
As said, JWM is supposed to do multi desktop wallpapers all by itself, but it didn`t work for me.

Yes,
William posted a tip which fixed this. In a few hours I will ulpad the new testing module. If you ask me it is fine to have the same method of changing wallpapers in IceWM and Jwm which is the case in the new module. No need to rewrite anything .

Toni

[saintless]

Thank you, Tony.
I will wait a bit about the firewall a week or more.
Soon I will upload new testing module and you will see there menu entries in System->Keyboards-layout and Timezone

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, all.

New testing module 01-v5.squashfs uploaded:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Light-Whe ... 5.squashfs

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md5sum 5ae5e170ae099afd12a1b241e3f5e7e5

Changes in System and Utilities menus.
Jwm added. Switch to JWM or IceWM is done by menu entries Window Managers.
$HOME/.xsesion and $HOME/startup are links to WM configuration files changed to point to JWM or IceWM configuration.
When you use Window Managers switch the system exits x and you have to type startx. Can't find how to auto-login x yet.
Added Welcome message from Fred.
Added System -> Timezone and Keyboard-layout scripts.
Added Utilities -> MAN Help Page
Added Mtpaint help file menu entry.
CpuFreqUtils suggestion from William.
Wallpapers.GUI works the same way in JWM and ICEWM.
Changed content of $HOME/startup.
WWW Browser is pointed to default-web_browser.
Many other small changes.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Hi, all.

New testing module 01-v5.squashfs uploaded:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Light-Whe ... 5.squashfs

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md5sum 5ae5e170ae099afd12a1b241e3f5e7e5

Just downloaded it, but on the way out for some hours. Will try it later today here in NZ.

[sunburnt]

Toni; Glad to hear about the JWM desktop fix, and the new Sq file.!


I`m sure it`s possible to get Debian`s menu system to do what we want. And compatibility is always a good thing.
However I`m also sure ya`ll are as tired of reading docs as I am. So here`s what I`ve got so far...

FreeDesktop Registered Desktop files have many Categories. Puppy breaks most standards, and this one of them.

I see that we need to resolve Categories in desktop files down to one Category to match a root menu item.
Then there is no doubt which sub menu the app goes into.

I made a menu-root.lst file that sets the root-menu`s categories.
And a categories.lst file that matches and translates categories found in desktop files to a root-menu category.

Reading all the desktop files takes about 15 seconds on my P4-D. Too long... So we can do 1 of 2 things.
1) Have a "mk-menu" script that must be run at boot and after any menu changes ( Like Puppy does it ).
2) Copy the desktop files into /tmp at boot, and backup any changes at shutdown ( This makes for a slower menu ).

This rough menu system makes a menu fairly close to the one Puppy makes.
The tail end of the JWM menu ( Groups and other stuff ) may need editing.
I only know a little bit about JWMs settings at the end of the output menu file.

[tigs]

Did you try "changes=EXIT:/<path/to>/changes.dat" ?(changes.dat needs to be created first of course)
AFAIK the save file changes.dat is in fact the same as e.g. pupsave.4fs (behaves like a sfs module also)
But I don't know if it can be mounted read-only when write-protection is on.

Fred

Hi fred, I did use " changes=EXIT:/portdeb/debian/changes.dat". It can not not mount as "read-only" once write protection is on. here is the output (more or less) message during the boot:

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checking /mnt/sdb1/portdeb/debian/changes.dat
--------------------------------------------
fsck: read-only file system while trying to open /mnt/portedeb/debian/changes.dat
dist write-protected; use -n option to do a read-only check of the device
----------------------------------------------------
changes not writable, using memory instead

How to use the "-n option"

thanks

[mcewanw]

1. dtc-xen-firewall
2. apf-firewall
3. ipkungfu

I tried the first three and decided on ipkungfu.

It was easy to set up and produced a complex set of ip tables. I don't know enough to comment on the tables.

Drawback is no icon to check if it is running and needs to be set up to run at boot. If you are on a local network you will have to edit the tables to suit.

Regards Tony

I'm sure its a fine program, and certainly tiny, but is no longer supported and doesn't handle ipv6, which is bound to be needed some day.

[tony]

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to use this :-

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Regards Tony

[mcewanw]

As said, JWM is supposed to do multi desktop wallpapers all by itself, but it didn`t work for me.

I had multidesktop wallpapers done by JWM itself working okay, but the problem is it overwrites the rox pinboard background (you lose the pinboard). Without that rox problem the following in .jwmrc provides per desktop wallpapers (change image files to what you have). I tried it in Puppy: However, the way Tony is doing it (just like in icewm) doesn't suffer that rox conflict problem.

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<!-- Number of virtual desktops -->
<Desktops  width="4" height="1">
<Desktop Name="One">
<Background type="image">/usr/share/backgrounds/upup.jpg</Background>
</Desktop>
<Desktop Name="Two">
<Background type="image">/usr/share/backgrounds/lightblue.jpg</Background>
</Desktop>
<Desktop Name="Three">
<Background type="image">/usr/share/backgrounds/sunset_jesse.jpg</Background>
</Desktop>
<Desktop Name="Four">
<Background type="image">/usr/share/backgrounds/default.jpg</Background>
</Desktop>
</Desktops>

[mcewanw]

EDIT: Ignore the below, I had another copy of live/01-v4.squashfs in another partition and that was getting loaded... The new 01-v5.squashfs is loading fine now.

Maybe I didn't get enough sleep last night but 01-v5.squashfs doesn't seem to be working for me (my download has the correct md5sum). When I boot with that in my 'live' folder, it seems to still load 01-v4.squashfs (which I have already deleted from my system...). DebianDog does boot as things stand, however, but when I open a terminal and enter 'man' or 'pman', it reports no such command and the menu is the old Debian one. It is probably something crazy I've done, but I can't find what? (I have deleted my live-rw, so that isn't the problem either...

[mcewanw]

re: the latest DebianDog squashfs.

Pressing desktop buttons does not change wallpaper on first boot. I think they should. Solution is to change line in $HOME/.desktop.conf from:

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Run=off

to

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Run=on

Furthermore, on my system at least, $HOME/.wallpapers/wallpapers.lst

uses 'Scale' which doesn't stretch out the background to fill my screen. I need to modify that replacing all occurrences of 'Scale' with 'Stretch'.

Toni, I also note that 'man' -> 'pman' is indeed working with browser H3V. However, from the code, it looks like if I install iceweasel as my default browser, man would still open H3V, which would be inconvenient. I haven't checked this in practice yet so could be wrong. pman should also have the defaultwebbrowser term changed to align with what term is used for that in DebianDog.

In regards to the above I'm still also wondering how the system will know that iceweasel becomes default_web-browser without manually arranging that. Or am I missing something about that.

I presume the method to achieve persistence remains for the moment as using one of using a live-rw file? Are you intending to offer options like Porteus-Wheezy has for using a simple changes directory as an alternative at some stage Toni?

Everything is certainly coming together nicely. Still to try JWM which I think is an exciting addition which should lower resource usage a little too.

[mcewanw]

Have now tried JWM in the latest DebianDog. Yes, the wallpaper switcher is working fine. Well done Toni!

Having said that... as you know we lose the Pager functionality in order to get the different desktop backgrounds without the Pager buttons. The Pager is however one of the advantages of JWM compared to iceWM, so the question is which is better - having a pager button that shows a representation in the button of what programs you have running on each desktop (albeit with each having a common background), or having no pager button but different background for each desktop?

As things stand, you could have windows open in various desktops but not realise that, whereas, with the pager buttons working you can see at a glance which desktops have windows open. I do miss that functionality. If only JWM's own ability to use different desktop backgrounds didn't overwrite rox pinboard (which it does according to my tests) because then you could have the best of both worlds (pager and different desktop backgrounds).

One small extra thing, is that personally I do rather miss being able to click the time indicator in order to bring up a calendar (as in Puppy and Winblows) - I never use osmo per se (preferring other apps for PIM) apart from for quick calendar in Puppy. I'm temporarily in Porteus-Wheezy right now and can't remember if hovering mouse over DebianDog time at least brings up an indication of the day and date.

EDIT: I'm back in DebianDog and note that hovering over Time display in taskbar does indeed provide day and date, which is great. That's was the main thing - I certainly wouldn't want the likes of osmo in the default release (which is a big package when downloaded my apt-get and, as I suggest, not necessarily a package most people would use anyway).

Otherwise JWM seems to be working fine (aside from, as you say Toni, the current need to ctrl-alt-f1 and enter startx to bring jwm up).

[saintless]

Hi, all.

Terry, thank you for the menu script. I will test it and write back.

William,

Pressing desktop buttons does not change wallpaper on first boot. I think they should. Solution is to change line in $HOME/.desktop.conf from:

Code: Select all

Run=off

to

Code: Select all

Run=on

[/url]

I prefer to keep it off. First it uses less ram and second I suspect auo-start wallpapers at boot created the issue I had with previous wallpapers.gui. At least I think it was related with replacing the wallpapers.gui while desktop.ctrl was active. I might be wrong but I prefer to play safe. I think is better the user to start wallpapers if needed.

Furthermore, on my system at least, $HOME/.wallpapers/wallpapers.lst

uses 'Scale' which doesn't stretch out the background to fill my screen. I need to modify that replacing all occurrences of 'Scale' with 'Stretch'.

I will change it to stretch. I guess it is fine with scale only on my computer.

I haven't checked this in practice yet so could be wrong. pman should also have the defaultwebbrowser term changed to align with what term is used for that in DebianDog.

I think adding links to default apps with puppy like names as you suggested will fix this. I will test it in the next days.

In regards to the above I'm still also wondering how the system will know that iceweasel becomes default_web-browser without manually arranging that. Or am I missing something about that.

I don't think every new installed web browser should auto-become default browser. Not sure for Iceweasel, but Firefox has Preferences option to check if it is default browser and change it every time Firefox run.
Do you have other suggestion instead manual default browser setup?

Are you intending to offer options like Porteus-Wheezy has for using a simple changes directory as an alternative at some stage Toni?

You can do it now by booting with this initrd:
http://www.smokey01.com/saintless/Light ... 0-4-486.xz
It becomes Porteus-DebianDog this way.
Similar if you boot with this initrd made from Fred for DebianDog:
http://www.smokey01.com/saintless/Light ... ux-live.xz
Try similar to this code for the last one:

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title lldeb (sda3/lldeb)
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /lldeb/vmlinuz from=/lldeb
  initrd /lldeb/initrd.xz

The plan is to include both initrd (porteus and the default initrd1.img) for the beta version like in this testing iso:
http://www.smokey01.com/saintless/Light ... g-test.iso
Just not sure about separating the kernel module from the main module yet.

Toni

[saintless]

Having said that... as you know we lose the Pager functionality in order to get the different desktop backgrounds without the Pager buttons. The Pager is however one of the advantages of JWM compared to iceWM, so the question is which is better - having a pager button that shows a representation in the button of what programs you have running on each desktop (albeit with each having a common background), or having no pager button but different background for each desktop?

I really prefer to have same wallpapers start-stop option for both WM. It will become very confusing for the user if we use different method for every window manager.
You can always put pager line back and remove the desktop.ctrl lines from system.jwmrc or $HOME/.jwmrc when we make it separate for user account.

Toni

[mcewanw]

It will become very confusing for the user if we use different method for every window manager.

No problem and I see your point of view. However, I'll probably make them different on my system because for me any different wm (icewm, jwm, openbox etc) is by design different, with some advantages and some disadvantages.

The lowest resource wm DebianDog is currently providing is likely to be jwm (Lxtask suggests for me a couple of MB RAM saving) with common desktop background (which means I can modify the configs, like you suggest, to use Pager without any disadvantage on my system). I am really happy you have included JWM, Toni, and without it adding very much at all to the distribution size, especially since, as Terry mentioned, Joe Wingbermuehle, its creator is active on murga puppy forum and continually updates JWM according to feedback.

Still on the subject of JWM, I think, once tested, it will need a $HOME/.jwmrc or similar and the config thus in /etc/skel for multiuser use.

[saintless]

as Terry mentioned, Joe Wingbermuehle, its creator is active on murga puppy forum and continually updates JWM according to feedback.

This is really big advantage for us. I hope we will manage to configure JWM but if we have a problem we can always ask him for help.

Toni

Edit:

Still on the subject of JWM, I think, once tested, it will need a $HOME/.jwmrc or similar and the config thus in /etc/skel for multiuser use.

Yes, this will be done once we have JWM as we like.

[saintless]

I made a menu-root.lst file that sets the root-menu`s categories.
And a categories.lst file that matches and translates categories found in desktop files to a root-menu category.

Hi, Terry.
I see mk-menus gives menu output in terminal but I can't make it to change the real start menu. I use all files in /opt/bin or from separate menu folder. What should I do to make the changes to appear in start menu?

Toni

[saintless]

Solution is to change line in $HOME/.desktop.conf from:

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Run=off

Hi, William.
Just noticed you edit the .desktop.conf file with text editor if I understand right.
Use the desktop icon or Start menu for Wallpapers to start the GUI from Terry. Start/Stop will rewrite .desktop.conf file. Check/uncheck Run on boot will create/delete symlink in $HOME/Startup and you also can scale/strech the image.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Solution is to change line in $HOME/.desktop.conf from:

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Run=off

Hi, William.
Just noticed you edit the .desktop.conf file with text editor if I understand right.
Use the desktop icon or Start menu for Wallpapers to start the GUI from Terry. Start/Stop will rewrite .desktop.conf file. Check/uncheck Run on boot will create/delete symlink in $HOME/Startup and you also can scale/strech the image.

Oh, I see. Thanks Toni.

[saintless]

The Pager is however one of the advantages of JWM compared to iceWM, so the question is which is better - having a pager button that shows a representation in the button ...

Hi, William.
Just for information experimenting with preferences file for IceWM shows there is no advantage for JWM regarding presentations in pager buttons.
Edit $HOME/.icewm/preferences this way:

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#  Show workspace switching buttons on task bar
TaskBarShowWorkspaces=1 # 0/1

.....................

#  Show a mini desktop preview on each workspace button
PagerShowPreview=1 # 0/1

Toni