Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Wed 17 Sep 2014, 07:56
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
BareBones Puppies & BABYies
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 5 of 6 [76 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
Author Message
jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu 13 Feb 2014, 21:02    Post subject:  

kpfuser wrote:
Hi jrb,

Thank you for your quick reply, your warm welcome, and your encouraging words. Nevertheless, despite the above, I am sorry to say that your post added a new big disappointment with Puppy to a string of older ones.

To clarify matters, I was led to believe that I could update software (Firefox mostly) by using the Ubuntu repositories and thus keep my installation current so as to avoid the multiple problems I am experiencing now because of a hopelessly outdated version of Firefox. However, your post put paid to such foolish dreams.

Anyway, since life with Puppy seems to be an endless string of compromises and work-arounds, let's see if anything can be salvaged from today's shipwreck with your kind help. For starters, is it possible to install a recent version of Firefox in a manner analogous to the one you describe for Opera? In fact, any manner whatsoever will do as long as I end up with the most recent version of Firefox and no unresolved dependencies. If I can get as far as this, perhaps my resolve will be rekindled allowing me to better cope with the travails that will undoubtedly follow. So what is the verdict?

OK, if that's what you have to have here is how to do it.

Go to https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/27.0.1/linux-i686/. Download whatever version of Firefox 27 you prefer. Put it in a place that is easy to access.

Start Barebones Precise. Find firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 and click on it. When you extract it you will have a folder called firefox. Go into the folder and click on the firefox executable and you will be online with the latest stable firefox. I've just done all this and it is running fine.

To set up the browse icon first right click on the firefox executable referred to above, choose Rename.(don't rename it!) Instead highlight everything in the rename box. In my case /mnt/home/firefox/firefox. Once highlighted right click on it and choose Copy.

Now go to /usr/local/bin and right click on defaultbrowser. Choose Open as Text. Get rid of mozstart and paste in what you have copied from Rename. Now the browse button will open firefox.

One Caution: if the firefox folder is on the partition that you are going to save your pupsave to then you should create your pupsave first before changing defaultbrowser! The path to the executable will change after creating a pupsave.

I won't describe how to put firefox on the menu, that is much more complicated and I don't have time right now.

Its been a while since I used Firefox or Seamonkey this way but as I recall they will automatically nag you to update. If not go to Help - About Firefox and it will automatically check to see if you have the latest version and offer to update for you.

That should do it. Good Luck. J
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 781
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Fri 14 Feb 2014, 18:16    Post subject: The pup closest to Ubuntu precise and alternatives  

Hi kpfuser,

As jrb pointed out, barebones puppies are least likely to have built-in the dependencies which Ubuntu applications require to function. I'd add that the absence of dependencies is true for all puppies: its just more obvious in "barebones" versions which, by design, have left out files standard puppies contain.
A "Ubuntu compatible" puppy is not a stripped down "Ubuntu". It is a Puppy built from ubuntu binaries which --if you install all the necessary dependencies-- should be able to run a Ubuntu application which would run under the version of Ubuntu from which the binaries were obtained. The creators of Ubuntu applications, however, assume that the Ubuntu they are building for will have built-in the standard files of that version of Ubuntu. Often, this means the gnome desktop, and all the files required for that desktop to function. Or the KDE, Xfce or Lxde desktop.
The least resource consuming Ubuntu, requires (I think) about 4 Gb or hard-drive to install. A standard Puppy comes as a compressed file of about 150 Mb, give or take 50 Mb, which expands into Random Access Memory requiring (give or take) about three times its size. To go from Ubuntu to Puppy, something has to give, and those somethings are primarily the "eye-candy" desktops and the infra-structure to support them, together with Ubuntu's package control system.
Although with a Ubuntu-compatible Pup it is frequently possible to run Ubuntu applications which have few dependencies, sometimes --especially the more complex applications-- that may require you to download and install almost all the .debs which constitute the infra-structure of a Ubuntu.
Don't allow these facts to color your opinion of Puppy. The Ubuntu "brag" of 10,000 plus packages is misleading. Most of those packages are "nuts and bolts", not applications. Currently, about the only activities I can not undertake in Puppy is doing my taxes and running Dragon Naturally Speaking under wine. And I can't do the former under Ubuntu either. Check out the Additional Software section of the forum and you'll find something to fulfill almost any function. Or do a "well-minded search" http://www.wellminded.com/puppy/pupsearch.html plugging in the name or category of application and the Puppy version you're interested in.
With the Slacko, Raring, Precise, and especially Carolina Pups able to do almost anything, I'm not sure why you wanted a "barebones" puppy: "lack of RAM?". RAM is cheap, there are video tutorials demonstrating how to install it so that even a klutz like myself could do it. Annoyed by having items on your menu you'll never use? Browse to /usr/share/applications and delete the desktop files. Or better still, open the desktop files in your text editor (right-click the file and select open-as-text) and change the category argument to some meaningless word. Either way, the menu entry is gone. The apps themselves take up almost no hard drive space, and unused no RAM.
Take a good look at Carolina. Unlike most Pups, it's built with an "adrive" which contains most of its applications. But you can run it without the adrive, (just delete it or move it) in which case it will only have the geany text editor and, of course, a package manager and the applications needed to get online; in essense a "barebones" pup. From such barebones Pup you can (1) install any application you want from perhaps the most extensive repo of any Puppy; (2) download SFSes or build them with PaDS (search for it) from pets you've downloaded; and/or (3) build an adrive of just the applications you'll always use. The only downside of Carolina is that it doesn't support the infra-structure (glibs) which will enable Post Version 12 of Chrome (and its cousins) to run.
But if you really want a Precise Puppy which is very compatible with Ubuntu, even to having a fully functioning synaptic built in, try jejy69's lxpup-aptget-test. http://sourceforge.net/projects/checkmatelxde/files/Lxpup_Test_Aptget/

Obtaining a separate firefox menu entry. See, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=66237. But jrb's instructions are much easier --thanks jrb, I learned something from you again-- unless you need a separate firefox menu entry. The easiest way if you can put up with desktop clutter and having it often buried under open windows is to just drag the executable from /mnt/home/firefox to the desktop. You can make it prettier by right-clicking the desktop icon, selecting "icon" and dragging an appropriate icon into the dialog box.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
kpfuser

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Mt Pelion, Greece

PostPosted: Sun 16 Feb 2014, 19:06    Post subject:  

mikeslr & jrb

Thanks for mikeslr's very informative and educational post. I will certainly follow the suggestions made. However, I would like to clarify the following point first: Does the fact that my laptop is a 64-bit machine affect the options available? If yes, how?

I am utterly embarrassed to admit that for about three years (since I bought it) I was not aware of this fact, but somehow it happened.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun 23 Feb 2014, 14:55    Post subject:  

kpfuser wrote:
mikeslr & jrb

Thanks for mikeslr's very informative and educational post. I will certainly follow the suggestions made. However, I would like to clarify the following point first: Does the fact that my laptop is a 64-bit machine affect the options available? If yes, how?

I am utterly embarrassed to admit that for about three years (since I bought it) I was not aware of this fact, but somehow it happened.

The majority of machines built in the last 5 years are 64-bit, 32-bit OS's run fine on them. Doesn't work the other way though. A 64-bit OS won't run on a 32-bit machine. 64 is supposed to be a little faster, I've never noticed any difference. My favourite office suite, Softmaker, is only available in 32-bit so I stick with that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4231
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 24 Feb 2014, 13:27    Post subject:  

HI, jrb.

You wrote:
> 64[-bit] is supposed to be a little faster, [but] I've never noticed any difference.

I believe that that statement should be the subject of a thread in the off-topic section! Smile

BFN

musher0

_________________
"Logical entities must not be multiplied needlessly." / "Il ne faut pas multiplier les êtres logiques inutilement." (Ockham)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
kpfuser

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Mt Pelion, Greece

PostPosted: Mon 24 Feb 2014, 17:59    Post subject:  

Well, since 64-bit machines can run 32-bit os's and since I am not sure whether a 64-bit version of barebones puppy is available, I think I'd better stay in 32-bit land for now whatever the speed issues may be. So acting on this, I downloaded firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 as directed, copied it to a usb stick, and took it to the laptop running the barebones cd intending to copy it to the Desktop. Alas the latter continues to play punks with me. I stare at it on my laptop's screen but I cannot find it in the file tree under /root. What's going on? Is this a joke of some sort?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 781
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Tue 25 Feb 2014, 01:00    Post subject: Try the following steps to get firefox  

kpfuser wrote:
Well, since 64-bit machines can run 32-bit os's and since I am not sure whether a 64-bit version of barebones puppy is available, I think I'd better stay in 32-bit land for now whatever the speed issues may be. So acting on this, I downloaded as directed, copied it to a usb stick, and took it to the laptop running the barebones cd intending to copy it to the Desktop. Alas the latter continues to play punks with me. I stare at it on my laptop's screen but I cannot find it in the file tree under /root. What's going on? Is this a joke of some sort?
.
If I follow the above correctly, you now have a Puppy running from a CD and the firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 file on your USB. First, you can't run firefox until you unpack it. Second, you can't see it in /root because it isn't there. I don't recall if you decided on which Puppy you are running. If you're still running Barebones-NOP then follow the instructions below relating to thunar.
The following assumes you are running a frugal install and have created a SaveFile. If your file manager is rox, you'll see drive icons above the taskbar and --as you haven't mounted the USB-stick yet-- you can safely plug and unplug it to determine its name. After you plug it back in, click it to mount it. You can't see anything on any drive or partition until you mount it, except for your Home partition which is automatically mounted. [There's also an application on the file-system submenu named pmount for mounting partitions].
If your file manager is thunar, open it, first without and then with the USB stick plugged in, noting the folders which appear in thunar's left panel each time. After plugging the USB-stick in, click the folder which represents it.
Following either of the above instructions, you should now see the firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 file on your USB-stick. Left-click it. [I'm not currently running NOP. If Lef-clicking doesn't open your archiver, try right-clicking the file]. Your archiver app will offer to unpack it. Select "All", click Extract (you may have to click the down arrow at the far right of the tool bar to see it) and accept its defaults. It will create a folder named "firefox." Open a second file-manager window to /mnt/home. Rox always shows it as a mounted desktop drive icon. Thunar refers to it as home in its left panel. Drag the firefox folder from the USB stick to your Home partition and select Move under rox. Thunar won't ask and will just copy it to /mnt/home. You can delete the old folder once it's been copied.
Then install the attached pet by downloading and clicking it. It will create a menu entry and enable you to assign firefox to a launcher on one of Xfce's panels if your running Barebones-NOP.
If you have not and do not intend to create a SaveFile, let us know. Obviously, you won't be able to follow the above instructions as you won't have a Home partition. And don't install the pet. Similarly, let us know if you running your Puppy as a Full install.

mikeslr
Firefox_External-0.91.pet
Description  Creates menu entries for firefox run from folder on /mnt/home.
pet

 Download 
Filename  Firefox_External-0.91.pet 
Filesize  88.39 KB 
Downloaded  129 Time(s) 
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
kpfuser

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Mt Pelion, Greece

PostPosted: Tue 25 Feb 2014, 05:24    Post subject:  

mikeslr,

Thank you for your post.

To put things in perspective, I do not intend to install barebones to hd. I want to add to the basic cd the software that I need and then remaster and run it as a live cd. Of course, the software addition followed by remastering will be done in stages to simplify the overall task and reduce the risk of loosing too much work in case something goes wrong at some point. This is what I have done with all versions of puppy I have used over the years. There will be no full or frugal installation and no savefile either.

To carry out the above, I was following jrb's instructions. Thus, using a different laptop, I downloaded firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 and copied it to a usb drive. Then I plugged this drive to the pc running the pristine unmodified barebones live cd. As jrb suggested, I was intending to transfer firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 to a place where I could find it easily. The first place that came to mind was the Desktop itself. So I mounted the usb drive and copied firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 intending to paste it to the Desktop. I expected to find Desktop at /root/Desktop. Unfortunately it wasn't there. To make the story shorter it wasn't anywhere else I looked in. So my sole question at the moment is, where can I find Desktop in the directory tree of barebones? OK, it may not be absolutely necessary to know this in order to proceed with jrb's instructions, but failing to find the answer to such a simple question riled me to no end. So where is Desktop hiding? The answer to this question should be enough for now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 781
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Tue 25 Feb 2014, 12:23    Post subject: Including firefox in a remaster withoug using a SaveFile
Subject description: Location of desktop folder
 

Hi again,

Skip to Short Version at Bottom:

See screenshot of Desktop folder within the root folder. Thunar window on the left; rox on the right.

I've never tried to, but I guess it's possible to remaster without first creating a SaveFile. I would think that doing it that way would greatly increase your workload. And most importantly, you'd have to install firefox rather than just run it as an external program. Never having installed the versions I've downloaded as compressed files from Mozilla, I looked for instructions which I found @ http://www.libre-software.net/how-to-install-firefox-on-ubuntu-linux-mint. Translating them the Puppy environment, and as you have no prior firefox installed, they read as:
1. After decompressing the firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 file in your Desktop directory, move the resulting firefox folder --which is named firefox--to /opt.
2. Open a terminal and type, Code:
ln -s /opt/firefox/firefox /usr/bin/firefox

I'm sure you're aware of this, but for others who find this thread attempting to accomplish your objective of remastering without having first created a SaveFile, you'll have to remaster before shutting down since the firefox installation would only now exist in RAM and evaporate as soon as you shut down. Even if you had created a SaveFile, during the remaster process when offered the opportunity to modify root, you would have to do so --deleting the root directory created automatically in the build directory and copying root from your actual system*-- as the root automatically created is taken from the puppy_xxx.sfs of the ISO and does not contain your modifications.
* I supposed it is possible just to copy your modifications to /opt and the /usr/bin/firefox symlink into their corresponding locations under root in your build folder. But I've never done that.
Although I can appreciate that some fans prefer running a remastered Puppy without a SaveFile for security reasons --thereby avoiding any possibility of having a corrupted system-- might I suggest that not working with a SaveFile during the remaster process seems a little extreme. As the only possible means by which something could get into your build not already existing somewhere on your system is via the internet, it should be sufficient to unplug your lan cable and/or disconnect from a wireless connection. Working with a SaveFile means that in the event of an error you don't have to start from scratch.

mikesLr

P.S. Looking at the files and folders in the extracted firefox folder, I don't think the above instructions are sufficient to create a menu entry. You can test by restarting X. If a menu entry doesn't appear --while there are other methods-- perhaps the easiest is:

a. Install the pet I provided in the previous post.
b. browse to /root/my-applications/bin, right-click the firefox script file --not the png file-- and select open as text.
c. edit the line which currently reads 'exec /mnt/home/firefox/firefox "$@"' to read

exec /usr/bin/firefox "$@"

or

exec /opt/firefox/firefox "$@"

d. Save.
e. restart x.

If you use the second "c" option, you can delete the /usr/bin/firefox symlink.

P.P.S. I've never looked for the Desktop folder before creating a SaveFile. Maybe there isn't one. If not, leave the firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 file on your USB stick and decompress it there. Then move the created firefox folder from the USB-stick to /opt.

Short Version:

1. Decompress firefox-27.0.1.tar.bz2 where ever it currently is.
2. Move the firefox folder (created by step one) to /opt.
3. Install pet provided in prior post.
4. browse to /root/my-applications/bin, right-click the firefox script file --not the png file-- and select open as text.
5. edit the line which currently reads 'exec /mnt/home/firefox/firefox "$@"' to read

exec /opt/firefox/firefox "$@"

6. Click Save.
7. Restart X.
Desktop.png
Description  Location of Desktop Folder -- screen shot from Carolina with rox installed. Thunar Window on left, rox on right.
png

 Download 
Filename  Desktop.png 
Filesize  77.32 KB 
Downloaded  166 Time(s) 
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
kpfuser

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Mt Pelion, Greece

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 09:34    Post subject:  

mikeslr,

Thank you for your last post. Please let us concentrate on a single issue this time, i.e., that of the missing Desktop in my barebones installation (Precise Puppy 5.4.3 barebones 0.2). Your attached screenshot shows what I would expect to see in my installation too. However, the screenshot I attach shows that this is not the case. Any idea why it should be so?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
kpfuser

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 150
Location: Mt Pelion, Greece

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 09:53    Post subject:  

Ooops! My screenshot seems to have gone to meet my Desktop. Let me try once again in case its size was the problem.
Where-is-Desktop.png
 Description   A genuine disappearance act or am I missing something?
 Filesize   45.91 KB
 Viewed   668 Time(s)

Where-is-Desktop.png

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 781
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Wed 26 Feb 2014, 15:36    Post subject: The Mystery of the Missing Desktop Folder  

Hi kpfuser,

I don't have a definitive answer for you regarding where your Desktop folder disappeared to, only some observations and suggestions.
I don't have Barebones-anything currently on my computer. But I booted into three Puppies, after editing their listings in the Grub4dos Menu.lst so that their kernel lines read :

kernel /puppy_XXX*/vmlinuz psubdir=puppy_XXX* pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck,ram**

* Not the actual text, employed as a placeholder for raring, precise and carolina
** causes boot into Safe-Mode, that is without loading a SaveFile.

Both raring and precise are pemasu's upup derivatives. Both revealed that their default structure did NOT include a Desktop folder under /root. Carolina, on the other hand, does have a Desktop folder under /root built into its default structure. Like Barebones-NOPs, Carolina uses the Xfce-Thunar combination. So, some Puppies are built with, and some without, a Desktop Folder under root.
When I boot into upup raring or upup precise, allowing either to load their SaveFiles, both do have a Desktop Folder under /root. Examination of their contents revealed only files relating to applications I installed under Wine. Apparently installation of some applications will automatically create a Desktop Folder under /root.
This capacity of a SaveFile to modify Puppy's structure suggests two possibilities: Somewhere on your system –hard-drive(s), USB-stick(s)-- is/was a SaveFile. (1) At the time you moved the compressed firefox file to Desktop, your Puppy had booted loading --without your being aware of it-- a SaveFile with a Desktop Folder at /root. Now that SaveFile isn't loading, so the Desktop Folder doesn't exist. Alternatively, (2) now a SaveFile without a Desktop Folder at /root is loading without your knowledge.

Perhaps someone with greater knowledge of how Puppies work can think of other possibilities. Perhaps not. But as your intention is to remaster the Puppy so that it will only contain those files and applications you want, solving the mystery isn't as important as making certain that the remastered Puppy doesn't contain, buried somewhere, a useless Desktop Folder and compressed firefox file.

If your intention is to build your Pup without using a SaveFile, I would add pfix=ram to the kernel line of your boot argument. It doesn't matter if your using Grub or Grub4dos; only that the last part of that line ends with pfix=fsck,ram or pfix=ram. [fsck performs a file-structure check; ram instructs to boot without a SaveFile. If you include both, there's no space, only a comma, between them]. Booting pfix=ram will assure that a SaveFile isn't inadvertently loaded. It will also enable you establish whether the native structure of your Pup has, or doesn't have, a Desktop Folder at /root.

If you decide to utilize a SaveFile during your remastering process, than I would suggest you initially boot pfix=ram. When you shut down you'll be asked if you want to create a SaveFile. Create one giving it a unique name. The next time you boot into Puppy, if there is another SaveFile on your system, the boot process will be interrupted and you'll be asked which SaveFile you want to load. The location of the unwanted Savefile will be identified, and after completing the boot with the SaveFile you want, you can delete the unwanted SaveFile.

Hope this helps,

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
e_mattis


Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 114
Location: Williamston, SC

PostPosted: Sun 27 Apr 2014, 13:06    Post subject: Any New Barebones?
Subject description: looking for somethiing a little more up-to-date in the precise/wary llines
 

hey guys,
been a while since i've been here and was just wondering if there have been any barebone variants since the precise 5.3. Been using it and liking it but want something a little more updated now - precise 5.7 or wary 5.5 maybe?
Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4231
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 01 May 2014, 00:46    Post subject: Re: Any New Barebones?
Subject description: looking for somethiing a little more up-to-date in the precise/wary llines
 

e_mattis wrote:
hey guys,
been a while since i've been here and was just wondering if there have been any barebone variants since the precise 5.3. Been using it and liking it but want something a little more updated now - precise 5.7 or wary 5.5 maybe?
Thanks!


Hi, Eric.

Maybe start looking here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php?f=35&ppage=30&sort=lastpost&order=ASC&start=1800
and work your way backwards? There has to be something...

Just a thought.

BFN

musher0

_________________
"Logical entities must not be multiplied needlessly." / "Il ne faut pas multiplier les êtres logiques inutilement." (Ockham)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 425
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 13 May 2014, 03:23    Post subject: 4.31max an update of 4.31 barebones by JRB  

Hi guys,

Having been a fan of JRB's 4.31 barebones effort I decided to have a go at updating it and keeping it barebones as a 80meg download.

I have updated GTK2 to 2,18.3, pango 1.22.3, glibc 2.10 jasper update , pixman update updated wpa_supplicant and dhcp, Shinobar's ffmpeg, libpng12 and libpng14, libreadline update, libjpeg 7 and 8 etc as well as Rerwin's upgrade_pack_4.3.1.1-20110905.pet. Allows you to installer newer software like latest Firefox. So have fun with this - believe the pango and GtK update makes a difference and this is still barebones with no browser so enjoy building something. Appearnace is the same as the regular 4.31 and apart from the updates is JRB's excellent work so thankyou JRB and Shinobar and Rerwin.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/dazsbarebonespups/files/4.31max%20includes%20gtk%2Cpango%20and%204.311%20rerwin%20updates%20and%20glibc%202.10/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 5 of 6 [76 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1467s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0148s) ][ GZIP on ]