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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 28 Dec 2013, 17:45    Post subject:  

fredx181 you are right my text failed
to make that clear. I vaguely did understand
that you did refer to using their way without
including slax soft ware.

Very good that you corrected my confusing text.

I actually like Porteus and have installed it
several times and I have been active on their
forum. so it is maybe my second faced OS
Puppy the first to use.
Third I actually don't know.

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not an ideal solution though
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 842
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sat 28 Dec 2013, 18:43    Post subject:  

Hi nooby
No problem, no need to excuse.
Good luck with your health, I'm new here so didn't know.

About official porteus;
It's a great project but for some reason I'm not a big fan of slackware.
This could be because I'm used to debian.
Also in the package management of porteus I can't find my way.
Once tried to install Midori webbrowser, took me about an hour to make it work and create module out of it.
Debian is also included in porteus-package-manager but it doesn't look for dependencies, well.. useless then in my opinion.
But the flexibility of boot options (cheatcodes) WOW!

Fredx
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 00:33    Post subject:  

I started out with Debian also, so it and Ubu. are my familiar ground.
I tried Porteus too, and had trouble understanding much of how it worked.
Most people are normal users, but I like to tinker so I need to know...

Toni; I failed to mention that your new Wheezy boots to cli and I type startx.
I didn`t notice any instructions about this, but I`m sure you`re aware of it.
Also I see your post for using apps, we should start a list for what we want.
There`s very good stuff in the Deb. apps. So we should start looking there.

I see: /live/cow ( tmpfs ), and I see: /live/image ( sda1 ).
How is /live/cow better than live-rw for making new Squash files.?
.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2568
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 03:24    Post subject:  

Hi, guys,
I have some issues after installing ntfs-3g. Original initrd.img with ntfs-3g works fine but downgraded initrd.img boots to desktop and the system freezes. I need some time to find the problem. We need to make it work with downgraded initrd.img as default.
sunburnt wrote:

Toni; I failed to mention that your new Wheezy boots to cli and I type startx.

Yes, it will be fixed in the next version.

sunburnt wrote:
How is /live/cow better than live-rw for making new Squash files.?
.

If you boot without live-rw (save file) all new system changes and installed packages are saved in Copy on Write mode in /live/cow (which is placed inside RAM).
All you need to do is to create sfs with new installed packages:
Code:
mksquashfs /live/cow /live/image/live/02-new.squashfs


You can do this without having save file. This means you can remaster on the fly without having liv-rw save file at all. With original initrd.img this is impossible because Copy on Write is not supported.

Cheers, Toni

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Last edited by saintless on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 05:49; edited 1 time in total
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2568
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 05:12    Post subject:  

Ntfs-3g downgraded initrd.img desktop freeze problem fixed. All seems to work stable with downgraded initrd. Need some more testing before creating new iso.

We can start making list of applications to include, but it is not a problem to remove program from the base sfs also.
In my opinion lets concentrate of the puppy look and manage desktop and system settings. Adding more apps is easy.

Cheers, Toni

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 06:43    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
Ntfs-3g downgraded initrd.img desktop freeze problem fixed. All seems to work stable with downgraded initrd. Need some more testing before creating new iso.
...

Cheers, Toni


Wow good that looks promising then
that Wheezy will work on any old computer.

My HP/Compaq Ms Vista AND Dual core CPU
hopefully will be included then. It was bought aroun 2010
or earlier? I fail to remember

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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 07:12    Post subject:  

Hi All
Hi, fredx181
Quote:
fredx181 wrote:
I'm in doubt if it's appropriate to share my results here because it's not pure debian anymore
... ...
It just uses the "porteus way" of setting up the portable system, for the rest it's the exact wheezy-light from Toni with some more debian stuff added.
... ...
But the flexibility of boot options (cheatcodes) WOW!

I am convinced that we should "go away" from the live-boot Mr. Baumann.
Using live-xxxx opportunities Porteus today the most attractive alternative.

Puppyrus.org team did just that. But they use to recompile the kernel from Arch-repo.
And our task is to keep the core and kernel of Debian for easy migration (later) into new Debian kernels, right?

I have a request: Put a separate archive scripts converted from Porteus for Debian.
And if you find the time - then comments on how they work. Many developers miss this moment and it is difficult for users to understand the logic of the sctipts-chain.

Waiting for your new realization live-xxxx (porteus-->debian).

Sergey.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2568
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 10:22    Post subject:  

Hi, guys,

The new base is uploaded: Wneezy-Light-Downgrade-2kernels.iso - 115 Mb
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Light-Wheezy/Wneezy-Light-Downgrade-2kernels.iso
vmlinuz1 = old hardware (no-pae).
vmlinuz2 = new hardware + more than 4 Gb RAM support.

It has both kernels included for easier development. The size is bigger but removing one of the kernels later will reduce the iso size with 33 Mb. We can make 2 versions with pae and no-pae kernel when the base is ready and each one will be 33 Mb smaller.

Both initrd.img are downgraded - created with initramfs-tools v.2.5
This means we have back Copy on Write /live/cow and /live/image with latest Wheezy live-boot version at the same time.

Both initrd.img have ntfs-3g driver included. Nooby, I hope it will work for your boot NTFS partition. If it doesn't I have no idea what else to do.

If someone like to use the original initrd.img created with initramfs-tools v.3 I will upload them soon. The original initrd.img files will remove Copy on Write and the boot folder will be /lib/live/mount/medium Also it will use persistence boot option + persistence save file + persistence.conf file needed.

All from last IcEwm-Wheezy is included + Frisbee WiFi network manager + Rox-filer, GtkDialog + all dependencies, Mtpaint, IsoMaster, Xarchiver, ntfs-3g rebuilded in initrd.img, Lxrandr (resize screen resolution GUI), galculator (portable version much smaller than installing with apt-get).

All wheezy files will be uploaded in Light-Wheezy folder HERE:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Light-Wheezy/
Note this all previous Wheezy files will be removed in a few days. If someone needs them this is the time to download them.

Use live-rw save file and persistent option in menu.list
live-rw file can be placed on your boot partition or any other.
If you boot without save file /live/img will be remounted RW on boot from initrd.img included script.

On boot you will get warnings skipping mount squashfs. I can remove the warnings by editing mount-functions script but lets test first without removing them.

Boot codes for frugal install:

Code:
title No-Pae-Kernel- old PC
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /live/vmlinuz1 boot=live config persistent quickreboot noprompt autologin
  initrd /live/initrd1.img


title Pae-kernel New PC (more than 4 Gb RAM)
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /live/vmlinuz2 boot=live config persistent quickreboot noprompt autologin
  initrd /live/initrd2.img

If you like copy to RAM option for frugal install use toram=01-filesystem.squashfs

Sunburnt and others, I will wait for your opinion about this base.
I will start working with Squeezy version till we have what to share here.

Cheers, Toni
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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 11:23    Post subject:  

.
_________________
debian wheezy ,linux mint, slackware I use them all and they all have good points
Mint would be best for general users though

Last edited by big_bass on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 12:19; edited 3 times in total
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2568
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 11:58    Post subject:  

Hi, Joe, and thank you Smile Also for TXZ_pup - one of my favorite puppies.

I hope to take this project to the end with the help of Sunburnt, Fredx, Sergey and others. This Wheezy-Light is created on PIII 600 Mhz, 128 MB RAM, 2 Gb SWAP partition. With small apps it works well on this old PC. With better hardware it gives easy option to have the latest apps.

Cheers, Toni
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 15:10    Post subject:  

Hi Tony
Last work is fine!

If continue using live-xxxx tools, then:
mksquashfs bin dev etc media mnt opt run sbin selinux srv tmp 01-bin.squashfs
mksquashfs lib 02-lib.squashfs
mksquashfs usr 03-usr.squashfs
mksquashfs var 04-var.squashfs
mksquashfs boot home root 05-home-root.squashfs
mksquashfs <some-additions> 06-tools.squashfs
maybe more clear structure for distrib's?
Not now, but in future ...

live-boot v.2.0.15 can load/mount up to 7 base *.squashfs modules at start.

Sergey.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 15:32    Post subject:  

Here`s pizzasgoods page for retrovol ( haven`t checked to see if it`s needed, but I like it ).
This page for the project and bottom of page says: This software is released into the public domain.

https://github.com/pizzasgood/retrovol
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 17:03    Post subject:  

Toni I finally had a success booting wheezy
and using the vmlinuz1 have not tested the other one.
That boot gives a lot or errors but still boots to a working x

But the vmlinuz2 give less error messages
but the Browser fails to get google.com going

So not sure what that means.

this is the first time I got wheezy going so
the changes you did worked well so great thanks.
Late at night here and my eyes feel very sleepy
so see you tomorrow
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 17:43    Post subject:  

Here are my 5 cents in a piggy bank.
Screenshoter based on the old and time-tested "scrot".
GUI made ​​myself when I studied the Linux GTK+

I can not remember the size of files to install "scrot"
Without installation "scrot" this will not work.
Maybe it will come in handy.
The archive link are:
C-source file Makefile, executable, and screenshots.
http://www.mediafire.com/?l79j1cb2ll4gbhc

Sergey.
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fredx181

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 842
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec 2013, 19:47    Post subject:  

Hi all
As I said before I've been experimenting with the "porteus way" of running portable live system,persistency combined with Toni's wheezy-light.
So it's pure debian, apt-get works etc... (nothing to do with slackware)
Except the initrd.xz is from porteus and kernel is 3.9.11-porteus (on TODO list to make it work with stock debian kernel).
The initrd.xz is modified by me but I'm not yet satisfied completely.
Some things I need help to improve if possible e.g. mount message at boot and unmounting not all properly at shutdown.
It's based on Toni's wheezy but added more applications, window manager is openbox with on top of it xfce4 ( not full xfce)
The reason for openbox is just because I like xfce and wasn't able to combine it nicely with icwm.
Added:
- alsa
- gtk2
- iceweasel
- frisbee
- pup-volume-monitor
- obshutdown
- openbox
- filemnt: mount .xzm, .dat .sfs, .squashfs, .4fs, .iso
- leafpad
- xfce4-panel
- xfdesktop
- thunar
- conky
- ntfs-3g

Removed:
- live-boot
- live-boot-initramfs-tools

Still very light and low memory usage.
It is larger of course than original wheezy-light (around 100MB)
Can make later if wanted a porteus based original small wheezy-light.
The .squashfs extension is now .xzm and are located in /debian/base and can be placed also in /debian/modules

THIS IS FOR TESTING, NOT READY YET!

How to use with boot options see here:
http://www.porteus.org/tutorials/26-general-info-tutorials/117-cheatcodes-what-they-are-and-how-to-use-them.html

But here some examples for grub(4dos):
Create new folder say for this example "portdeb" on root of some drive, say sda1 (hd0,0) --adjust this to what you prefer--
Extract in portdeb so you get "/portdeb/debian" (do NOT change name of "debian' folder)

This will create automaticly /portdeb/debian/changes folder for changes:
Code:
title Portdeb (sda1/portdeb)
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel (hd0,0)/portdeb/vmlinuz noauto copy2ram from=/portdeb/ changes=/portdeb/debian/
  initrd (hd0,0)/portdeb/initrd.xz


This need to be created "changes.dat" (or whatever custom name) savefile first for saving changes (see below for how to create):
Code:
title Portdeb (sda1/portdeb)
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel (hd0,0)/portdeb/vmlinuz noauto copy2ram from=/portdeb/ changes=/portdeb/debian/changes.dat
  initrd (hd0,0)/portdeb/initrd.xz


This way of saving changes is equivalent of "pupmode=13" in puppy , saving changes only at shutdown (my favorite Smile ):
Code:
title Portdeb (sda1/portdeb)
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel (hd0,0)/portdeb/vmlinuz noauto copy2ram from=/portdeb/ changes=EXIT:/portdeb/debian/changes.dat
  initrd (hd0,0)/portdeb/initrd.xz


Note for last example: there will be prompt for save or not to save but only when running X; choose "Logout" from menu. Also for prompt to create savefile first time boot.

To make changes.dat size 500Mb filesystem ext4:
Code:
dd if=/dev/zero of=changes.dat bs=1M count=500
mkfs.ext4 -q -m 0 -F changes.dat


But there's also gui "Create Savefile" for that using yad in the menu and on desktop.

The mounted directory for changes is /mnt/live/memory/changes (simular to /live/cow)
The mounted directory for changes saved when "changes=EXIT:/..." is used is: /mnt/live/memory/images/changes-exit

Here's Porteus-Wheezy.tar.gz (didn't make iso yet so only for frugal install)
EDIT: Is now Porteus-Wheezy.iso:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCDlZZ8K5UEhkbmlWSjAwYW8/edit?usp=sharing

@sklimkin
Yes I will give info about how the scripts are chained (and more) later... it's complicated for sure.

Regards
Fredx

Last edited by fredx181 on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 19:37; edited 1 time in total
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