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Lucid Puppy 5.2.8 - Updated ISO Version 005 - APR 05 2012
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Mon 16 Dec 2013, 21:38    Post_subject:  

playdayz wrote:
I did that (just removed the drivers module from Quickpet) Bigpup originally for Sulu because there were no proprietary drivers for that kernel and it was an experiment anyway so I did not want anyone to try a bad driver..

I thought I would have done it for 3HD--I should have because the Lucid drivers won't work for it, but there were proprietary drivers for slacko 5.3.1 that would work afaik. They are listed on the 3HD main page http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=552539#552539 Maybe rerwin can remove that module from Quickpet for future 3HD 5.2.8.6
I am confused as to what you are suggesting.

I have uploaded 2 new versions of Super Lupu, using my own hybridization technique derived from peebee's method described in the thread about "switching kernels". At some point I will post how I did it, in that thread. The new sulus are here:
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/dc28t2rkua3kw/Disk_Images-5.2.8.6

Yesterday, I re-uploaded lupu and lupu3hd (20131215), so am removing the preview version.

I am most excited that I am able to build lupu on the kernel from precise 5.7.1-retro! It is lupusuper2. I have not "wrung it out", but it does boot to the desktop like any other lupu. Please consider it as "experimental" at least until a few people have tried it. My goal is to provide a lupu version that supports some of the newer functions, such as xz compression and maybe UDF, as well as analog modems. But I will need assistance from those more knowledgeable in the new functions, to identify areas of incompatibility and work through them, if possible. If there are no showstoppers, that version could become a primary upgraded version.

As part of making the newer kernels useful in lupu, I would like to address the graphic driver issues, although I have no special insight about all of that. The first item appears to be the QuickPet "driver module". Playdayz, please guide me through that, if you would. I want to wrap up 5.2.8.6 functionality by year's end, if we can, so need to get this done soon.

In addition to these sulus, readky and I have been developing the hybridization technique on lupus using kernels 3.5.2 and 3.9.9. I plan to add them soon, as lupusupers 3 and 4, but may wait until I have more info on the graphic driver situation. I envision providing a list of the sulus with recommendations for choosing a particular one. As I see it, I assume later kernels imply more risk of incompatibility is some areas; one should choose the oldest 3.x kernel that suffices.

Thanks to those of you who can test these sulus and help me resolve any problems with them.
Richard
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5102
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 03:59    Post_subject:  

Having Quickpet able to offer manufactures graphic drivers, to me is a must have for any version of Lucid Puppy.
That is one of the best features of Quickpet.
A quick way to get the best driver for your graphics hardware.

rerwin,

As I understand it.
If you change the Linux Kernel. The manufactures graphics drivers have to be compiled for that kernel.
So, what is shown in Quickpet->drivers
Has to be drivers compiled for the specific kernel in that version of Lucid.

I guess that makes you have to compile, a set of manufactures graphics drivers, for each version of Lucid, that uses a different Linux kernel.

Here are some Nvidia drivers for Lupu3hd
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=730363#730363

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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 10:02    Post_subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Having Quickpet able to offer manufactures graphic drivers, to me is a must have for any version of Lucid Puppy.
That is one of the best features of Quickpet.
A quick way to get the best driver for your graphics hardware.
I concur. Although I do not intend to get into the business of trying to compile graphics drivers, I think we should be able to use those already compiled for the kernels we use. The question I have is the way we should provide them.

The obvious best solution seems to be to add them to the lupu repo and somehow get QuickPet to recognize them. That is something only playdayz can do; I would update QuickPet per his instructions. My other thought is to include the pet packages in the ISO images, for users to install from the CD.

Can we first sort that out before I take any action?
Richard

Afterthought: Two other options would be to either put all of the graphic drivers -- one of each type -- into an SFS file or just build them into the main puppy file in the ISO image. What would be the problems if I did the latter? You graphics driver experts, please advise me on this. Thanks.
R
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 14:36    Post_subject:  

Quote:
As I understand it.
If you change the Linux Kernel. The manufactures graphics drivers have to be compiled for that kernel.
So, what is shown in Quickpet->drivers
Has to be drivers compiled for the specific kernel in that version of Lucid.

Yes. This is a tough one guys, because Quickpet was 01micko's creation entirely and he wrote all the code. That Drivers section is doing a lot of stuff to determine what driver would be appropriate--which is especially complicated in the case of nvidia drivers, of which there are multiple versions, but ATI might even need more than one driver now. Add to that, compiling the drivers for different kernels is not rocket science but is not trivial either and then making the pets is another complication. If there are to be 2 or 3 added kernels. Yikes! Whoever makes them has to have the appropriate type of video card too.

I can easily place the pets in the repo once they are made and tested, that is not the issue. But having Quickpet work for multiple kernels as it worked for the original kernel will be difficult. To be clear, the Xorg_High will work for all kernels and it would not be difficult to put it on the Drivers tab in Quickpet--just look at the code for original Lupu and use only the Xorg-High code. Otherwise someone would have to adopt the Quickpet Drivers tab code and become proficient enough to modify it for the different kernels.

Also users can compile their own proprietary video drivers, using devx, might be a compromise.

Quote:
I think we should be able to use those already compiled for the kernels we use. The question I have is the way we should provide them.

Yes, that first sentence should be true rerwin. The second sentence is what I was discussing in the main part of the message.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5102
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 15:11    Post_subject:  

Not sure if it could be as easy as this, but look what I see.

In Lupu3hd
Quickpet->drivers
Select Nvidia
I get a a list of drivers for the kernel in Lupu3hd

In Quickpet-> preferences
I am using a different repository than Ibbilio.org

Maybe the drivers just need to be in the repository Quickpet is using.
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quickpet.jpg


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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4238
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 15:34    Post_subject:  

playdayz wrote:
... Quickpet was 01micko's creation entirely and he wrote all the code. That Drivers section is ....
Could Quickpet be adapted to predetermine which kernel is in use and then run accordingly. This way adaptations might be minimal with a simple switch...maybe.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5722
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 15:38    Post_subject:  

Quick test of lupusuper2.on a semi-old box live pfix=ram. All basics working on initial boot.
Only thing so far, Quickpet recommends the wrong driver for this kernel. See Screenshot.

# report-video
VIDEO REPORT: Super Lucid , version 002

Chip description:
VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C61 [GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a] (rev a2)

Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Modules requested to be loaded: dbe glx dri

Probing Xorg startup log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
Loaded modules: dbe ddc dri dri2 extmod fb glx i2c int10 kbd mouse nv ramdac record vgahw xaa

Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 1440x900 pixels (402x251 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes

...the above also recorded in /tmp/report-video

Actually using the "nv" driver.


Code:
# free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:      3374404       595552      2778852            0        52472
 Swap:      8294396            0      8294396
Total:     11668800       595552     11073248
#


-Computer-
Processor : 2x AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5200+
Memory : 3374MB (187MB used)
Machine Type : Physical machine
Operating System : Puppy Linux
User Name : root (root)
Date/Time : Tue Dec 17 13:48:38 2013
-Display-
Resolution : 1440x900 pixels
OpenGL Renderer : Unknown
X11 Vendor : The X.Org Foundation
-Audio Devices-
Audio Adapter : HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia

-Version-
Kernel : Linux 3.2.48 (i686)
Version : #1 SMP Thu Jul 11 12:20:55 GMT-8 2013
C Library : GNU C Library version 2.11.1 (stable)
Distribution : Puppy Linux
desktop.jpg
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quickpet.jpg

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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 15:52    Post_subject: lupusuper1 temporarily withdrawn  

I discovered that lupusuper1 was incorrectly built on kernel 2.6.37.6 instead of 3.0.25, so have removed from the set of downloads. I expect to replace it later today.
Richard
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5722
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue 17 Dec 2013, 16:05    Post_subject:  

THD live pfix=ram.Everything working on initial boot.Quickpet did recommend the correct driver.

# report-video
VIDEO REPORT: Three-Headed_Dog, version 001

Chip description:
VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C61 [GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a] (rev a2)

Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Modules requested to be loaded: dbe glx dri

Probing Xorg startup log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
Loaded modules: dbe ddc dri dri2 extmod fb glx i2c int10 kbd mouse nv ramdac record vgahw xaa

Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 1440x900 pixels (402x251 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes

...the above also recorded in /tmp/report-video

Code:
# free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:      3375104       574820      2800284            0        42832
 Swap:      8294396            0      8294396
Total:     11669500       574820     11094680
#


Same hardware as above. Looks good.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5722
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 18 Dec 2013, 01:21    Post_subject:  

Fresh frugal install of lupu-5.2.8.6-20131215 on the old Athlon XP box. Looks good.

# report-video
VIDEO REPORT: Lucid , version 528

Chip description:
VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV18 [GeForce4 MX 440 AGP 8x] (rev c1)

Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Depth (bits, or planes): 24
Modules requested to be loaded: dbe glx dri
Drivers requested to be loaded: nvidia

Probing Xorg startup log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
Driver loaded (and currently in use): nvidia
Loaded modules: dbe dri dri2 extmod fb glx kbd mouse ramdac record

Actual rendering on monitor:
Resolution: 1440x900 pixels (411x263 millimeters)
Depth: 24 planes

...the above also recorded in /tmp/report-video
# glxgears
Running synchronized to the vertical refresh. The framerate should be
approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate.
4245 frames in 5.0 seconds
5975 frames in 5.0 seconds
6021 frames in 5.0 seconds
5993 frames in 5.0 seconds
6057 frames in 5.0 seconds
6035 frames in 5.0 seconds
5974 frames in 5.0 seconds

-Computer-
Processor : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2400+
Memory : 1034MB (170MB used)
Machine Type : Physical machine
Operating System : Puppy Linux
User Name : root (root)
Date/Time : Tue Dec 17 23:35:51 2013
-Display-
Resolution : 1440x900 pixels
OpenGL Renderer : GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!
X11 Vendor : The X.Org Foundation
-Audio Devices-
Audio Adapter : VIA8233 - VIA 8235

Code:
# free
              total         used         free       shared      buffers
  Mem:      1034888       593708       441180            0        35092
 Swap:      1228932            0      1228932
Total:      2263820       593708      1670112
#
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Wed 18 Dec 2013, 01:44    Post_subject:  

I have rebuilt lupusuper1 and built lupusuper3. They are uploaded to join the rest of the lupus at:
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/dc28t2rkua3kw/Disk_Images-5.2.8.6

I expect to add lupusuper4 tomorrow.

The lupusupers are still considered experimental. I recommend using the lowest-numbered version that meets your hardware needs, because the risks of incompatibility probably increase with later kernels.

As I see them:
    Lupusuper1 is the first version that supports xz compression, used in recent puppies.

    Lupusuper2 also has analog modem support and should be able to use video drivers built for precise 5.7.1 (kernel 3.2.48).

    Lupusupers 3 and 4 are suggested by radky, who might provide more info on their benefits, if any, beyond the additional drivers for newer hardware.

Many thanks go to radky for his patience while I refined the technique of kernel substitution. And for his extensive testing and reporting of issues to be fixed, as well as the new set of backgrounds (now in the supers, soon in lupu).
Richard
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Thu 19 Dec 2013, 12:21    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Not sure if it could be as easy as this, but look what I see.

In Lupu3hd
Quickpet->drivers
Select Nvidia
I get a a list of drivers for the kernel in Lupu3hd

I am surprised. I tested 3HD drivers for an ATI card and it downloaded the wrong one. I am glad the nvidia drivers work. There are 2 parts to the code: one part determines what kind of card therefore driver one needs and the second part downloads it. It does look like someone could adapt that second part so if someone clicked Nvidia it would show them proper drivers, maybe identifying by kernel number. Determining which of those nvidia drivers they actually need is still tedious at least, and still someone would have to adapt that code for each lupu and build (or collect) all those drivers. It could be done surely, but I am sorry that I would not be able to be the one to do it. You will notice that 01micko has removed this from slacko, which suggests the difficulty of maintaining it. etc.

Add: I see that the code is still in Slacko 5.6.5 under Setup -> Graphics Drivers. It would be a challenge for some clever person to adapt it back to the new Lupu's.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5102
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:48    Post_subject:  

rerwin,

Are you starting to have a graphics driver Linux kernel headache? Twisted Evil Very Happy

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 15:33    Post_subject:  

Bigpup wrote:
Quote:
rerwin,

Are you starting to have a graphics driver Linux kernel headache?

I bet he his. There are a number of things in Lucid that were a big pain but that I thought were justified in terms of the quality of the user experience. I still do but I am sure there were times 01micko dreaded it when I had a "great idea." But wait a minute, I remember when Bigpup thought it was a great idea to make all of the Help work! That was a big pain and well worth it I agree.

In this case of the proprietary drivers things are even worse because of the different kernels. I think what I might do (if I were doing it) is maybe link to the Xorg-High driver on the Drivers Tab and then refer users to the forum for the proprietary drivers. Or even just leave it alone and make a note on the first page of the 5.2.8.6 forum (maybe plus links to the appropriate drivers). It is much easier to make that change on a forum page than in the code of Lupu and at some point rerwin (as every designer) has to consider cost/benefit.
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1513
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sun 22 Dec 2013, 17:47    Post_subject: Candidates for long-term release version of 5.2.8.6 uploaded  

I have made all of the adjustments I can think of to make the Super Lucid Pup (sulu) versions go together correctly. and have included those fixes in all variants of lupu/sulu, for consistency. I hope this set, 20131221, will be the last for awhile, since the feedback implies that there are no "showstoppers". Here, again, is the link to lupu...20131221:
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/dc28t2rkua3kw/Disk_Images-5.2.8.6

The new set includes LibreOffice 4.1.4 (in lupulibre and lupuplus and as a separate download). My plan is to release updates as LibreOffice is upgraded, at least through the last of the 4.1 series, 4.1.6, in the spring.

I have updated the history back on page 158:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=726108#726108
and then the 5.2.8.6 main page.

I would like to see feedback and development conversations continue in this thread and to reserve the 5.2.8.6 thread for information that benefits users of the new lupu. Please keep "Video Info GLX" reports in this feedback thread, to avoid growing the 5.2.8.6 thread into an excessive number of pages that would overwhelm/discourage users seeking information.

Regarding additional functionality in 20131221 versus 20131215, there is little difference in the "lupus". The main changes are to remasterpup2 to accommodate the "kernel switching" needed to build the "sulus" (2-4).

Regarding the video graphics drivers, they are way out of my league, so I am not attempting to include anything about them in the release. However, I will do what I can to support efforts to make the proprietary drivers available. Message 3 of the 5.2.8.6 thread is reserved for links to packages that can be added to Lucid Pup. The driver links would go there. I can host the drivers at my download site, if necessary or desirable, and can modify QuickPet as necessary, in a supplemental pet package.
Richard
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