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 Forum index » Off-Topic Area » Security
Booting Linux CD *bricks* Samsung UEFI laptops
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 09:15    Post subject:  

Kirk and JamesBond have to correct me
but as I vaguely remember first they
some "key" that they used

But had to later abandon that one
and kind of start all over due to something
me don't remember and they have still
not found a solid solution to what they discovered?

But I do have a poor memory so maybe they did solve it
and me either have read and forgot or they are still
working on to find that solution.

gcmartin can you help me find the link to
a text from them that say they have found
the solution now? I fail to imagine what search
word to use.

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2333
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 12:08    Post subject:  

how they got it to work is pure gold. Using Hybrid mode of isolinux with the multiboot methods included in ISO filesystem format They have embedded both mbr style drive layout and a GPT overlay that makes a second of reference to a file on the optical drive. That file is actually a false disk of a EFI bootable image as a file. This allows the system to boot EFI Grub2 style menu.lst that finds the FatDog Kernel and Initrd back in the original old school layer and boots them.
We need to expand the trick so the extra space on I USB flashdrive can also be seen from within Win8. Now Win8 can only see the tiny 10M EFI drive image. Not the rest of the flashdrive even if its formated as NTFS. Cool
Second thing is a frugal type of setup, is doable and I did it on accident. But not exactly sure how to reproduce. I think I removed the FatDog boot flash before Grub dropped into kernel load and when I did not locate FatDogs Kernel on the flash it hunted it down on the harddrive and loaded it from there. It was superfast load.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 12:34    Post subject:  

cool, wish I knew more or me less dim or kind of lost.

I have loved computers since 1955 something
them reported on in our Public Service Radio.

And I tried to get hold on them as soon as
that got affordable. But despite me buying
all the books about programming I failed
to be as logical and structured as is needed.

Back on topic. Now coming Wednesday
I have a new chance to buy a UEFI computer.

I hesitate. I don't trust me can follow the instructions

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2333
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 12:57    Post subject:  

windows can't be borked if it is not in the computer. I asked if the el cheapo model had a easy to add memory and REMOVE harddrive before I bought it. It did only one screw and EVERYTHING IS BEHIND that one cover that is 80 percent of the back. The cover was on a slide rails like a kitchen drawer and had a hook with the battery remove button so It stays in place with out the screw. Now swappingHD is even easier than my desktop server. Very Happy Looks like it has a spot for a inside flashdrive as well sdhc type.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2333
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 13:04    Post subject:  

step one no Samsung.
step two remove windows HD
step three download fatdog64v621

step 4 with flash drive

dd if=fatdog64.iso of=/dev/sda sdb sdc etc whatever matches flashdrive

move to USB Port and turn on new EFI

let Fatdog find itself and a few screen changes later... desktop.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 15:18    Post subject:  

Edit Ted the threaad title is

" Booting Linux CD *bricks* Samsung UEFI laptops
"
did you do this on a Samsung Laptop
that had Win 8 and UEFI? If it was another computer
then it says nothing about what happens to the Samsung!


Ah what a clever solution to saving the Ms Win8

So the UEFI is in the HD and not in ROM
soldered to the Motherboard?

Or you mean that you save Ms Win 8
but still have the UEFI refusing to let you boot?

I understand that one can save the HD that way
but the ROM is still there and is that one dependent
on the HD for to stop no-authorised software?

What does such samsung HD cost then? Are they not very special
for each brand of LapTop?

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2333
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 16:34    Post subject:  

yes EFI boot IS part of the hardDRIVE very little is in firmware. The complex hardware drivers needed more room So THE FIRST FAT LIKE partition IS EFI drivers for whatever machine exists.
EFI has been designed to allow complex server hardware configuration say LIKE 16 to 32 ethernet cards per motherboard, etc. BIOS could never be expected to extend to that level.
But between the time this has dropped into personal computer use the OSes like linux and even Windows shifted the extra hardware into complex code to figure out what is where and patch it up to a running system. That is why it still takes so long to boot into a desktop. If BIOS was replaced at Y2K. Then very large sets of driver tables firmware loaders and the like would never have been needed. Wink and boot time would be near instant.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2333
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 17:14    Post subject:  

Yes win8 requires SIGNED executable within EFI boot folder approved by the firmware. Validation was done against one of the MASTER keys of the hardware. RedHat fought this and was allowed to have ITs masterkey added as allowed to execute. Linux distros use a subkey tied back to RedHat Master as does individual companies making special versions of Windows are given subkeys of Windows master.
But most all hardware first boots into unsecure mode which windows install flips to secure mode from that point forward ie lockin hardware. This allows you or I to boot or install any UNAUTHORIZED linux build to our hearts desires IF WE NEVER INSTALLED WINDOWS8. So removing windows8 before setup allows free use of hardware. But once used by Win8 well you may lose the ablity to use machine for anything but Windows or RedHat linux.
As it stands now that lock in issue has been functionally obliterated. But windows still treats the machine as its own as the harddrive goes. It does very little within EFI boot partition but a thin efi boot loader into main win8 partition. There is a lot of unused space enough for one complete frugal install of 280Megs or less.
Frugal install into the main drive of windows was never a good IDEA. But that windows did not burn us or us windows is just luck.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 19:21    Post subject:  

Ted Dog much appreciated that you took time to give us that info.

Here in Sweden the Win8 is already installed
but if I get you correctly as long as one don't
boot into Windows then it does not lock the
firmware built into the MotherBoard?

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