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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 03:51    Post_subject:  

Thanks Toni I did download wheezy last night Smile

But this text from you makes me worried.
Quote:

Don't forget wheezy has two kernels inside.


So how do I tell at boot up which one it should make use of
or does it ask at boot and one chose?

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 03:55    Post_subject:  

Tony; I agree with you wholeheartedly. One thing at a time...

1) My skills are not up to Deb-Live building. I can`t get Wheezy to sudo make a file...

2) I like "made by me", because I have control over the results.
I like the simplicity of removing and adding pkgs. over a complex build process.
Simple... Strip a distro down to nearly nothing but utilities. Now others can "create".

I got your Wheezy to boot with the persistence file you provided ( Thanks...).
Seems to behave well, W3M doesn`t work. Did apt update and I`ll try installing stuff.
Looked at the "Debian setup", vastly complex compared to Puppy, of course.
Stuff in the strangest places, mounts in /lib and other such oddities. "It`s Debian."

I`ll let you know how I do making my own Wheezy setup. Thanks again Toni. Terry B.
.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2654
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 04:36    Post_subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
I`ll let you know how I do making my own Wheezy setup. Thanks again Toni. Terry B.
.


Hi, Terry,
just a small advice. Try to save the smallest core without xorg you can. Then keep it in 01.squashfs. Add packages in save file and then create 02.squashfs from it. It will be autoloaded on boot if you keep it in /live folder. You can load 7 or 9 squash files without problems.
This way you will have the base in separate file and if something gets wrong no need to start from 0.

Nooby,
vmlinuz1 = no-pae kernel
vmlinuz2=pae kernel

Cheers, Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2654
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 04:41    Post_subject:  

tony wrote:
HI,Can someone advise on a wallpaper setter and how to use it.

In squeezy was very easy to put the picture with right name in root.
Whit Wheezy JWM version I can't do it this way.
I will let you know when I manage to find a way.

Cheers, Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2654
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 05:15    Post_subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
W3M doesn`t work..

The JWM menu item is removed. W3M works from terminal this way:
Code:
w3m http://murga-linux.com

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 05:31    Post_subject:  

I got iceweasel installed, seems good, and 8 desktops, I like it.!
I`m posting this on Wheezy & IceWeazel. A bit of work and it`ll shine..!


Need to know what apps there are for setting the background wallpaper.
No one app probably won`t work for all WMs ( JWM ). Each needs it`s own.
Saintless, I made a wallpaper setter for Puppy, could be modded for this.

Does Aptitude or Synaptic give a GUI list of apps.?
If one does, then it should be part of your base setup.

Thanks for the building advice. Your base Wheezy doesn`t have xorg?
That should be part of a bigger base setup.


nooby; I think PAE is 32 bit cpus ( pre Athlon & P4 ), and non-PAE is 64 bit cpus.
.
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 156
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 07:32    Post_subject: To add or to subtract - not a question  

Hi everyone!

Allow me to express some of my thoughts out loud (the arguments ) . Rolling Eyes
There are several methods for creating your own Linux OS image .
1. In this and the next topic (Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Squeeze) the author proposed and showed his new method . Someone called it reverse engineering. I would call it " subtraction method ."
Toni takes a distribution ready and removes unnecessary.

2 . There is another , perhaps more traditional method . I would call it "The method of addition."
I use this method. With the help of Debian debootstrap program obtain the base distribution ( it does not even have kernel), and then use chroot creates additional medium ( it is also called " sandbox") , which retrofitted kernel, networking stack , graphics stack (if necessary) and the most different programs by the user.
I'm a little illustrated (see my links above) , this method , but nothing new to him not added .

3 . The main criteria in the evaluation of the method:
- operability of the system
- the size of the resulting image of the system - the key word "Light"
- opportunity to modernize the resulting system
- repeatability of the results achieved by the author
- and finally an opportunity to improve the present method .

In my humble opinion it is implemented by all and continues to improve his technique . For which he thanks. Exclamation

4 . Choice as a base Debian system has at least the advantage of a huge number of storage programs.

5 . Author positions its distributions also as a link with the various Puppy-Linux. This is another important point.

6. There is a team that puppyrus.org several years developing Russian versions of Puppy. This team has a developer who did some implementations Linux operating system , using as a "donor ": Debian CrunchBang, Debian Squeese, Debian Wheezy, Ubuntu (10.04 - 12.10) and now uses Arch-Linux.

I understand that the Russian language in any OS can scare readers of this topic. Shocked
But in this case it's not about the localization system and a successful connection possibilities Debian and Puppy "in a bottle." I think that's worth looking at the techniques and technology of creating Debian + Puppy Linux. At least it will expand our understanding of the topic of discussion.

Here are links to its distributions (you can use the Google-translator):
http://uco.puppyrus.org/forum/thread176.html
http://uco.puppyrus.org/forum/thread218.html
http://uco.puppyrus.org/forum/thread229.html
http://forum.puppyrus.org/index.php/board,154.0.html
http://forum.puppyrus.org/index.php/topic,14534.0.html
https://sourceforge.net/projects/puppyrusa

7. The choice of method for "its own" operating system is at the user. A "add" and "subtract" accounts of any method.

8. If something in my text is not clear, then all claims to http://translate.google.com Shocked

P.S.
I think that now the priorities are shifting to:
- Efficient loading and unloading of programs in the form *.sfs
- Packing newly installed programs in a separate container (zip, sfs, xz, ...)
This is due to the improvement of existing Persistece (presistent).
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2654
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 08:12    Post_subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
I got iceweasel installed, seems good, and 8 desktops, I like it..

Hi, Terry,
you must have the old version. T1 has only 2 desktops. I made the old one not downloadable but still on the site. I will remove it today.

sunburnt wrote:
Saintless, I made a wallpaper setter for Puppy, could be modded for this.

It will be nice.

sunburnt wrote:
Does Aptitude or Synaptic give a GUI list of apps.?
If one does, then it should be part of your base setup.

Synaptic has. I'll check out the dependencies size.

sunburnt wrote:
Your base Wheezy doesn`t have xorg?
That should be part of a bigger base setup.

No, but has bunch of other stuff like cups and printer drivers for example which I removed.

sunburnt wrote:
nooby; I think PAE is 32 bit cpus ( pre Athlon & P4 ), and non-PAE is 64 bit cpus.
.

Both kernels are 32 bit. nonpae is for older hardware.
Pae is for newer with support for more than 4 Gb RAM.

Cheers, Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2654
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 08:27    Post_subject: Re: To add or to subtract - not a question  

sklimkin wrote:

http://uco.puppyrus.org/forum/thread176.html
http://uco.puppyrus.org/forum/thread218.html
http://uco.puppyrus.org/forum/thread229.html
http://forum.puppyrus.org/index.php/board,154.0.html
http://forum.puppyrus.org/index.php/topic,14534.0.html
https://sourceforge.net/projects/puppyrusa


P.S.
I think that now the priorities are shifting to:
- Efficient loading and unloading of programs in the form *.sfs
- Packing newly installed programs in a separate container (zip, sfs, xz, ...)

Thanks for the links, Sergey,
To tell you the truth many of the problems I have with OS or PC I find solution in russian forum pages.

Efficient loading and unloading of programs in the form *.sfs - if you don't do it in the right order (the order of creation of every sfs) you will break dpkg database. I don't know yet what is the solution for this in the links you gave, but here you can find JBV idea included in FoxyRoxyLinux (debian squeezy 6.0.Cool He created orphan packages and after load them the dpkg database is updated in different way. It works like charm:
http://foxyroxylinux.com

Cheers, Toni

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 08:59    Post_subject:  

Thanks to Toni and SunBurnt.

Okay I have 64 bit on the HP/Compaq
so now I know what to do.

But I am lazy so will take a week or two
or a month. My body feel motivated for
listening to sentimental music and other stuff Smile

But I love that you guys experiment on how
to make small versions where the user can add
what he needs later.

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 16:35    Post_subject:  

Saintless; But I assume then that the non-PAE is the one for 64bit as it does > 4 GB.

### Need a simple gui-script to mksquashfs added apps.
But the Save file has other stuff in it ( configs.), so need to separate newly added packages.
Download but don`t install does not help, we need "working & configured" apps to Squash.
Once apps are "installed" and Squashed, then it`s easy to combine and split them.
# I`m not much of an app builder, someone more experienced than I needs to figure this out.
# 2 ways: "find" new files and Squash them, or maybe add a temp. extra Save layer for install.

# I`ll look at modding my wallpaper setter to work, should be easy as Rox is the Desktop Man.
# Wallpaper setter is BaCon, but I can make a GtkDialog version as Puppy is the model here.

# Suggestion: IF Puppy is the model, then GtkDialog should be part of the base setup too.
# Suggestion: Perhaps include BaCon into the base Wheezy, BaCon + Docs is only ~ 1 MB.
.
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 156
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 17:12    Post_subject: load--unload & live-snapshot  

Quote:
Toni: If your result is 200 Mb iso with LXDE Debian 7.2 it is very good result I think.

This is the result of "surgery" in the DIR's / usr / share and / var

Quote:
Toni: Moving /live inside other folder with different name is what I found as an option to change the top folder name and it works with Grub Legacy. I'm not sure if there is a way to simply rename live folder.

And what happens if you make a link with the name of "live" on the DIR
live.lnk -> /lib/
and so on:
image.lnk -> /lib/live/mount/medium/
cow.lnk -> /lib/live/mount/overlay/
mnt.lnk -> /lib/live/mount/rootfs/
sfs.lnk -> /lib/live/mount/medium/_sfs/

It would be nice to add a minimum xrandr, I did so:
apt-get update
apt-cache search xrandr
apt-get install x11-xserver-utils
apt-get clean

xrandr // this outputs possible screen resoltions
xrandr --output default --mode 1152x864 //or for example:
xrandr --output default --mode 1280x1024

In this panel JWM-menu moves up slightly, but it's better than 800x600

Quote:
sunburnt: I got Wheezy working with the save file, shows it mounted.
Did "update" and installed live-build, all okay
.
I have no doubt in the method of live-build by additional partitions (Toni).
But I'm not haunted method Puppy sfs-connection inside Live-ISO-image and create live-snapshot also within Live-ISO-image.
I often use ISO-images in a virtual machine.

Quote:
sunburnt: Sergey; I assume that live-build only makes a build of the running Deb. version.?

Yes, but live-snapshot keeps track of all changes in the system and makes it "cast" as <live-sn-XXX.cpio.gz>, which can be loaded in the next session.
This "cast" has rw-attributes and placed in the root directory in which the system itself.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 17:49    Post_subject:  

sklimkin; A big requirement is being able to make Squash files from new app installs.

# Is there a way to use live-snapshot to do this.?

# Ideally the new apps would not be installed into the main Save file, keeping it clean.

I can write a app packager if I know where the ( dir. or list.? ) is, to copy the app from it.

# I understand that Deb. can install to non-standard paths, this would be very good to do.
.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2654
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 18:14    Post_subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Saintless; But I assume then that the non-PAE is the one for 64bit as it does > 4 GB


Hi, Sunburnt,
Here is some information about the pae kernel vmlinuz2 :
http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae
and non pae kernel vmlinuz1 :
http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-3.2.0-4-486
With my old hardware I don't think I can test 64bit kernel. It will not boot with PII and PIII as far as I know.

sunburnt wrote:
# Suggestion: IF Puppy is the model, then GtkDialog should be part of the base setup too.
# Suggestion: Perhaps include BaCon into the base Wheezy, BaCon + Docs is only ~ 1 MB.
.

No problem to include BaCon, but for gtkdialog I suggest to think a little bit more. It adds much to the size.

Wait two days to upload another version with one kernel and ICEWM manager. It is about 105 Mb iso but still needs some more tweaking.
Lets see what options we have for small core and decide after testing both versions.

sunburnt wrote:
### Need a simple gui-script to mksquashfs added apps.
But the Save file has other stuff in it ( configs.), so need to separate newly added packages.
Download but don`t install does not help, we need "working & configured" apps to Squash.
Once apps are "installed" and Squashed, then it`s easy to combine and split them.

If your idea is to have separate sfs files to be loaded and unloaded where we need them, JBV has a solution for FoxyRoxyLinux to keep dpkg database updated and working no mather was is the load sequence of extra sfs files. He calles them Orphan packages in the forum.
We can do the same by adding a script for automatic cleaning and compressing the content of the save file. One script for wheezy and one for squeeze or maybe one for both if we can make it universal.

I suggest not to hurry the next two weeks to do anything else than planning and reading. Lets see if Light-Debian-Core works well and what issues creates.We might have to rebuild it again if something wrong comes up from the tests.

Cheers, Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013, 18:19    Post_subject: Re: load--unload & live-snapshot  

Hi, Sklimkin,
sklimkin wrote:
And what happens if you make a link with the name of "live" on the DIR
live.lnk -> /lib/
and so on:
image.lnk -> /lib/live/mount/medium/
cow.lnk -> /lib/live/mount/overlay/
mnt.lnk -> /lib/live/mount/rootfs/
sfs.lnk -> /lib/live/mount/medium/_sfs/

This is a very good idea to solve the difference in the configuration between wheezy and squeezy. Then the cleaning script might work on both. Need to do some testing.
sklimkin wrote:

Yes, but live-snapshot keeps track of all changes in the system and makes it "cast" as <live-sn-XXX.cpio.gz>, which can be loaded in the next session.
This "cast" has rw-attributes and placed in the root directory in which the system itself.

I've never used this option. Need to read more about. Thanks.

Cheers, Toni

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