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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2648
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec 2013, 14:21    Post subject:  

Hi, Sklimkin,
I guess you mean building new debian base with chroot?
I've never tried loading on the fly. I'm 100% positive it is possible because I know JBV is working on this option for FoxyRoxyLinux and he has a solution.
Live-snapshot - I guess you mean something like:
Code:
mksquashfs /live/cow /live/image/live/shapshot.squashfs


Wheezy does not have Copy On Write or cow folder anymore. It least I can't find any place where the changes take effect. It uses tmpfs on few places I guess. It is a mistery for me why they changed this useful option to create snapshot with your changes without having save file.
Anyway there is a way to remaster wheezy with shapshot from save file or partition called persistence with persistence.conf file inside. This configuration file gives options to save all changes or even changes in only one or few folders (which is good). I think it will be easy to automate snapshot process for both wheezy and squeeze.

I've never build debian with chroot like you so I don't think I can give advice how to fix things there. If I missunderstand something from your post, please, clarify it again.

Cheers, Toni
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec 2013, 14:53    Post subject:  

Smithy and any others; It`s important to distinguish between the Deb-Live distro and Puppy builds.
They are not at all the same... Saintless is basically reverse-engineering Puppy here.

If Deb-Live just keeps changing the setup, then make a stand-alone snapshot builder.
Then it won`t matter what changes they`ve made, set it up as you want and make a clone.
.
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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 461

PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec 2013, 15:22    Post subject:  

Yes I understand what Saintless is doing Sunburnt, he is doing a Dr Frankenstein in his lab.

I've not even tried it yet, because it might be a little advanced for me, and I know me way round Puppy quite a bit, and lately Pemasu Wheezy, so I will hang with that for now, 'cos it is doing everything I need it to and I'm sure the pc seems to run more quietly with it.

I think it's good that people are doing stuff with Puppy, beats ram raiding or drivebye's.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec 2013, 19:29    Post subject:  

I don`t know if I would characterize it as a Dr. Frankenstein, but it`s innovative.

Actually in reality, Puppy is the Frankenstein, or Frankinweeny.? ( Disney movie )
Debian on the other hand is the base for most Linux distros being made today.

# From another post:
amigo called Puppy a square wheel that was being reinvented ( Very Funny... Laughing ).
His apt analogy points out, that to develop Puppy you`re starting out with damaged goods.

I like Saintless`s approach better. Take Deb. Wheezy and reverse engineer a Puppy clone.
Now apt-get and all the other "it-just-works" things about Debian is all part of the package.
Not to mention Debian`s excellent repository of nearly every freeking app ever made.
I don`t intend to pretend that Deb. is perfect, but many have my opinion it`s the best choice.
.

Last edited by sunburnt on Tue 10 Dec 2013, 19:54; edited 4 times in total
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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec 2013, 19:31    Post subject: Debian (wheezy & squeese) - live-tools  

Hi Toni,
Quote:
If I missunderstand something from your post, please, clarify it again.

To clarify (I do not know English) here are some links.
How could I tried to express their thoughts and results in English.
I hope that you do not scare the inscription in Russian online sharing services.

http://yadi.sk/d/Juoa0RVbCouhv - debian-live dir shared
-------------------------------------------------------
about-debian-live.txt 1 KB
http://yadi.sk/d/YN4EpoJcE85q4

HowToMake-custom-Live-CD-ISO.txt 14 KB
http://yadi.sk/d/sGStG4-QDFA4m

install-debian+LXDE+slim-log.txt 24 KB
http://yadi.sk/d/40iR7vznE86Sk

debian-wheezy-LXDE-live.iso 262.6 MB
http://yadi.sk/d/jaDtHF5RDF9FD


http://yadi.sk/d/yjJolP5ICqWMB - ubuntu-live dir shared
-------------------------------------------------------
ubuntu-lucid-gnome-panel_sfs.iso 307.9 MB
http://yadi.sk/d/tIT2aDSEDr8q9

http://yadi.sk/d/yOT-R-iv7x8Qc - ubuntu-sfsl-130809-live (mod) dir shared
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
ubuntu-live-130809m.iso 146.8 MB
http://yadi.sk/d/6ASHDRMzDFArX

!!! The best !!!
----------------
http://blog.willhaley.com/create-a-custom-debian-live-environment/
https://wiki.debian.org/ReduceDebian

Sergey.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5042
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec 2013, 23:45    Post subject:  

Hi sklimkin; I downloaded your ubuntu-live-130809m.iso and it booted straight up.!
Got the login and can`t go any further. How do I get a first login going.?

Also I wondered if you are in Russia, and if so what part / city ?

I tried to get Wheezy iso also, but Yandex is the worst web drive I`ve seen. "Copy" is better.
.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2648
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 01:16    Post subject: Re: Debian (wheezy & squeese) - live-tools  

sklimkin wrote:
I hope that you do not scare the inscription in Russian online sharing services.

Not at all Smile

I'm downloading debian and the smallest ubuntu iso. I will check out the documents sooner I can. Ubuntu best size result is impressive.

Cheers, Toni

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2648
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 01:21    Post subject:  

Smithy wrote:
he is doing a Dr Frankenstein in his lab.

Shocked Shocked Shocked
I take debian live official iso and extract it in read and write mode.
Then I use its own download package manager to remove not essential packages from it and some files, which will be auto-generated again from the system.
I compress the result again.

Cheers, Toni

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 02:21    Post subject:  

Toni a big difference between regular Debian
and your version is that your versions allowed for
that even a total noob could be root while on Debian

On Debian Chat when SickGut asked them about such
the Debian Devs hesitated to even help him to be root.

He solved it anyway as you also have.
So that is to me a big difference in attitude to being root. Smile

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not an ideal solution though
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5933
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 03:10    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Hi sklimkin; I downloaded your ubuntu-live-130809m.iso and it booted straight up.!
Got the login and can`t go any further. How do I get a first login going.?
.


User = root Password = root

Works with both the Ubuntu and Wheezy versions.

Now if I could only read russian....... Laughing

Both versions booted to a correct desktop and get on the net with Dillo. Exploring Ubuntu live right now.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2648
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 04:11    Post subject:  

I'm happy to tell you Wheezy and Squeeze will have unified save file option. When Wheezy version is ready (today I hope) will upload example save file from 1Gb which will be universal for both versions + instructions how to make one for yourself.

Cheers, Toni

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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 09:04    Post subject: Debian (wheezy & squeese) - live-tools  

All greetings from Russia.
I live in Moscow (who asked?).

Thank you for seeing my version of Debian/Ubuntu
This is not fun, but seek opportunities to reduce the monstrous official the distribution.
But by themselves *. Iso which I have laid out in free access - only illustrations (or studies) opportunities for the average user.
I mean "make such distribution, which wants to see anyone."

Sorry I forgot to specify passwords, Everywhere 3 Users:
root - root
user - user
q - 111111
But in ubuntu-live-130809m.iso works only user root (root) - it's features sudo + my poor knowledge of Linux.
Quote:
Now if I could only read russian .....

I'm not supposed to show their work outside the Russian forums, for the reason that the system has only two locale EN and RU, and the interface is fully localized for Russia.
So please take it only as an illustration of the theme: Debian + full squashfs (live-boot live-config live-snapshot) support.

And if this is enough for Ubuntu install packages live-boot and live-initramfs, then Debian is not working:
ubuntu.iso has DIRs /live/cow/ and /live/image/
debian.iso does not.
That's what my question to the author of the theme Toni.

I would be grateful to anyone who will tell me how to fix it in makeshift distributions Debian (squeeze wheezy).

Sergey.

P.S.
Looked at the ubuntu-live-130809m.iso by German eyes - by Englishman ...
Yes it's hard to understand these Russian. Harder only Chinese-Japanese-Korean.
Fortunately, many menu items have a clue with English program names and icons and all are international. Midnight-Commander always written as mc
Therefore, here is a screenshot of switching screen-resolution:
MONITOR-RESOLUTIONS_ubuntu-live-130809m VMware Player.png
Description 
png

 Download 
Filename  MONITOR-RESOLUTIONS_ubuntu-live-130809m VMware Player.png 
Filesize  187.9 KB 
Downloaded  229 Time(s) 
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2648
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 11:17    Post subject: Re: Debian (wheezy & squeese) - live-tools  

sklimkin wrote:
ubuntu.iso has DIRs /live/cow/ and /live/image/
debian.iso does not.
That's what my question to the author of the theme Toni.

I would be grateful to anyone who will tell me how to fix it in makeshift distributions Debian (squeeze wheezy).

Privet, Sergey Smile

Debian Squeeze (oldstable) does have /live/cow and /live/image
Debian Wheezy (stable) changed /live/image to /lib/live/mount/medium
It also mounts /lib/live/mount/medium in read-only mode. Do not ask me way. Security matter I guess.
Debian Wheezy does not have /live/cow anymore, so you can not make snapshots without save file like you can do that in Debian Squeeze and Ubuntu.
Work around for this is:
Download from here 1Gb-persistence-or-live-rw.zip :
http://www.smokey01.com/saintless/
Extract it on top of any partition but not on the partition you boot from (/lib/live/mount/medium). It is mounted read-only on boot nad it can't use the save file.
You have inside the archive 1 Gb save file called persistence with configuration file called persistence.conf and content / union
This gives you save file to save all changes.
Add to the kernel boot line the word persistence and reboot. Debian Wheezy will use the save file.
Didn't test it yet but this file will get location /lib/live/mount/overlay
You can easy create snapshot from your working system with:
Code:
mksquashfs /lib/live/mount/overlay /lib/live/mount/medium

If you wander way /lib/live/mount/medium since it is read-only mounted I have a fix for this. Soon I will post it.

BTW you can rename persistence to live-rw and use it with Debian Squeeze also.

Cheers, Toni

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sklimkin

Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 151
Location: Russia Moscow

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 13:36    Post subject: Debian (wheezy & squeese) - live-tools  

Thank you, Toni (especially for the word "Privet").
Your method is probably the most effective response to the "machinations" of the debian team Laughing
After reading your article http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90629
I suddenly found that I have debian-7.2 - a big difference for the live-... utils.

The situation is a little clearer.
Toni uses debian-live-6.0.0-i386-standard.iso
I worked with debian-minbase analogue debian-live-7.2-i386-standard.iso
Here are some (essential for live-boot and live-snapshot) differences:
Quote:
debian-live-6.0.0-i386-standard.iso 05-Feb-2011 23:00 222M
------------------------------------------------------------
linux-base 2.6.32-30
linux-image-2.6-486 2.6.32+29
linux-image-2.6-686 2.6.32+29
linux-image-2.6.32-5-486 2.6.32-30
linux-image-2.6.32-5-686 2.6.32-30

debian-live-6.0.8-i386-standard.iso 21-Oct-2013 07:48 282M
[ ] debian-live-6.0.8-i386-standard.iso.packages 21-Oct-2013 07:47 6.0K
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
linux-base 2.6.32-48squeeze4
linux-image-2.6-486 2.6.32+29
linux-image-2.6-686 2.6.32+29
linux-image-2.6.32-5-486 2.6.32-48squeeze4
linux-image-2.6.32-5-686 2.6.32-48squeeze4

live-boot 2.0.15-1
live-boot-initramfs-tools 2.0.15-1
live-config 2.0.15-1
live-config-sysvinit 2.0.15-1
live-initramfs 2.0.15-1

[ ] debian-live-7.2-i386-standard.iso 13-Oct-2013 21:03 539M
[ ] debian-live-7.2-i386-standard.iso.packages 13-Oct-2013 20:59 14K
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
linux-base 3.5
linux-image-3.2.0-4-486 3.2.51-1
linux-image-3.2.0-4-686-pae 3.2.51-1
linux-image-486 3.2+46
linux-image-686-pae 3.2+46

live-boot 3.0.1-1
live-boot-doc 3.0.1-1
live-boot-initramfs-tools 3.0.1-1
live-config 3.0.23-1
live-config-doc 3.0.23-1
live-config-sysvinit 3.0.23-1
live-manual 1:3.0.2-1
live-manual-epub 1:3.0.2-1
live-manual-html 1:3.0.2-1
live-manual-odf 1:3.0.2-1
live-manual-pdf 1:3.0.2-1
live-manual-txt 1:3.0.2-1
live-tools 3.0.20-1
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2648
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013, 14:18    Post subject: Re: Debian (wheezy & squeese) - live-tools  

Hi, Sklimkin,

small correction. I've started with 6.0.0 but it was upgraded to 6.0.8 with dist-upgrade command. So Light-Debian-Core--Squeezy is 6.0.8 + Kernel from 7.2

If your result is 200 Mb iso with LXDE Debian 7.2 it is very good result I think. Mine result from 72 Debian Wheezy is 150 Mb with JWM which is much smaller then LXDE.

Cheers, Toni

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