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Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013) [CLOSED]
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2161
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013, 07:56    Post subject:  

L18L,

momanager is now in devx. I'll look at the rest. BTW I have one question.

I'm a bit wary of using gettext in scripts (but I realise that this is probably the standard way of doing it - the SSS is very messy because you can't see the strings being used in the program itself), so I'd like to ask you about its impact. Using gettext means that every single instantiation of a string now causes a "fork" to launch gettext.

Depending on the program and how it is being used, this can be almost negligible (if that section of the program is only used once), or it can be very heavy (if the string is used in a loop).

So far, how do you feel of the speed impact?

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec 2013, 05:36    Post subject: Fatdog64-630rc1
Subject description: internationalisation
 

jamesbond wrote:
I'm a bit wary of using gettext in scripts (but I realise that this is probably the standard way of doing it - the SSS is very messy because you can't see the strings being used in the program itself), so I'd like to ask you about its impact. Using gettext means that every single instantiation of a string now causes a "fork" to launch gettext.
I do not get what you mean by "can't see the strings", could you provide an example please?

jamesbond wrote:
or it can be very heavy (if the string is used in a loop)
Feel free to define the translated message outside the loop if that is possible.

jamesbond wrote:
So far, how do you feel of the speed impact?
I would like to measure it.
(..and LANG=C #because it is faster? ...LC_MESSAGES does slow it down again?)

..or try again using Puppy's official t12s method.....
Translations would not be lost, can be used again...

(updated momanager follows soon...)
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mories

Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec 2013, 08:07    Post subject: Question on dual graphics  

With Fatdog64-630rc1 in a system with dual graphics ATI Radeon HD 6470M / Intel HD 3000, how I can use or activate the ATI card with open source module "radeon"?
The kernel modules "radeon" and "i915" are loaded, but Xorg always uses the intel/i965 modules.
Or is this only possible with proprietary modules AMD / ATI?
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2161
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec 2013, 09:45    Post subject:  

Quote:
I do not get what you mean by "can't see the strings", could you provide an example please?

I may have been wrong. By the "SSS" method I mean those scripts where i18n is done by putting the strings in variables at the top of the script e.g. MSG1="hello" MSG2="world" and then trying to source "/usr/share/locale/$LANG/msg" which will replace MSG1 & MSG2 with the correct local text. The actual apps don't have embedded strings anymore, they always display using $MSG1 and $MSG2. Is that the SSS method, or is that the t12s method? Smile

Quote:
Feel free to define the translated message outside the loop if that is possible.
Yes, that's what I plan to do - when necessary.

Quote:
I would like to measure it.
(..and LANG=C #because it is faster? ...LC_MESSAGES does slow it down again?)

LANG=C is definitely faster than any other LANG settings. I tested this early on, even with LANG=en_US or LANG=en_AU it is much slower than LANG=C. LC_MESSAGES doesn't slow it down. It's the $(gettext) that I'm worried about. Anyway, "fast" is relative. As long as the difference is not perceptible, then it is not important.

Quote:
With Fatdog64-630rc1 in a system with dual graphics ATI Radeon HD 6470M / Intel HD 3000, how I can use or activate the ATI card with open source module "radeon"?
The kernel modules "radeon" and "i915" are loaded, but Xorg always uses the intel/i965 modules.
Or is this only possible with proprietary modules AMD / ATI?

I'm afraid the state of dual graphics is still in a mess. Your best bet is to go with proprietary driver but we don't have that one yet (we usually only release them on *final* release because during testing we change kernels often). In rc2 the kernel will have debugfs and vgaswitcheroo enabled - but please don't get high hopes on this. Vgaswitcheroo worked for earlier models of dual graphics and with intel/nvidia. But with intel/ati the situation is murky. Anyway, none of us have a machine with that combination, so there isn't much we can do (to test, to experiment). My machine is ati/ati dual graphics. When I used Catalyst driver I could choose which card to use. When I'm using radeon open-source, I'm already glad if my screen isn't blank ...

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec 2013, 10:33    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
... those scripts where i18n is done by putting the strings in variables at the top of the script e.g. MSG1="hello" MSG2="world" and then trying to source "/usr/share/locale/$LANG/msg" which will replace MSG1 & MSG2 with the correct local text. The actual apps don't have embedded strings anymore, they always display using $MSG1 and $MSG2. Is that the SSS method, or is that the t12s method?

I would call this a .... (PITA ?)

t12s is named by me developed from technosaurus' (t12s Very Happy ) input...
localizing-shell-scripts-without bashisms, gettext or ...

SSS is Barry's invention and integrated in his momanager.
It is: translate once (using sed), use always after translated once
or in other words: let us look into 1 example
/usr/share/sss/script_strings/script_strings.de
Code:
[general]
#this "script_strings" SSS domain is intended for any scripts that need translation.
#the SSS technique translates files "in place", meaning that the original file gets replaced by the
#translated file (menu_strings domain is slightly different, in that it first generates English files from
#templates, then translates them). Thus the files are translated *before* execution, whereas the gettext
#and t12s methods are run-time translations.
#the translations in this SSS-domain, that is, this file script_strings*, are performed by /usr/sbin/fixscripts, which
#in turn is called from quicksetup (chooselocale) whenever locale is changed, also by rc.update whenever a version upgrade.
#the section-ids are a full path, for example _etc_rc.d_functions4puppy4 means /etc/rc.d/functions4puppy4
# ...i originally imposed this substitution for / as i thought there might be a problem with having / in the section-id
#    however, now i think not. anyway, fixscripts will accept any substitution, ex XetcXrc.dXfunctions4puppy4
#Please type translation only between the last two % characters.
#Keep all formatting exactly the same, that is retain all " ' < > / \ characters.
# -- do not replace the " and ' with left-side or right-side quote characters.
#Keep all variables as-is, exs: ${DROPOUT} $DROPOUT -- do not translate!

[_etc_rc.d_functions4puppy4]
#target file is /etc/rc.d/functions4puppy4
s%Only very old PCs may have a serial mouse. These are recognised by the fairly large rectangular plug, technically known as a DB9 or the even larger DB25 (where the 9 or 25 refers to the number of pins in the plug). Press the UP and DOWN arrow keys to choose your mouse type, then press the ENTER key:%Nur sehr alte PCs können noch eine serielle Mus haben. Diese erkennt man an dem ziemlich großen eckigen Stecker, technisch bekannt als DB9 oder den sogar größeren DB25 (wobei die 9 oder 25 der Anzahl Pins im Stecker entspricht). Maustyp mit den Pfeiltasten auswählen und dann mit Enter-Taste bestätigen:%
s%(mouse in very old computers)%(Maus in sehr altn Computern)%
s%(mouse or touchpad in all modern computers)%(Maus oder touchpad in allen modernen Computern)%
s%Please choose mouse type...%Bitte Maustyp wählen...%
s%Serial port mouse plugged into...\\nUse UP/DOWN ARROW keys, ENTER key to finish%Serielle Maus angeschlossen...\\nPfeiltasten benutzen und mit Enter-Taste abschließen%
s%(most likely)%(höchstwahrscheinlich)%

[_etc_rc.d_rc.sysinit]
s%"done"%fertig%
s%"failed"%nicht OK%
s%Loading swap partition $ONESWAP...%Lade Swap-Partition $ONESWAP...%
s%Loading swap file ${SWAPFILE}...%Lade Swap-Datei ${SWAPFILE}...%
s%Making the filesystem usable...%Mache das Dateisystem benutzbar...%
s%"Updating..."%Aktualisiere...%
s%Updating unique hostname...%Aktualisiere eindeutigen Hostname...%
s%Loading kernel modules...%Lade Kernel-Module...%
s%Waiting for modules to complete loading...%Warte bis Kernel-Module komplett geladen sind...%
s%Loading user-selected modules...%Lade benutzergewählte Module...%
s%Setting up services (network, printing, etc.)...%Einrichten der Dienste (Netzwerk, Drucken, etc.)...%
s%\[backgrounded\]%\[im Hintergrund\]%
s%Recognising media devices...%Erkennen der Speichermediengeräte...%

[_etc_rc.d_rc.update]
s%" cross-build-fix"%%
s%" network-drivers-list"%Netzwerktreiberliste%
s%" pixbuf-loaders"%%
s%" gtk-icon-cache"%%
s%" desk-icons"%%
s%" $OLDPVERSION to $NEWPVERSION"% $OLDPVERSION auf $NEWPVERSION"%
s%from version $OLDPVERSION to%von Version $OLDPVERSION auf%
s%Upgrading ${DISTRO_NAME} ${VERstr} ${NEWPVERSION}...%%
s%" network-drivers-list"%" Netzwerk-Treiber-Liste"%
s%layered-filesystem%geschichtetes Dateisystem%
s%next boot will be faster!%nächster Neustart wird schneller!%

[_etc_rc.d_rc.country]
s%Select the keyboard layout:\n(UP/DOWN arrows then ENTER key)%Tastaturbelegung auswählen:\n(Pfeiltasten dann Enter-Taste)%
s%Is the hardware clock on the computer set to the local time, or to UTC? Note, most PCs with Windows installed have the hardware clock set to the local time, so if in doubt choose that...%Ist die Hardware-Uhr im Computer auf lokale Zeit gestellt oder auf UTC? Beachte, die meisten PCs mit installiertem Windows haben die Hardware-uhr auf lokale Zeit gestellt, also: im Zweifelsfall das auswählen...%
s%Set hardware-clock type%Typ der Hardware-Uhr%
s%"Local"%"Lokal (Ortszeit)"%
s%"UTC"%"UTC (Universelle Zeit)"%

[_usr_local_petget_0setup]
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec 2013, 10:46    Post subject: Fatdog64-630rc1
Subject description: internationalisation tool
 

Here is the tool for internationalization of Fatdog.

momanager-20131206.pet uploaded only here because
- pets made by dir2pet in Fatdog cannot be installed in Puppy.
- number of Fatdog users who wish to translate (and can / have a 64 bit system) is unknown

If you want to use it for your language install basic langpack from puppy first.

Feedback appreciated.
Have fun

edit
Viewing the picture I have to add
Next improvement should be:
do not dispay every single script, just 1 for each textdomain is shorter and better
create_languagepackFatdog.png
 Description   
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create_languagepackFatdog.png

momanager-20131206.pet
Description  fit for Fatdog
pet

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Filename  momanager-20131206.pet 
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Sun 08 Dec 2013, 08:56    Post subject: Fatdog64-630
Subject description: example for t12s method of internationalization
 

example for t12s method of internationalization

/usr/sbin/set-time-for-puppy
Code:
#!/bin/sh
#2007 Lesser GPL licence v2 (http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/lgpl.html)
# A small script used to set the time under Linux with hwclock...
# MU: updated for puppy 1.0.7.
# jamesbond 2012 - add gtksu & other fixes
#131112 L18L internationalisation
#131208 t12s version

#export TEXTDOMAIN=fatdog
export OUTPUT_CHARSET=UTF-8
#. gettext.sh #131208
[ "$LC_MESSAGES" ] && LANG=$LC_MESSAGES # for --calendar and --timebox

app=`basename $0`
T=/usr/share/locales # TEXTDOMAINDIR
# a one-liner to find existing translation file LOCALES allowing 'dialects'
[ ! -f ${T}/${LANG%.*}/${app} ] && LOCALES=${T}/${LANG%_*}/${app} || LOCALES=${T}/${LANG%.*}/${app}
[ -f $LOCALES ] && . $LOCALES # (re)load translation file (when using variables)


# Title to be used for all Xdialog boxes.

#APPTITLE="$(gettext 'Set System Time')"
APPTITLE="${_M_1:-Set System Time}"
set
HWCLOCKPARM="--localtime" # default
HWCLOCKCONF=/etc/hwclock.conf
[ -e $HWCLOCKCONF ] && . $HWCLOCKCONF

[ $(id -u) -ne 0 ] && exec gtksu "$APPTITLE" "$0"

# Get the date (returned in DD/MM/YYYY format by Xdialog)
#! NEWDATE=`Xdialog --stdout --title "$APPTITLE" --calendar "$(gettext 'Please set the date...')" 0 0 0 0 0` && exit
! NEWDATE=`Xdialog --stdout --title "$APPTITLE" --calendar "${_M_2:-Please set the date...}" 0 0 0 0 0` && exit

# Get the time in HH:MM:SS format.
#if ! NEWTIME=`Xdialog --stdout --title "$APPTITLE" --timebox "$(gettext 'Please set the time...')" 0 0`; then
if ! NEWTIME=`Xdialog --stdout --title "$APPTITLE" --timebox "${_M_3:-Please set the date...}" 0 0`; then
#   Xdialog --title "$APPTITLE" --msgbox "$(gettext 'Aborted.')" 0 0
   Xdialog --title "$APPTITLE" --msgbox "${_M_4:-Aborted.}" 0 0
   exit
fi

# Set system time, then use system time to set the hardware clock (RTC)
OIFS=$IFS; IFS=/; set -- $NEWDATE
D=$1 M=$2 Y=$3

IFS=:; set -- $NEWTIME; IFS=$OIFS
H=$1$2
DT=$M$D$H$Y

date $DT
#Xdialog --title "$(gettext 'info')" --msgbox "$(gettext 'Your screen might turn black now for some seconds, just wait...')" 0 0
Xdialog --title "${_M_5:-info}" --msgbox "${_M_6:-Your screen might turn black now for some seconds, just wait...}" 0 0

hwclock --systohc $HWCLOCKPARM
THEDATE=`date`
#Xdialog --title "$(gettext 'info')" --msgbox "$(eval_gettext 'Finished. Time was set to $THEDATE')" 0 0

[ -f $LOCALES ] && . $LOCALES # (re)load translation file (when using variables)
Xdialog --title "${_M_5:-info}" --msgbox "${_M_7:-Finished. Time was set to $THEDATE}" 0 0


German translation in file /usr/share/locales/de/set-time-for-puppy:
Code:
_M_1="Datum und Uhrzeit"
_M_2="Bitte Datum einstellen..."
_M_3="Bitte Uhrzeit einstellen..."
_M_4="Abgebrochen."
_M_5="Info"
_M_6="Der Bildschirm kann jetzt für ein paar Sekunden schwarz werden, einfach abwarten..."
_M_7="Fertig. Zeit wurde auf $THEDATE gesetzt."


(This example has been "hand made" without yad GUI)

Faster? How much?

--------------------------------------------------

edit
...and translators would be happy if they had a pot file like:
Code:
#set-time-for-puppy.pot

#_M_1
msgid "Set System Time"
msgstr ""

#_M_2
msgid "Please set the date"
msgstr ""

#_M_3
msgid "Please set the time..."
msgstr ""

#_M_4
msgid "Aborted."
msgstr ""

#_M_5
msgid "info"
msgstr ""

#_M_6
msgid "Your screen might turn black now for some seconds, just wait..."
msgstr ""

#_M_7
msgid "Finished. Time was set to $THEDATE"
msgstr ""
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:36    Post subject: Re: Fatdog64-630
Subject description: example for t12s method of internationalization
 

L18L wrote:
...and translators would be happy if they had a pot file like:

Here is how we will be able to format the messages for t12s:
messages.
Code:
#set-time-for-puppy.po

#_M_1
msgid "Set System Time"
msgstr "Systemzeit einstellen"

#_M_2
msgid "Please set the date"
msgstr "Bitte Datum einstellen..."

#_M_3
msgid "Please set the time..."
msgstr "Bitte Uhrzeit einstellen..."

#_M_4
msgid "Aborted."
msgstr "Abgebrochen."

#_M_5
msgid "info"
msgstr "Info"

#_M_6
msgid "Your screen might turn black now for some seconds, just wait..."
msgstr "Der Bildschirm kann jetzt für ein paar Sekunden schwarz werden, einfach abwarten..."

#_M_7
msgid "Finished. Time was set to $THEDATE"
msgstr "Fertig. Zeit wurde auf $THEDATE gesetzt."


The formatting code
Code:
.#!/bin/sh
# t12s_msgfmt by L18L dec 2013, GPL
#
if [ -z "$1" ]; then echo "usage $0 file.po [> file]"; exit 1; fi
if [ $1 = "-h" -o $1 = "--help" ]; then echo "Convert portable object (po) file.po to translated messages for t12s"; exit 0; fi
if [ ! -f "$1" ]; then echo "$1 is not a file"; exit 1; fi

echo "#created `date` by $0 for script $1"
while read LINE; do
 case $LINE in
  \#_M_*) ID=${LINE:1} ;;
  msgstr*) echo "${ID}=${LINE#* }" ;;
 esac
done < $1

exit 0

The test run
Code:
# ./t12s_msgfmt set-time-for-puppy.po
#created Son Dez  8 16:42:09 CET 2013 by ./t12s_msgfmt for script set-time-for-puppy.po
_M_1="Systemzeit einstellen"
_M_2="Bitte Datum einstellen..."
_M_3="Bitte Uhrzeit einstellen..."
_M_4="Abgebrochen."
_M_5="Info"
_M_6="Der Bildschirm kann jetzt für ein paar Sekunden schwarz werden, einfach abwarten..."
_M_7="Fertig. Zeit wurde auf $THEDATE gesetzt."
#
#

And the run
Code:
# ./t12s_msgfmt set-time-for-puppy.po > /usr/share/locale/de/set-time-for-puppy
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christhi

Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013, 23:35    Post subject: Problem with kernel-source  

I gave a try at FatDog64 thinking it would work ok with my old AMD 64 Athlon tower.

I had to go through a lot of butthurt in order to do what's pretty much simple under Puppy 5.5. I had to download the huge Devx SFS, then the kernel-source SFS, that wasn't recognized by Getnvidia even it that was the correct version (3.11.4).

In other non-64 Puppies, did not require all this stuff to be installed for having the Nvidia drivers up and running. Why so complicated? Is it because of the specific kernel images for the AMD 64 hardware?

Perhaps the more stable versions of FatDog don't have these problems.

anyways.... some suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2330
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sat 14 Dec 2013, 00:41    Post subject:  

you are trying a RC1 that was highlighted above as a shortcoming. The release Kernel Version was expected to be bumped so the premade blobs for video drivers was not going to be done. Sorry, it is much easier normally.
I think a rumored 64bit Christmas gift is in the works. James and company do get very quiet before an announcement. Its been quiet almost dead on this thread, So your post got me all excited. .... darn not a early Christmas after all... Mad
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2505
Location: Burghaslach, Germany somewhere also known as "Hosla"

PostPosted: Sun 15 Dec 2013, 08:14    Post subject: Fatdog64-630rc1 (16 Oct 2013)
Subject description: internationalization
 

I am working at momanager being able to process t12s method.
Translator will see not much difference from gettext.

Just some bug fixing...
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 705
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 16 Dec 2013, 02:39    Post subject:  

Late to the party, but I tried 630 over the weekend. Was great, and bad...

I had to rip a DVD. I had used Saluki to do this task, took a couple of hours. Did the same DVD on the same PC in FD64-630RC1, took two minutes. I thought it was majorly broken, but worked fine.

I decided, this is awesome, time to upgrade to a new pup.

Rebooted machine, created save file. Will not reboot. It went to command prompt, tried xorgwizard, tried to change nvidia drivers, no dice.

Deleted save file, rebooted, worked fine. Created a new save file, with no additions (which I had before), rebooted, and no dice again. This time, I just gets to a screen with a "static" line across the top.

PC is AMD64 Athlon II 3.2Ghz, 8gig ram, Nvidia GT-210 booting manual frugal install.

What am I doing wrong?

BTW, I thought it was me, so I did the same install with 620, and it worked fine, with and without a save file.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 16 Dec 2013, 03:02    Post subject:  

p310don wrote:
Late to the party, but I tried 630 over the weekend. Was great, and bad...

I had to rip a DVD. I had used Saluki to do this task, took a couple of hours. Did the same DVD on the same PC in FD64-630RC1, took two minutes. I thought it was majorly broken, but worked fine.

I decided, this is awesome, time to upgrade to a new pup.

Rebooted machine, created save file. Will not reboot. It went to command prompt, tried xorgwizard, tried to change nvidia drivers, no dice.

Deleted save file, rebooted, worked fine. Created a new save file, with no additions (which I had before), rebooted, and no dice again. This time, I just gets to a screen with a "static" line across the top.

PC is AMD64 Athlon II 3.2Ghz, 8gig ram, Nvidia GT-210 booting manual frugal install.

What am I doing wrong?

BTW, I thought it was me, so I did the same install with 620, and it worked fine, with and without a save file.


As I remember one have to follow their instructions and
not do the save file like one are used to. First time one should
boot with noRAM somethign. Read their FAQ I am too lazy
Edit I thought first I was in a slacko thread and I created a save file
in that distro. Sorry for my mistake.

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2161
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 16 Dec 2013, 09:34    Post subject:  

Ted Dog wrote:
I think a rumored 64bit Christmas gift is in the works. James and company do get very quiet before an announcement. Its been quiet almost dead on this thread, So your post got me all excited. .... darn not a early Christmas after all... Mad
Laughing The reason why kirk and I have been quiet is because both of us are out of town at the moment with intermittent or slow internet access Very Happy and not much time left for Fatdog until we're back home.

p310don, if you open the Fatdog ISO file, you will find isolinux.cfg which contains many workarounds. You may try the ones relevant for nvidia. I think I've already included nouveau.noaccel=1 by default, if not, try that on the kernel parameter and see it improves the situation. If it doesn't work, then let's wait for rc2 - perhaps the newer kernel/nouveau driver has that issue fixed.

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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 705
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon 16 Dec 2013, 17:45    Post subject:  

Well played JB.

Putting

Code:
nouveau.noaccel=1


at the end of the kernel line in menu.lst for grub4dos worked for me.

Thanks
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