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jpeps
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#481 Post by jpeps »

wanderer wrote:The great thing about this system is you dont have to be a developer to be a developer
You don't have to be a developer to think you're a developer

jamesbond
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#482 Post by jamesbond »

jpeps wrote:
wanderer wrote:The great thing about this system is you dont have to be a developer to be a developer
You don't have to be a developer to think you're a developer
Well this is a hobby site. One doesn't need any qualifications to call oneself as a "developer". As long as one can work on something and the result can be used - first by oneself, and perhaps useful for others too - as far as the rest of the forum is concerned, one is a "developer".

I for one would raise thumbs up Image to wanderer. He walked (and is still walking) the talk when everyone was big on ideas but short on action. Whether the final product turns out to be a star or a dog, doesn't really matter. What is important is, he did it when no one else didn't. At least he tried.
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

jpeps
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#483 Post by jpeps »

jamesbond wrote:
jpeps wrote:
wanderer wrote:The great thing about this system is you dont have to be a developer to be a developer
You don't have to be a developer to think you're a developer
Well this is a hobby site. One doesn't need any qualifications to call oneself as a "developer". As long as one can work on something and the result can be used - first by oneself, and perhaps useful for others too - as far as the rest of the forum is concerned, one is a "developer".
Someone can call themselves anything they like. There's a difference between creating scripts and running them. I have no problem with everyone learning...it's what puppy is all about. Our major projects are generally led by a developer with lots of compiling and scripting abilities.Others join in to test.
Last edited by jpeps on Thu 05 Dec 2013, 17:36, edited 1 time in total.

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greengeek
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#484 Post by greengeek »

jamesbond wrote:Whether the final product turns out to be a star or a dog, doesn't really matter.
+ 100

jpeps
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#485 Post by jpeps »

greengeek wrote:
jamesbond wrote:Whether the final product turns out to be a star or a dog, doesn't really matter.
+ 100
Until distributing to the public, then it matters a lot.

wanderer
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#486 Post by wanderer »

i understand everyone's questions about the ce project
i have posted what i think the ce project is
and what i, and hopefully the ce-team are doing now, to make a ce iso

the real question for everyone is what they want the ce project to be
as i have said, if anyone wishes us to work on something
post your proposal

have fun

wanderer
Last edited by wanderer on Thu 05 Dec 2013, 23:11, edited 1 time in total.

wanderer
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#487 Post by wanderer »

hi everyone

Musher0 do you think you would want to use the raring iso as a test base for the newer computer ce iso.

I know i want to use 214x9 for the older computer ce test base. It runs perfectly on both my older desktop and my newer laptop. And the browser/media player combo is the best i've seen.

I am also looking into making a minimal base for ce from woof/woof-ce.

My motto is start out small and simple this makes it fast and flexible.

thanks everyone

wanderer

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RSH
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#488 Post by RSH »

jpeps wrote:
greengeek wrote:
jamesbond wrote:Whether the final product turns out to be a star or a dog, doesn't really matter.
+ 100
Until distributing to the public, then it matters a lot.
Exactly.

And this is exactly the reason, why I did decide NOT to publish a new LazY Puppy or what ever derivative ISO.

If you are publishing a Operating System, you are the one and only person responsible - even if you just did a remaster after just adding some apps plus a new wallpaper. At least you are responsible to collect everything needed (patches, .pet files, information etc.pp.) to get a user's (of your OS) problem solved. To send the user to the thread of the original Operating System used, doesn't seem to be really smart to me.

So, I must have to recognize: I can't do that. I'm NOT Barry Kauler, 01micko, playdayz, etc.pp. Maybe I could learn to do so, but I'm just too much interested by too much passion into too many other things.

I'm just RSH and I want to be responsible only for my private remasters and published applications on my future work in Puppy Linux.

Ok, back to this:
Volhout wrote:It must be me.... not understanding what a community edition (CE) is ??
Today I did return to this thread, because I did want to download a CE Puppy ISO. I remember me reading something of a CE1, CE2 and CE3 ISO but could not find one. So I did go directly to http://smokey01.com/wanderer/ - but found only a empty directory.

I wanted to download a CE ISO because of my SFS P.L.U.S. Development Kit, I'm currently working on. In the last days I did download and collect some different Puppy Operating Systems to do some testings of my SFS P.L.U.S. Development Kit while using different Puppies without installing anything or to create a personal storage file (save file).

Currently I have downloaded and/or tested:

DpupSqueeze5.3.6.2 - still to do testings
EliteOS1.1 - still to do testings
GuyDog5.0.1 - still to do testings
Lucid5.2.8 - successful
LxPup13.01 - successful
MacPup5.2.5 - successful
Obedient1 - successful
OVPrecise5.8 - successful
Precise5.7.1 - successful
Slacko5.3 - successful
Studio13.37 - successful
ThinSlacko5.5.01SCSI - successful
ThreeHeadedDog5.2.8 - successful
Wheezy3.5.2.8 - still to do testings

Wouldn't it had been nice to read here:

CE Puppy X - successful

? ? ?

In fact of there is currently no ISO to download, there is no testings possible by using a CE ISO.
RSH wrote:Hi.
Volhout wrote:It must be me.... not understanding what a community edition (CE) is ??
++1++
You are not the only one.
... ... ...
RSH
So, why I'm not understanding what a Community Edition Puppy is?

1. There is currently none existing
2. Edition means: to be edited, someone (here: the Community) has done some work on it
3. There is currently no work existing
4. Can't see any difference between a Community Edition Puppy or a Puppy that comes from a single developer, improved and fixed trough testings made by the community

As I do see it, each Puppy Linux -and its derivatives as well- is Community Edition - in a wider range. None of the existing Puppy Systems would have become what it actually is, without the extra work -and help also- of the community (downloading, testing, posting bugs and information, installing bug-fixes, posting results, doing suggestions and/or improvements etc.pp).

However: it needs a Developer of the OS. The one, who is doing the work, building the OS and presenting the ISO.

I would like to make a suggestion to you:

Instead of having CE1, CE2 and CE3 for NOT to download plus the general minimal ce iso and the at least the 2 versions (1 for newer and 1 for older computers) for NOT to download, which equals currently 6 (six) ISOs NOT to download, just do what I did and some others as well.

Decide what kind of a Puppy Linux OS YOU want to have; what Size, what Applications, what Screenshots etc.pp. and what Name to use for your Concept-Puppy.

Begin to work as close to your concept and publish this version for doing some testings. Wait for the results and/or suggestions and include everything into the OS, that will fit into the your conceptual work (and work-flow).

Talk is cheap. Show me the Code, Linus Torvald has had said.

I want to add: if you can't show some code, just do the work, you are able to do. Execute: learning by doing!

If you don't want to open a new thread for this your concept Puppy, just rename this here thread to: MyXXXPuppy - based on the Idea of a Community Puppy - and enter the new Start-Page to the sub-title.

I must say, I have already feared of this being just a new one of those threads that have come up lately. They are all almost just talk - of course, including huge posts with lots of useful ideas and suggestions. But that's it so far...

I wish, just 10 percent of the herein shown theoretical effort could have been converted to some practical effort maybe for those testings I've mentioned above about my SFS P.L.U.S. Development Kit (better saying its produced results) in different Puppies.
If so, I'm convinced, the above presented list of successful tested Puppies would be much longer - without forcing me to do a single reboot or downloading new Puppies just for doing a single test!

So: Good Luck! - or - Happy Talk!

Your decision!

RSH
[b][url=http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com]LazY Puppy[/url][/b]
[b][url=http://rshs-dna.weebly.com]RSH's DNA[/url][/b]
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ally
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#489 Post by ally »


wanderer
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#490 Post by wanderer »

ally

could you remove all of the old ce puppies. They are no longer relevant and will just confuse people.

thanks

wanderer
Last edited by wanderer on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 06:44, edited 1 time in total.

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RSH
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#491 Post by RSH »

Ok. Thanks. Now I do know that there are some ISOs.

But, this is just a reply to the ISOs I could not find. Anything else is somehow missed.

So, may I ask you directly, from member to member, user to user, avatar to avatar:

Would you like to do some testings to save me some download traffic, reboots and time needed for this - which I will rather include/spend to the SFS P.L.U.S. Development Kit?

If so, please download this .tar-gz file: Standalone-RunScript-RoxApp-Directory-Again-Updated-Version.tar.gz and extract it to ext partition/filesystem. Open up the extracted directory and execute a single left-click onto the RoxApp Directory - it has a right-click-menu for some functions as well.

Please do some testings in some fresh and clean squashfs4 puppies, different to the list above. Just to be save, do create directory Module on boot partition, when trying this on installed puppies. It will download to this directory (it might be created automatically, but can't remember at the moment).

Please, do test this also when booting from CD/DVD, and -if possible- when using a save file.

Please do test also with mounted and unmounted drives - it should mount the drive/s automatically.

Since you are the one with the most Puppy ISOs locally available, you could do some really needed work/tests to be done one a really useful tool and development kit to make almost everyone's Puppy Live a lot easier (in case of using additional applications), without having lots of download traffic and time to waste.

Even the Live of CE Puppy users!

Your decision, so: what do you think about this?

RSH
[b][url=http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com]LazY Puppy[/url][/b]
[b][url=http://rshs-dna.weebly.com]RSH's DNA[/url][/b]
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91422][b]SARA B.[/b][/url]

musher0
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#492 Post by musher0 »

Hello, wanderer and all.

RSH wrote, a few messages up:
> 4. Can't see any difference between a Community Edition Puppy or a Puppy that
comes from a single developer, improved and fixed trough testings made by the
community
.

At this point, I have to agree. And I'd like to add: "by the community at large."

To answer wanderer's previous question: no, I'm not going to remaster pemasu's
UpupRaring into a community edition. It's fine as it is!

You don't do a community edition for the sake of doing a community edition.
Well, I could find a nice hockey logo and put it on a Puppy version, and say
"This is the Gatineau Olympiques Puppy". But it would still be Puppy version
so-and-so, only with a marketing or branding label on it.

The community does something on its own to fill a need. A community opens a co-
operative store because the major corporations are too cheap to open a branch in
that community. Do you see my point? Otherwise, it is just hot air.
  • "If there is a genuine need, it will be met." (Henry Miller)
By golly, a new Puppy is published every week! So there is no genuine need...
and also given that any Puppy is easy to adapt individually by the average user.
  • Show me a solid need to do it,
    present me with a solid leadership structure (preferably co-op: one person,
    __ one vote; there have been enough tyrants in history!),
    give me a coherent follow-up logic (to tag the changes).
And then weigh that with the immense effort (it is little known, but some project
managers for Puppy versions have come a nanometer away from nervous
breakdown: creating and maintaining a new Puppy version is very demanding, for
only a tiny bit of fame, and no money, in return). Hmm...

It remains a tempting idea, that is: an idea with, in it, a temptation you have to
resist. ;) Something like, at the school party, the unknown girl that is too pretty...! ;)

Sorry to rain on your parade, wanderer... (No reflection on you personally, BTW.)

musher0
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

musher0
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#493 Post by musher0 »

wanderer wrote:ally

could you remove all of the old ce puppies. They are no longer relevant and will just confuse people.

thanks

wanderer
Ally, at least keep also CE-3? If my disk goes to the land of lost bytes, I'll know where to find a copy. Thank you.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

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saintless
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#494 Post by saintless »

I don't like to quote my self but it seems to be the right moment to remind you one more time.
Puppy linux has a need of universal and large package manager. I don't think anyone is happy to adapt packages from one puppy versions to another and to do tricks to make them work.
What is the different what will be the base core if it looks and feel like puppy and has perfect packet manager? What will make it more puppy than puppy community work?
Now I have 37 Mb base without Xorg. Think about and if you decide to do it, I'm ready to help all the way.

Cheers, Toni
What do you think about another way to go - take clean debian Squeezy live standard CD and clean it up from 150 to about 50 Mb (Forget about Wheezy - it is much much RAM hungry). Just command line tools and working apt-get.
Replace the kernel with newer one as an option or don't.
Include then xserver-xorg-core, xinit, jwm, xfe or rox. The size will grow up to 75-80 Mb. Patch the kernel and install squashfs-tools 4.x with LZMA compression. It will compress the sfs file more. Then include puppy applications like pmount, pburn, etc... Modify puppy scripts and pets to work on it without breaking dpkg database. Make it look like regular puppy with minimal set of apps and let the rest to be added by apt-get from the user.

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#495 Post by Iguleder »

saintless wrote:
(Forget about Wheezy - it is much much RAM hungry).
Forget about good hardware support and modern applications. :?
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saintless
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#496 Post by saintless »

Iguleder wrote:
saintless wrote:
(Forget about Wheezy - it is much much RAM hungry).
Forget about good hardware support and modern applications. :?
I'm starting to agree about the modern applications. It might worth the RAM usage. If someone can manage to reduce 500 Mb and more to acceptable base I agree for Wheezy.
What do you think about Squeeze with kernel 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae at start point 37Mb? Is it good enough hardware support? It can be made 64 bit.

Cheers, Toni

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Community Edition

#497 Post by Volhout »

The problem I see in the way this project is going is in the approach that is taken.

In puppy land there are a lot of iso's. These puppies (a collection of programs running on a kernell and drivers) are tested and debugged.

If you base a CE version on one of these iso's you get a complete tested and more or less stable set of software.... that you tear appart, and use as a base to create something new. But by doing so, you also tear appart it's quality, stability and functionality.

A good example is: "we are using 214x9 becuase it runs better on my PC than 214x10". I make one promise: if you tear appart 214x9 you will end up with something just as instable as 214x10. Technosaurus spend a lot of time on making these versions. You better taken 214x10 and fix the problem (before-or-after the tearing appart).

In my opinion ... you pick a base ... and start working. Suitible for older or newer computer.... don't make the scope to big by combining a 2.4 kernell (214x) with a 3.10 kernel (Slacko 64 bit). Pick one , and work your way through the stuff. Set a single goal... it will be enough work.

It seems 01micko has gained some leverage (click on the link in his signature) Please start helping him. Leave 214x for what it is (sorry Technosaurus).

One final remark: I would re-define "old computer".

According to Microsoft, 44% of the worlds microsoft installed PC's is still running XP. That means that 44% of PC's has below 4gbytes of RAM, typical 1Gbyte) and has a P4 type processor. I would consider that your new "OLD PC". And not the PC that was already old when puppy was launched 10 years ago. Those newer OLD PC's can never be converted to W7 or W8, cannot be re-installed with XP(*), and these guys need linux between now and 2 years, or ... buy new pc's.

Volhout.

(*) believe me, I tried.... The original install on the restore partition was XP SP 1, and you can NOT get XP re-installed in a controlled way via update manager since it will not work with the IE6 in that image. Only thing you can do is manually install SP3 and IE8, but there is still no way to install all the missing diarea of updates. After 2 nights of frustration I installed LXLE (Lubuntu 12.04LTS with Libreoffice + more in one iso) and was up and running in 17 minutes (for that particular friend, puppy would not have offered the convenience he needs since puppy currently, despite the effort developers do, for single click installs that work on a variety of programs. There is always the tiny "missing this lib" that can be fixed ... but not by him, and preferably not every week .... by me.
Of coarse there are sufficient iso's and keygens available if you want illegal XP stuff.

jpeps
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#498 Post by jpeps »

Iguleder wrote:
saintless wrote:
(Forget about Wheezy - it is much much RAM hungry).
Forget about good hardware support and modern applications. :?

ThinkGeek.com Cheap and power efficient. Forget about repositories

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f151/? ... fgodmHkAIw

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#499 Post by saintless »

jpeps wrote:ThinkGeek.com Cheap and power efficient. Forget about repositories

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f151/? ... fgodmHkAIw
Yes, puppy repositories are much better than the squeeze one. And most of the kernels are above 3...
Where was my mind?

darry1966

Old hardware Base

#500 Post by darry1966 »

For old Hardware I think the updated 4.31 - 4.32v3 would be better than 2.14X it has a later Xorg and surely with a little work can be updated a little or the lovely Lucid 525 retro. 214X just doesn't work for me.

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