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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.6!
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5233
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov 2013, 21:03    Post_subject:  

Precise is new dog in Puppy kennels. Developed to support the newest hardware. Newest Linux kernel, etc... However being so new it is not fully bug fixed and tested.
Does implement newest changes to Puppy core programs.

Lucid Puppy has been developed over the past 3 years and been tested to the max.
Closes thing to a long term support version of Puppy.
Tries to stay updated to the newest changes to Puppy core programs that work.
Has had very good support from everyone, in trying to make it 100% bug free.
Has good software support.
Generally supports a large range of hardware from very old to very new.
Supporting the very new is the biggest issue, but newer versions of Puppy do that.

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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2127
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2013, 06:40    Post_subject: Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.6!  

Manual frugal install to an 8gb SDHC card, computer is an AAO 721-3801
netbook.
video-info-glx 1.5.3 Thu 28 Nov 2013 on Lucid 528 Linux 2.6.33.2 i686
5.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M880G [Mobility Radeon HD 4200]
oem: ATI ATOMBIOS
product: RS880M 01.00

X Server: Xorg Driver: fglrx
X.Org version: 1.7.6
dimensions: 1024x600 pixels (270x158 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes

direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: ATI
server glx version string: 1.4
OpenGL vendor string: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4200 Series
OpenGL version string: 3.3.11672 Compatibility Profile Context

AMD Athlon(tm) II Neo K125 Processor
Core 0: @1695 MHz

Network controllerBroadcom Corporation BCM43225 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)

The network setup with SNS,sound is working.
I compiled the amd-driver-installer-catalyst-13.1-legacy-linux-x86.x86_64.run
proprietary driver after installing the xorg hi driver in quickpet.

5.2.8.6 is working great so far.
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2127
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2013, 11:15    Post_subject: Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.6!  

Manual frugal install to a 4gb flash drive, computer is an hp desktop.

video-info-glx 1.5.3 Thu 28 Nov 2013 on Lucid 528 Linux 2.6.33.2 i686
0.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV530 [Radeon X1600]
oem: ATI ATOMBIOS
product: RV530 01.00

X Server: Xorg Driver: radeon
X.Org version: 1.7.6
dimensions: 1920x1080 pixels (507x285 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes

direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
OpenGL vendor string: DRI R300 Project
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI R300 (RV530 71C2) 20090101 AGP 4x x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE2 TCL
OpenGL version string: 1.5 Mesa 7.7.1

AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3300+
Core 0: @2410 MHz

Multimedia audio controller
Creative Labs CA0106 Soundblaster

Ethernet controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet (rev 90)

I installed xorg hi from quickpet.
Also installed Ratpoison window manager.

5.2.8.6 is working well on this pc.
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:39    Post_subject:  

Quote:
remasters, which is how playdayz, as I understand, maintained lupu.

Lucid was built with Woof from 5.0 to 5.2.8. Then 001-005 were done with rerwin's excellent remasterpup2 program.

The version number basically showed the Puppy's place in the development of Woof. The last official Lucid was 5.2.8 because it was to be supplanted by Slacko which debuted at 5.3. I do not think that version number should be changed unless Lucid was to be substantially revamped, such that, for instance, the basic libraries would be updated so that lucid could run the latest browsers without errors; as it is it is limited to Firefox and Seamonkey. But that would be a huge amount of work, recompiling all the libraries, and then retesting everything--it would be as much work as the original development. The the lucid Lynx programs would be out of date anyway. But with that much trouble why not start from scratch--in fact, starting from scratch would be easier.

Lucid was great, and rerwin's update provides a treat and some continued lifespan for Lucid. But the reason Lucid was great was all the testing it received--look back, there were about 100 pages or more of forum pages for *each* version of Lucid.

One thing that was different at the time of the development of Lucid was that everyone in the Puppy community participated in testing. All of the puplets and derivatives are fabulous, but IMHO there ought to be one Puppy that gets the full treatment--testing by everyone. And that Puppy ought to be the one that newcomers to Puppy should try first. I notice that Slacko is beginning the development cycle for 5.7. It already has the latest programs and the latest libraries and I urge everyone to get over there and test the hell out of it. Find any bugs and hardware incompatibilities now, run up 100 pages of testing, and make 01micko work for his money!!!

Quote:
I'm sure more knowledgeable people than I can just compare the version descriptions, but I'd love even just two sentences on what makes one version of Puppy preferred over another .

The main difference IMHO is that some rare (and some new) hardware will run in some Puppies and not in others--also some new software, particularly "hi-spec browsers" will not run in older Puppies. Other than that, again IMHO, 99% of the difference is mainly design choices in the GUI by the person who built the Puppy--not to say that those are not important to the user experience. You want the new browsers, try the Puppy I mentioned that is just beginning 5.7 development--and have your own input into how it works for you--that's much of the fun. Precise is a special case, IMHO (how many times can I say that in one paragraph) someone needs to adopt it and do what I did in the development of Lucid, and what 01micko has done with Slacko. It is extremely hard work.

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8344

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2013, 12:49    Post_subject:  

Was... I have yet to move up to lucid for day to day use ...its just sat ready for the day Very Happy.
And I remember having to fix some of those woof bugs too...my sympathies. I was making a custom 525 at the time.

Its normal in the software world to have a stable version...only here are beginners offered the beta releases primarily.... one reason this forum is so busy. Its also nice to build for a stable release too...less to deal with and your produce will generally be good for the newest kids in the block too.

Never got this new hardware = new kernel thing.... drivers can usually be built on a wide range of kernel versions.

Anyway if not for Lucid I would have probably would have strayed a long time ago... so i hold you all responsible.

mike
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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2013, 15:27    Post_subject: Re: Lucid Puppy Revitalized as 5.2.8.6!
Sub_title: Lupu-528-005 upgraded with recent versions of many components.
 

[quote="rerwin"
To manage the cases where a pet package has been installed and becomes part of a later upgrade of lupu, after replacement of the main files in a frugal installation and subsequent boot-up, a check is made for packages now included in the main (lupu_528) file. If a conflict is found, a (pop-up) recommendation is made to uninstall the conflicting package, so as to utilize the new version in lupu.
{/quote]

I have made a SFS package for CAD that works with what I downloaded as 5.2.8.006. There are a couple of issues you may be able to help me with:

1) The SFS needs to bring along some libraries and I need to run ldconfig before they are seen. There is no ldconfig in the base system so I have to bring along my own. This seems slightly dangerous as it may conflict with the devxxx.sfs. Do you know of a good way to deal with this?

2) The SFS currently brings along a "default" design so that there is an example. I worry that if I make a upgraded version it may result in trouble,

Any advice?
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2013, 15:51    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Any advice?

Why not doing the following?:

Grab the ldconfig binary from the devx and put it into the SFS Module. Add a /root/Startup/ldconfig-execute-script - sfs_load will run this after loading the SFS Module.

For the use in different Puppies one can modify the /root/Startup/ldconfig-execute-script for the use of $DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX in /etc/DISTRO_SPECS and renaming such different ldconfig binaries like ldconfig_lupu, ldconfig_precise etc.pp.

Once setup it should work without any problem or getting in conflict with any Puppy's devx.

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2013, 16:09    Post_subject:  

Quote:
drivers can usually be built on a wide range of kernel versions.

Yes mikeb, tempestuous built quite a few drivers for Lucid which are all in 5.2.8.6 (and were in Lucid Plus 5.2.8.005). I hope no one thinks I am criticizing Lucid--I use it myself still on the machines I used to develop it, though it does bug me that current browser choice is limited. It feels very good that people still find it worthwhile. And what rerwin has done is great. My point is that much of the goodness of Lucid was because it was the *One Official* Puppy and got all the testing and development attention--so tempestuous could build all those drivers, etc. If we want another Lucid we have got to test as much as we did then, that's all. I commit myself to testing Slacko 5.7.

BTW, you mention "stable" and I have found that Debian Wheezy 7.2 works very well, as does pemasu's dpup now built on 7.2 wheezy binaries.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8344

PostPosted: Thu 28 Nov 2013, 16:24    Post_subject:  

Choice is always limited when dealing with this weeks incarnations.... I have a huge choice of browsers if I do not constrain myself with paranoia or gimmick chasing Very Happy

Hmm stable as in whose binary sources or stable as in puppy configuration or stable as in good support.... the definition gets a bit hazy for me here. I and others can see the effort that has been put into Lucid and its still continuing and that to me made this a quality release...credit where credit is due.

Anyway I don't want to distract this thread just wanted to pop in my 10cents worth.

mike
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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2013, 12:16    Post_subject:  

RSH wrote:
Quote:
Any advice?

Why not doing the following?:

So may answer that with "because I'm stupid"

This next bit is really obvious (now) but I do have a question I will put on the end:

Quote:

Grab the ldconfig binary from the devx and put it into the SFS Module. Add a /root/Startup/ldconfig-execute-script - sfs_load will run this after loading the SFS Module.

For the use in different Puppies one can modify the /root/Startup/ldconfig-execute-script for the use of $DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX in /etc/DISTRO_SPECS and renaming such different ldconfig binaries like ldconfig_lupu, ldconfig_precise etc.pp.

Once setup it should work without any problem or getting in conflict with any Puppy's devx.


My current plan is to put the ldconfig into some directory like:
Code:

/root/kicad

I then can do a "which ldconfig" and us it only if there isn't one in the normal path. This does mean, however, that I either have to as you suggest put in an ldconfig per version of puppy or hope that the one from 528 won't mung a different distro. What are the odds of munging?
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2013, 18:14    Post_subject:  

Quote:
So may answer that with "because I'm stupid"

Oh, no.

I'm sorry, but I did not wrote it and also I did not meant it.

It was also not intended to give such impression etc.pp.

Quote:
My current plan is to put the ldconfig into some directory like:
Code:


/root/kicad


I then can do a "which ldconfig" and us it only if there isn't one in the normal path. This does mean, however, that I either have to as you suggest put in an ldconfig per version of puppy or hope that the one from 528 won't mung a different distro. What are the odds of munging?

Sorry. Never ever heard the word "munging".

I think I've got a better idea - much smarter I think.

Build yourself a dependent SFS Module. Into this SFS Module put in all ldconfig binaries of your puppies. Each into a unique directory or renamed to a unique name.

The /root/Startup/ldconfig-execute-script should now be used to get the $DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX and $DISTRO_VERSION of the running puppy and to load the dependent SFS Module by sfs_load in cli mode:

Code:
sfs_load --cli --skip-fixmenus --quiet "Dependent_SFS_Module_Here"


Now executing the needed ldconfig and immediately unloading the Dependent_SFS_Module

Code:
sfs_load --unload --cli --skip-fixmenus --quiet "Dependent_SFS_Module_Here"


No extra binaries needed inside the Main SFS Module (Main = the one to load, not the puppy's one). Easily usable in different puppies just by the /root/Startup/ldconfig-execute-script in the Main SFS Module (Main = the one to load, not the puppy's one).

No GUIs to click out of the way (when the dependent SFS Module is stored at boot partition or boot directory (PSUBDIR).

Btw: I'm using something similar in my SFS P.L.U.S. Kit. Each SFS Module knows its dependent SFS Module (like Java, Python etc.) and it loads automatically after its main SFS Module is loaded and before the application is executed.

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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2013, 18:46    Post_subject:  

RSH wrote:
Quote:
So may answer that with "because I'm stupid"

Oh, no.

Don't fret it is just me being silly


Quote:

Sorry. Never ever heard the word "munging".


The verb mung is an acronym for "Mung Until No Good". It is an old computer science term that is used in place of "F%$K It up totally" in polite circles.

Quote:

I think I've got a better idea - much smarter I think.

I think I may have an even smarter smarter idea

Quote:

Build yourself a dependent SFS Module. Into this SFS Module put in all ldconfig binaries of your puppies. Each into a unique directory or renamed to a unique name.

At this step, basically the same but make the directories within the SFS named /thing/stuff/morepath/$DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX/$DISTRO_VERSION

Quote:

The /root/Startup/ldconfig-execute-script should now be used to get the $DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX and $DISTRO_VERSION of the running puppy and to load the dependent SFS Module by sfs_load in cli mode:

Code:
sfs_load --cli --skip-fixmenus --quiet "Dependent_SFS_Module_Here"



Instead why not mount the SFS via a loopback use the ldconfig and then dismount. It never needs to be pulled into the normal file system just to run it once at start up.
Quote:


Now executing the needed ldconfig and immediately unloading the Dependent_SFS_Module

Code:
sfs_load --unload --cli --skip-fixmenus --quiet "Dependent_SFS_Module_Here"


No extra binaries needed inside the Main SFS Module (Main = the one to load, not the puppy's one). Easily usable in different puppies just by the /root/Startup/ldconfig-execute-script in the Main SFS Module (Main = the one to load, not the puppy's one).

No GUIs to click out of the way (when the dependent SFS Module is stored at boot partition or boot directory (PSUBDIR).

Btw: I'm using something similar in my SFS P.L.U.S. Kit. Each SFS Module knows its dependent SFS Module (like Java, Python etc.) and it loads automatically after its main SFS Module is loaded and before the application is executed.
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2013, 20:14    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I think I may have an even smarter smarter idea

That's how things usually do evolve. Laughing

Quote:
Instead why not mount the SFS via a loopback use the ldconfig and then dismount. It never needs to be pulled into the normal file system just to run it once at start up.

That's just where the expert is split from the newbie. Wink

A hint, though: what about a temp file to be created after it has been executed once (to avoid re-running/-loading when just X is restarted for another reason)?

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov 2013, 21:28    Post_subject: Re: Libralies come with an extra SFS  

Moose On The Loose wrote:
1) The SFS needs to bring along some libraries and I need to run ldconfig before they are seen. There is no ldconfig in the base system so I have to bring along my own. This seems slightly dangerous as it may conflict with the devxxx.sfs. Do you know of a good way to deal with this?

If the libraries confrict with the main SFS, I think running ldconfig is not a good idea. How to repair the links when the extra SFS is unloaded?

A better way is to place all the things under an optional directory, say /opt/kicad, /opt/kicad/bin, /opt/kicad/lib.
And make a wrapper script /usr/bin/kicad:
Code:
#!/bin/sh
PREFIX=/opt/kicad
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$PREFIX/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH"
exec $PREFIX/bin/kicad "$@"

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8344

PostPosted: Sat 30 Nov 2013, 07:33    Post_subject:  

Is this the same sfs where the defaultbrowser file does not show?
Is the problem you have libraries that do not show as well as I cannot recall a time when I had to run ldconfig with an application sfs.... only time I have seen it was with slax loading its dev file but that's understandable...at least the sfs load script they have detects when ldconfig is needed in some way I have not looked into.

mike
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