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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
A vote for a modular use of Puppy Linux
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4779
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Thu 14 Nov 2013, 21:06    Post_subject: SFS-Load on-the-fly  

If the user's Puppy has SFS-Load on-the-fly, then all s/he has to do is to load a program's sfs to use that program. Will additional scripts be needed at all?

Or, is there a more important result achieved through the scripts?

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8367

PostPosted: Thu 14 Nov 2013, 21:16    Post_subject:  

Loaded at boot sfs files placed with the main sfs...no configs to setup.
A folder of optional ones to get loaded with a right click.

Inspired by the simplicity of slax all this works with a few lines over the basics needed to use just a pup_xxx.sfs and a save system.

That's it...nothing more...the rest is just standard linux.

Modular 'should' be simple... that's the main reason for doing it that way in my book.

Module creation is compressing a file tree....manually or the odd 2 line script. .... my slobby engineering nature brought me to this point Very Happy

mike

simultaneous posts....
Quote:

Or, is there a more important result achieved through the scripts?

for standard pups there is the problem of upside down layering so scripting is needed to bring out the hidden files.... otherwise there would be nothing to do apart for perhaps refreshing the menu.
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 14:23    Post_subject:  

sunburnt wrote:
Main interface is the ScriptBox right-click menu that`s a modded Rox menu.
There are tons of scripts, so lots of installed infrastructure and complexity.

# Thoughts: I agree with amigo that simple is the only way to go...
Modularity as a concept is great. But any added complexity is a heavy toll.

An AppDir package is self-contained and no-install = little infrastructure.
SFS files are no install ( sort of...), but need a union = added infrastructure.

An app menu for both SFS and AppDir would handle both transparently.
There`s no need that the user ever know that there`s a difference.
.

Yes, any added complexity is a heavy toll, but as I've stated before, RSHs-ScriptBox has only find its place in the Modularity Package, to give any testers an easy way of start and testing.

RSHs-ScriptBox is NOT a part of the Modularity Concept!

The Modularity Concept is SFS Module based!

The RoxApps -like the RSHs-ScriptBox- are just an addition to show, how such can be put together and how easy it will work.

Meanwhile i have reached some PMs, but I don't have the time to reply to any at the Moment. Will do it later - sorry, but I'm really busy.

---

However, to make you all more able to understand, what I am doing, do test the attached.tar.gz. It contains a StandAlone-RoxApp-directory, named: LP2_JWildFire-1.01.sfs.Scripts, which you can store where ever you want, as long as the location can handle linux-type symbolic links.

Nothing, absolutely nothing of the Modularity Package is needed to run this and to include this into a Operating System - so, please get it all out of the way for testings.

Please do some testings in a fresh and clean puppy. Do not forget to create directory Module on boot partition, when trying this on installed puppies. it will still download to this directory.

Please, do test this also by booting from CD. If you will have already downloaded LP2_JWildFire-1.01.sfs, move it , so that it can't be found.
It will (should) download the LP2_jre-1.7u13-i586.sfs as well, which is the dependent SFS Module of LP2_JWildFire-1.01.sfs.

When testing this from CD booting, first open the directory LP2_JWildFire-1.01.sfs.Scripts and go to its hidden .data directory. There is a empty file: download_dir_temp, open this in a text editor and insert a drive, where to store the downloaded SFS Module.

Note: insert just the drives name (e.g. sdd1), no /mnt and no further directory name. It will create automatically its download directory by using the DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX in its name.

If you don't insert any drive to this file, the SFS Module will download to /tmp into a sub directory by using the DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX in its name.

After first use, this file download_dir_temp is copied to /tmp and after this each time executing such a StandAlone-RunScript-RoxApp-Dir will read this file out. So, after a first go, you need to edit the /tmp/download_dir_temp because it will not be overwritten if existing in /tmp.

Please do test both variants when using this from CD. Currently I can not make tests on this download feature, so I need your test results.

Please do test also with mounted and unmounted drives - it should mount the drive/s automatically.

When I'm publishing the Modularity Concept (SFS P.L.U.S.), such StandAlone-RunScript-RoxApp-Dir would be the only thing that any OS developer would have to provide for the OS.

Ok, that's all for now. hopefully I did not forget anything to mention and some successful test results will return.

I'm back on duty...

RSH

P.S.

A PM wrote (can't resist to quote this PM):
Quote:
Hi RSH Very Happy
OK HOLLY S#@T ! I just did a fresh frugal install of precise 5.7.1 and added your Modularity Package Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
I am at a loss for words right now ! I don't know alot about how everything works yet but I am rubbing my eyes trying to take it all in Laughing Very very nice work ! I will be sure to post on it soon after i am done collecting myself !
I dont know yet how much I like it but you definitely have my attention !
Well done ! Wink


Edit, 2013-11-25, 21:25 GMT+1:

Attachment removed, upload of a improved version will follow and be posted on page 8.

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8367

PostPosted: Fri 15 Nov 2013, 15:01    Post_subject:  

Ok downloaded it, tried it but no sfs obtained perhaps the lack of DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX would be the reason.... something easily hacked or is there more to it?

my-roxapps was about the first thing I removed from puppy many years ago so the sight of a huge pile of them made me a little wary (no pun intended)
If its just for demonstrating sfs usage then a misunderstanding has occured.

mike

ok gave DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX a value in the script but still no joy. Sad any other puppy version dependant variables ?
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partsman

Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 257
Location: OHIO,USA

PostPosted: Sat 16 Nov 2013, 14:39    Post_subject:  

Hello all Wink
Ok i have precise 5.7.1 frugal installed on an ext4 partition on my hard drive with modular package installed ! So far so good Wink Been using a couple of days no no problems ! I must say i am amazed with this and the fact that i dont have the worry of a save file is awesome ! Very nice work RSH Wink So just to clarify the use of sfs files and RSH script box are not the modular idea here "just a little extra bonus" am i right ?
This is very impressive ! As i read back through this thread RSH is right ! Alot of problems with apps not working etc. pertain to the save file ! I know just from my own experience that i have on more than 1 occasion accidentally deleted my save file Crying or Very sad
@RSH : Its hard to embrace change ! Its a human thing ! But the more you use it the more comfortable you become Wink
Remember the first time you used puppy ? It was all new then ! But you learned to use it ! RSH's modularity concept is no different Wink

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8367

PostPosted: Sat 16 Nov 2013, 15:56    Post_subject:  

Been doing the modular boogie since 2009 using nimblex and then applied the principles to puppy, and also no save files so no convincing needed here.

Wondering about a gathering of scripts for sfs making... deb2sfs, rpm2sfs and so on ...many exist but perhaps there are a few gaps.

mike
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5037
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat 16 Nov 2013, 17:42    Post_subject:  

Took a look at Nimblex, too bad they`re not up to date. But nice web site and it seems they`re competent.

What a shame that Puppy has so little of this. It`s even hard to tell how cohesive Puppy is.
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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8367

PostPosted: Sat 16 Nov 2013, 19:32    Post_subject:  

Well Nimblex was quite a nice attempt at a more desktop friendly version of SLAX. I even used their kde modules on puppy which worked quite well but going the other way and puppyfying it made more sense in the end.... even if the word does not...anyway I digress and there's a longer story not for here

mike
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inoxidabile


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun 17 Nov 2013, 12:13    Post_subject:  

Hi everybody!
Sorry, just a little question... Trying Lazy as live from usb.

Clicking on the top bar for internet it says that there isn't sfs for firefox.
Then it asks for download it, after accept this the download starts (from smokey01) and then it seems ok.
But after good download a message appears, saying that it isn't ok.

Then, with Puppy package manager I select firefox and in this way everything runs fine.
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partsman

Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 257
Location: OHIO,USA

PostPosted: Sun 17 Nov 2013, 13:04    Post_subject:  

inoxidabile wrote:
Hi everybody!
Sorry, just a little question... Trying Lazy as live from usb.

Clicking on the top bar for internet it says that there isn't sfs for firefox.
Then it asks for download it, after accept this the download starts (from smokey01) and then it seems ok.
But after good download a message appears, saying that it isn't ok.

Then, with Puppy package manager I select firefox and in this way everything runs fine.

This kinda makes it sound like you have installed lazy puppy !
please read this and follow the instructions here Wink
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=736139#736139
Or maybe i miss understand you ? Embarassed

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partsman

Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 257
Location: OHIO,USA

PostPosted: Sun 17 Nov 2013, 13:17    Post_subject:  

@RSH
I tried the StandAlone-RunScript-RoxApp-Dir.tar.gz
Very impressive Very Happy

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inoxidabile


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun 17 Nov 2013, 14:59    Post_subject:  

partsman wrote:
inoxidabile wrote:
Hi everybody!
Sorry, just a little question... Trying Lazy as live from usb.

Clicking on the top bar for internet it says that there isn't sfs for firefox.
Then it asks for download it, after accept this the download starts (from smokey01) and then it seems ok.
But after good download a message appears, saying that it isn't ok.

Then, with Puppy package manager I select firefox and in this way everything runs fine.

This kinda makes it sound like you have installed lazy puppy !
please read this and follow the instructions here Wink
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=736139#736139
Or maybe i miss understand you ? Embarassed


I apologize, maybe I explained it in a bad way Embarassed
I had Lazy on usb mem stick (2 gig), using unetbootin.
Then I run it as live only and nothing more.
One more point: after the install of firefox (using puppy package manager Smile ) at shutdown it says "session not saved" but this is obvious, I didn't anything more than a quick try as live.
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partsman

Joined: 06 Jun 2012
Posts: 257
Location: OHIO,USA

PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2013, 13:14    Post_subject:  

Hi all
Something that came to mind :
What happens if the file system on the partition becomes corrupt ?
like say xorg fails to start etc. booting in ram is not an option not sure about pfix=purge etc.

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8367

PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2013, 13:49    Post_subject:  

If a partition becomes corrupted there will be more to deal with than the odd stubborn xorg.
No system is going to deal with hardware failure apart from keeping backups.

Pupsave failures on the other hand are software/system related which is why they tend to affect the same areas...eg xorg, desktop items. You are dealing with a writable file system encompassed in a writable filesystem which is not cleanly unmounted plus its doubly prone to power outage/bad shutdown problems too especially if a non journalled filesystem is utilised. Having no save or a sfs save system avoids those kinds of corruption leaving only the host partition health to deal with. The sfs save also gives a nice tidy file to keep as a backup.

mike
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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2261

PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2013, 14:45    Post_subject:  

A normal linux system boots with / read-only so that even the rootdisk can be fscked before mounting read-write and continuing with init. If you have /boot on a separate partition, then it can also be fscked without problems and by only mounting read-write when needed it remains sane.
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