A vote for a modular use of Puppy Linux

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mikeslr
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Modular Puppy --great thread, plus some thoughts

#81 Post by mikeslr »

Hi RSH, mikeb, sunburnt & All,

Informative and IMHO important thread. I am happy to observe a spirit of inquiry and co-operation and hope it carries forward when it become necessary to create, in Barry K's absence, the next Pup.
And a special thanks to RSH for the links on the second post of this thread.
It is not my purpose to derail this thread, so if the following appears to be outside of RSH's interest please feel free to disregard it. However, I believe it is relevant both to question of modularity and the broader issue of design gcmartin raised.
I recall reading somewhere that RSH discovered RoxApps while creating his Puplet and realized their general utility for inclusion in other Pups. In a similar vein, I stumbled across what playdaz had referred to as Program Folders –he's since decided he didn't like that name, but I can't think of anything better-- and realized their general utility as alternatives to pets and SFSes. A Program Folder is an application together with all necessary libs and config files etc. contained in a folder EXTERNAL to Puppy: it can be anywhere, on any medium –CD/DVD's might have to be RW or Multiboot-- your computer has access to, linked to your operating system only by a couple kilobyte script which calls the application's executable. What can be more modular than that?
My experiments revealed that Program Folders more frugally --by as much as 45%-- utilize a computer's resources with the exception of storage. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=84457 than either pets or SFSes. I appreciate that each time I post something about Program Folders I arouse suspicions concerning pathological preoccupation or trolling. But with the cost (on ebay) for an 8 gb USB-Keys, a 100 gb IDE hard drive and a comparable “small

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Keef
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#82 Post by Keef »

If the AppDirs are put in /mnt/home or where ever, are users expected to find and run them from there?
If a method is used to put an icon on the desktop, or a menu entry, then Rox itself is irrelevant I think. A link to the directory or to the wrapper-script/binary inside has the same effect.

I run Opera and Synfig (2D animation) as AppDirs, but Rox just saves me a click.

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mikeslr
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Sorry for any confusion

#83 Post by mikeslr »

Hi Keef,

If your question was generated by my post, I apologize for any confusion. I wasn't suggesting that the AppDirs be place in mnt/home. AppDirs must remain within Puppy proper, either as part of the NameOfPuppy_VersionNumber.sfs included in the NameOfPuppy.iso or its remaster or as part of the "merged filesystem" if you are using a SaveFile. It is SFSes and Program Folders which are usually placed in /mnt/home. [You wouldn't want to locate a Program Folder within your SaveFile because --as in Full installs-- the files within it are NOT compressed. That is one of the reasons the use of Program Folders can reduce the use of RAM and/or CPU by up to 45%. On the other hand, the Program Folder equivalent of an 173 Mb SFS gz compressed requires over 500 mb of disk space].

But having re-read your question, I think you've made two false assumptions. The first is that RoxApps can be run when Rox is NOT the File-Manager. They can't. The second is that the purpose of this thread is to discuss his implementation of RoxApp, which it is not. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the benefits and detriments, issues and ideas in general relating to building Puppy in a modular fashion. As I understand it, RSH has developed an implementation, Rox App Builder, open for discussion and criticism here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=720483

mikesLr
Last edited by mikeslr on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 01:36, edited 1 time in total.

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RSH
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Modularity Package uploaded

#84 Post by RSH »

Ok.

After 35 hours of constantly work, it is done.

Tested successfully (and already in use) in Lucid 525, 528, LxPup 13.01, MacPup 525, Precise 5.6 & 5.7.1, Studio 4, Studio 13.37, Slacko 5.3 and Wary 5.2!

The Modularity Package, which contains SFS PLUS 4 (3.9.3), RoxApp Builder 0.9.0 and RSHs ScriptBox 1.3.7, is now uploaded to my repository at smokey 01.com.

Its size is now 27 MB, but don't be scared on this size. It is just this big, because of some portable applications for Wine and Linux are included, to give you the most comfortable way possible, to have an easy start with that.

Here is the Modularity Package.

And here is a short Guide how to set this up, plus some information about content etc.pp.

---

Download the Modularity-Package.tar.gz file and unpack this onto a EXT partition.

###############################################################################
# 2013-11-11, RSH, GPL2, RSH - R-S-H @ murga-forum (puppy-linux.org) #
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------- #
# SFS P.L.U.S. 4 (3.9.3) including RoxApp Builder 0.9.0 packaged in #
# RSHs ScriptBox 1.3.7 - a RoxApp Application Directory #
###############################################################################



###############
# Requirements:
###############

- at least the boot partition should be either a EXT partition or,
- if not, then there should be a parallel partition 1 in !!!EXT!!! format

Example:

- - boot partition = sdd1
- - parallel partition 1 = sdd2
- - parallel partition 2 = sdd3



###############
# Installation:
###############

- directory 'Module' goes to boot partition (NOT directory!)
- directory 'My-Files' goes to boot partition also
- directory 'PortableApplications' goes to boot partition as well
- directory 'RoxApp-Application-Starters' containes some application starters,
- - that shall be used for an example, to show the re-build of such a RoxApp
- - no matter, where to store these - use !!!partition in EXT format!!!

- content of directory 'RoxApp-Collection', which is directory 'RoxApps'
- - goes to parallel partition 1 (EXT format) or, if not existing, to
- - boot partition (needs to be EXt format then)

- content of 'RSHs-Scriptbox-Including-SFS-PLUS-Suite-And-RoxApp-Builder',
- - which is directory 'RSHs-ScriptBox', goes to parallel partition 1 (EXT)
- - or, if not existing, to boot partition (needs to be EXt format then)

- content of directory 'Some useful Scripts', which is 'Scripts' goes to
- - boot partition again

- directory 'WineInstalls' goes to -yes- boot partition

- files 'lped' and 'lped-bak' are going to boot partition one more time



So, let's assume, you have boot partition sdd1. Then the paths should look
like the following listed:

- /mnt/sdd1/Module # Store SFS Modules here, it downloads to here also
- /mnt/sdd1/My-Files # Your directories an files to be saved herein
- /mnt/sdd1/Pikona # Needs ImageMagick (can use LP2_ImageMagick-6.6.9-5.sfs)
- /mnt/sdd1/PortableApplications # PortableApps for Linux and Wine
- /mnt/sdd1/Scripts # Simple but useful Scripts
- /mnt/sdd1/WineInstalls # Setup.exe files for Wine
- /mnt/sdd1/lped # Directory and File Names
- /mnt/sdd1/lped-bak # Backup of 'lped'

- /mnt/sdd2/RoxApps (or even: /mnt/sdd1/RoxApps, if /mnt/sdd2 doesn't exist)
- /mnt/sdd2/RSHs-ScriptBox (or even: /mnt/sdd1/RSHs-ScriptBox, ... ...)



######################################
# Content of Package - short Overview:
######################################

- Shutdown GUI
- RSHs-ScriptBox Toolbox (38 Scripts/Utilities)
- RSHs-ScriptBox Sub-Tools (16 Scripts/Utilities)

- LP3_SFS_PLUS_3.sfs (SFS P.L.U.S. Suite 4 (3.9.3)
- - this offers 25 applications for the use on editing/building SFS Modules,
- - converting PET to SFS (and revert), creating RunScripts and many more

- LP3_ScriptBox_Icons.sfs (Icons for RSHs ScriptBox)
- LP3_SFS_PLUS-3.9.3-install.pet (needs only to be installd, when the OS
- - shall be enabled to use the SFS P.L.U.S. RunScripts without the use of
- - LP3_SFS_PLUS_3.sfs)

- RunScripts for SFS Modules (currently 545) and portable Applications for
- - Linux (1) and some for the use in Wine (17)
- - it uses 'LP2_WineCorelSuite' from LazY Puppy, which is not available to
- - download - just use the (to be) renamed 'LP2_Wine.sfs' for this

- RSHs RoxApp Builder 0.9.0
- - a useful Tool (GUI enabled with backends) to create RoxApp Programs in
- - different ways for different uses

Beside this there are some portable applications for Linux, Wine and also some
applications to install in Wine (use 'LazY WInstND' for this). Inside directory
'My-Files' are also some directories and files placed. When you want to change
any of the directories names, please edit its name in file 'lped' as well!!!

For SFS P.L.U.S. Suite and for the use of 'RSHs-ScriptBox' above listed file,
'/mnt/boot-partition-here/lped' is needed. For a published OS, that just uses
pre-build RunScript (created and included into the OS by the developer), only
'LP3_SFS_PLUS-3.9.3-install.pet' needs to be installed (ca. 142 KB). For simply
a daily use, do not install anything ---> read more below!



#################################
# How to use this at first start:
#################################

If everything is setup as described above and a fresh clean Puppy has been
successfully booted from boot partition, just open parallel partition 1 and
execute a single left-click onto the RSHs-ScriptBox RoxApp Directory Icon.

That's it!

Ready for use!

Have Fun with that...

RSH



Note: you can use 'RSHs-ScriptBox' and modify it for your own needs. I will not
make any further updates to 'RSHs-ScriptBox'. Only updates of 'SFS P.L.U.S.
Suite' and 'RoxApp Builder' will take place from time to time (if necessary
or evolved somehow).

'RSHs ScriptBox' has found its place inside this package just to show, what
anyone easily can build for his own needs, by using 'SFS P.L.U.S. Suite' and
the 'RoxApp Builder'.

It gives a small impression of what I have setup over here. Currently I do use
a OS of 130 MB in size, plus -setup in a way as it is shown herein- some extra
Software of 11,247 MB - the biggest pool is SFS Modules!

Click it, keep it. And for this time: two thumbs UP!



#############################################
# MD5-Sum: 57696b3a9a5e83ae68a6bfadf30d5a56
#############################################

######################################################
# SHA1-Sum: fb700c17818cb6a38b115da07c671c0a5b07ec69
######################################################



###############################################################################
# End of: SFS P.L.U.S. 4 (3.9.3) including RoxApp Builder 0.9.0 packaged in #
# RSHs ScriptBox 1.3.7 - a RoxApp Application Directory #
# --------------------------------------------------------------------------- #
# 2013-11-11, RSH, GPL2, RSH - R-S-H @ murga-forum (puppy-linux.org) #
###############################################################################

Edit:

Just forgot to mention:

To use the RoxApps included in the Modularity-Package, download its related SFS File from my repository at smokey01.com/RSH/ and store it to /mnt/your-boot-partition/Module - the RoxApps do need the SFS at this location, because all they use is a symbolic link to the SFS.
[b][url=http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com]LazY Puppy[/url][/b]
[b][url=http://rshs-dna.weebly.com]RSH's DNA[/url][/b]
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91422][b]SARA B.[/b][/url]

dancytron
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#85 Post by dancytron »

RSH - I downloaded this and will try to test it for you by the end of this week.

Dan

edit:
Okay, manual frugal install of Precise 5.7.1 on SDA3 (EXT4 partition). Copied folders to SDA3.
I played with it a little. The Lazy Puppy download an sfs on the fly worked okay.

I don't really understand the Rox app thing yet.
Last edited by dancytron on Thu 14 Nov 2013, 05:49, edited 1 time in total.

mhanifpriatama
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Tiny Core Linux, modular linux

#86 Post by mhanifpriatama »

Puppy linux is my daily use. But I do not like pupsave. If I not use pupsave, boot comes long time. (Sorry my English). I do modular things in my slacko that can be load from 5.5 and 5.6 (fresh frugal).
I interested to Tiny Core Linux system(fast boot). They fully modular, like Pupngo. This post is from tiny core linux 5.x. I can load inkscape.sfs from slacko repo, and copy their dependencies from slacko.sfs. (Just rename inkscape.sfs to inkscape.tcz, and cp dependencies).
Because I'm not DEVs, I wait a Dev person who can make puppified Tiny Core Linux. Your Lazzy Puppy is something like similar. (Sorry if wrong).

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sunburnt
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#87 Post by sunburnt »

Hi mhanifpriatama; Puppy and TinyCore work completely differently. T.C. has no union.
But the easy app. download and install from other distro. repos. could be possible in Puppy.

RSH`s modular LazyPup is movement in the right direction for Puppy. But a solitary movement.

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mikeb
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#88 Post by mikeb »

Ok instead of bitching about me in another thread you should have posted here.

The reason I did not reply (or test) straight away is because I had nothing to say.

If I did it would be something like 'Is this a joke?'

mike

raffy
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takes time

#89 Post by raffy »

sunburnt wrote:RSH`s modular LazyPup is movement in the right direction for Puppy. But a solitary movement.
It takes time for people to test new ways, so some patience and waiting is needed on the part of the dev.

I have used RoxApp in the past, and it's been used in Puppy circa version 1+, so I can say that I like it, but I still have to find time to test what RSH has done here.
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].

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sunburnt
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#90 Post by sunburnt »

Main interface is the ScriptBox right-click menu that`s a modded Rox menu.
There are tons of scripts, so lots of installed infrastructure and complexity.

# Thoughts: I agree with amigo that simple is the only way to go...
Modularity as a concept is great. But any added complexity is a heavy toll.

An AppDir package is self-contained and no-install = little infrastructure.
SFS files are no install ( sort of...), but need a union = added infrastructure.

An app menu for both SFS and AppDir would handle both transparently.
There`s no need that the user ever know that there`s a difference.
.

raffy
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SFS-Load on-the-fly

#91 Post by raffy »

If the user's Puppy has SFS-Load on-the-fly, then all s/he has to do is to load a program's sfs to use that program. Will additional scripts be needed at all?

Or, is there a more important result achieved through the scripts?
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].

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mikeb
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#92 Post by mikeb »

Loaded at boot sfs files placed with the main sfs...no configs to setup.
A folder of optional ones to get loaded with a right click.

Inspired by the simplicity of slax all this works with a few lines over the basics needed to use just a pup_xxx.sfs and a save system.

That's it...nothing more...the rest is just standard linux.

Modular 'should' be simple... that's the main reason for doing it that way in my book.

Module creation is compressing a file tree....manually or the odd 2 line script. .... my slobby engineering nature brought me to this point :D

mike

simultaneous posts....
Or, is there a more important result achieved through the scripts?
for standard pups there is the problem of upside down layering so scripting is needed to bring out the hidden files.... otherwise there would be nothing to do apart for perhaps refreshing the menu.

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RSH
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#93 Post by RSH »

sunburnt wrote:Main interface is the ScriptBox right-click menu that`s a modded Rox menu.
There are tons of scripts, so lots of installed infrastructure and complexity.

# Thoughts: I agree with amigo that simple is the only way to go...
Modularity as a concept is great. But any added complexity is a heavy toll.

An AppDir package is self-contained and no-install = little infrastructure.
SFS files are no install ( sort of...), but need a union = added infrastructure.

An app menu for both SFS and AppDir would handle both transparently.
There`s no need that the user ever know that there`s a difference.
.
Yes, any added complexity is a heavy toll, but as I've stated before, RSHs-ScriptBox has only find its place in the Modularity Package, to give any testers an easy way of start and testing.

RSHs-ScriptBox is NOT a part of the Modularity Concept!

The Modularity Concept is SFS Module based!

The RoxApps -like the RSHs-ScriptBox- are just an addition to show, how such can be put together and how easy it will work.

Meanwhile i have reached some PMs, but I don't have the time to reply to any at the Moment. Will do it later - sorry, but I'm really busy.

---

However, to make you all more able to understand, what I am doing, do test the attached.tar.gz. It contains a StandAlone-RoxApp-directory, named: LP2_JWildFire-1.01.sfs.Scripts, which you can store where ever you want, as long as the location can handle linux-type symbolic links.

Nothing, absolutely nothing of the Modularity Package is needed to run this and to include this into a Operating System - so, please get it all out of the way for testings.

Please do some testings in a fresh and clean puppy. Do not forget to create directory Module on boot partition, when trying this on installed puppies. it will still download to this directory.

Please, do test this also by booting from CD. If you will have already downloaded LP2_JWildFire-1.01.sfs, move it , so that it can't be found.
It will (should) download the LP2_jre-1.7u13-i586.sfs as well, which is the dependent SFS Module of LP2_JWildFire-1.01.sfs.

When testing this from CD booting, first open the directory LP2_JWildFire-1.01.sfs.Scripts and go to its hidden .data directory. There is a empty file: download_dir_temp, open this in a text editor and insert a drive, where to store the downloaded SFS Module.

Note: insert just the drives name (e.g. sdd1), no /mnt and no further directory name. It will create automatically its download directory by using the DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX in its name.

If you don't insert any drive to this file, the SFS Module will download to /tmp into a sub directory by using the DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX in its name.

After first use, this file download_dir_temp is copied to /tmp and after this each time executing such a StandAlone-RunScript-RoxApp-Dir will read this file out. So, after a first go, you need to edit the /tmp/download_dir_temp because it will not be overwritten if existing in /tmp.

Please do test both variants when using this from CD. Currently I can not make tests on this download feature, so I need your test results.

Please do test also with mounted and unmounted drives - it should mount the drive/s automatically.

When I'm publishing the Modularity Concept (SFS P.L.U.S.), such StandAlone-RunScript-RoxApp-Dir would be the only thing that any OS developer would have to provide for the OS.

Ok, that's all for now. hopefully I did not forget anything to mention and some successful test results will return.

I'm back on duty...

RSH

P.S.

A PM wrote (can't resist to quote this PM):
Hi RSH :D
OK HOLLY S#@T ! I just did a fresh frugal install of precise 5.7.1 and added your Modularity Package :D :D :D
I am at a loss for words right now ! I don't know alot about how everything works yet but I am rubbing my eyes trying to take it all in :lol: Very very nice work ! I will be sure to post on it soon after i am done collecting myself !
I dont know yet how much I like it but you definitely have my attention !
Well done ! :wink:
Edit, 2013-11-25, 21:25 GMT+1:

Attachment removed, upload of a improved version will follow and be posted on page 8.
Last edited by RSH on Mon 25 Nov 2013, 20:09, edited 1 time in total.
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mikeb
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#94 Post by mikeb »

Ok downloaded it, tried it but no sfs obtained perhaps the lack of DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX would be the reason.... something easily hacked or is there more to it?

my-roxapps was about the first thing I removed from puppy many years ago so the sight of a huge pile of them made me a little wary (no pun intended)
If its just for demonstrating sfs usage then a misunderstanding has occured.

mike

ok gave DISTRO_FILE_PREFIX a value in the script but still no joy. :( any other puppy version dependant variables ?

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#95 Post by partsman »

Hello all :wink:
Ok i have precise 5.7.1 frugal installed on an ext4 partition on my hard drive with modular package installed ! So far so good :wink: Been using a couple of days no no problems ! I must say i am amazed with this and the fact that i dont have the worry of a save file is awesome ! Very nice work RSH :wink: So just to clarify the use of sfs files and RSH script box are not the modular idea here "just a little extra bonus" am i right ?
This is very impressive ! As i read back through this thread RSH is right ! Alot of problems with apps not working etc. pertain to the save file ! I know just from my own experience that i have on more than 1 occasion accidentally deleted my save file :cry:
@RSH : Its hard to embrace change ! Its a human thing ! But the more you use it the more comfortable you become :wink:
Remember the first time you used puppy ? It was all new then ! But you learned to use it ! RSH's modularity concept is no different :wink:
[color=red]Anyone can build a fast processor. The trick is to build a fast system. (Seymour Cray)[/color] :wink:

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mikeb
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#96 Post by mikeb »

Been doing the modular boogie since 2009 using nimblex and then applied the principles to puppy, and also no save files so no convincing needed here.

Wondering about a gathering of scripts for sfs making... deb2sfs, rpm2sfs and so on ...many exist but perhaps there are a few gaps.

mike

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sunburnt
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#97 Post by sunburnt »

Took a look at Nimblex, too bad they`re not up to date. But nice web site and it seems they`re competent.

What a shame that Puppy has so little of this. It`s even hard to tell how cohesive Puppy is.

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mikeb
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#98 Post by mikeb »

Well Nimblex was quite a nice attempt at a more desktop friendly version of SLAX. I even used their kde modules on puppy which worked quite well but going the other way and puppyfying it made more sense in the end.... even if the word does not...anyway I digress and there's a longer story not for here

mike

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inoxidabile
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#99 Post by inoxidabile »

Hi everybody!
Sorry, just a little question... Trying Lazy as live from usb.

Clicking on the top bar for internet it says that there isn't sfs for firefox.
Then it asks for download it, after accept this the download starts (from smokey01) and then it seems ok.
But after good download a message appears, saying that it isn't ok.

Then, with Puppy package manager I select firefox and in this way everything runs fine.

partsman
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#100 Post by partsman »

inoxidabile wrote:Hi everybody!
Sorry, just a little question... Trying Lazy as live from usb.

Clicking on the top bar for internet it says that there isn't sfs for firefox.
Then it asks for download it, after accept this the download starts (from smokey01) and then it seems ok.
But after good download a message appears, saying that it isn't ok.

Then, with Puppy package manager I select firefox and in this way everything runs fine.
This kinda makes it sound like you have installed lazy puppy !
please read this and follow the instructions here :wink:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 139#736139
Or maybe i miss understand you ? :oops:
[color=red]Anyone can build a fast processor. The trick is to build a fast system. (Seymour Cray)[/color] :wink:

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