Community Edition anyone interested?

[wanderer]

the community puppy cant fail
if we just keep working on it
it will continue to evolve
and it helps bring the puppy community together

wanderer

[mavrothal]

yes but they can't help us. Slackware is much more stable and faster than debian/ubuntu/mint. If you want a TRUELY stable distro, Slackware is the ONLY way to go.

There are already both 32 and 64 bit slackware based puppies and as far as I know both Micko and Q5sys intent to go on with them.
Regarding stability, Debian-stable is stable to the point that is boring! You have to go to enterprise solution (RedHat) to find something more stable.
Actually Debian-testing may be better and a bit exciting too

[01micko]

Debian-stable is stable to the point that is boring! You have to go to enterprise solution (RedHat) to find something more stable.
Actually Debian-testing might be a bit exciting too

Probably a good choice though, especially since BK did a lot of work on PPM for debian compatibility.

[Iguleder]

Guys, we're starting a distro war. Gotta settle on one distro or go solo

I think Debian stable and Slackware are the best options, because it's extremely hard to follow testing with Woof. I've built puplets from stable, testing and sid - it's amazingly complex to keep up with sid and testing seems to break on a monthly basis before the freeze

[jamesbond]

@JamesBond suggests that we find ways to raise money for the idea and strategies for Puppy LInux. And to use that money to disperse to those individuals who actually work on the package(s).

No, I'm not making a suggestion. I'm asking you to do it.

But, If he wants, I will help him do so. I'll assist anyone who has some ideas of how to advance this distro. And, new approaches to make it attractive to bring others on-board and advance Puppy Linux is just what is needed.

No, I don't need or want help because I'm not going to do anything. I am asking *you* (gcmartin, not anyone else) to take the lead and *do* it. In case it's not clear, I am asking *you* to organise the fundraising. Me, I will just watch from the side and give comments

Are *you* willing to do it? Is Puppy worth enough of your time to spend on fundraising efforts?

[wanderer]

i am going to try to build an iso
with woof debian
this makes the most sense to me at this time
if things change
we can also make changes

hopefully i will be able to do this
i will start actually downloading things tomorrow
and will work over the weekend
i will report back to the forum
on my progress

i'm sure i will need a lot of help
so any help or any kind of input is appreciated

remember our goal
is just to work on a new puppy together
as a community
so that everyone will have an opportunity to participate
the fact that you are reading this forum
means our goal is being accomplished

thanks to everyone
and i'm sure i will be begging for help soon

wanderer

[mavrothal]

Guys, we're starting a distro war.

I do not see any war. I believe we settled on Debian-stable (we do not need any excitement now )

On a different but related note. I can see that Playdayz is arround these days...

[gcmartin]

... Are *you* willing to do it? Is Puppy worth enough of your time to spend on fundraising efforts?

???

Maybe you miss-understood. I already agreed to help with your suggestion. In fact, I think it's a good idea.

Thoughts.

[mavrothal]

... Are *you* willing to do it? Is Puppy worth enough of your time to spend on fundraising efforts?

???

Maybe you miss-understood. I already agreed to help with your suggestion.

gcmartin,
3000 post of no code or debug contributions but plenty of ideas on how Puppy should develop, suggest that you can really mount a campaign.
Put this ability into good use to produce a tangible beneficial outcome for Puppy yourself.
I think that $100,000 is probably too high of a goal but even $10,000 can go a long way in puppy development.
So, as you suggest in your signature "Get ACTIVE"

[zigbert]

Debian or Slackware - who cares?
The one who leads the project will decide.

[wanderer]

hey everyone

to get our project going
i'm going to try to build a woof debian iso
over the weekend

i dont have any experience with woof
so i dont know if i can get woof
to do what i want it to do
or even if i can get woof to work for me
however i will keep trying until i get it done

i am reading the info
on the forum
and on the woof page
but if there is anyone
who can give me advice
or help
that would be great

i will keep the forum posted
about my progress

wanderer

[anikin]

I believe we should write Woof 3 as a community effort, but we must prove we can build something usable using today's Woof first.

Woof 2 has many drawbacks and I feel it's way too old-fashioned, bloated, x86-centric and encumbered with legacy code. However, it's too early to change this situation.

May I humbly ask you, guys to do one thing before you proceed with the actual work.

Please, get xorgwizard out of woof and let Puppy boot straight to X/desktop - like all other OSes/distros do. No flag-sticking, no sniffing around users' computers - a transparent startup routine. Please, take a step, that is long overdue.

Thank you.

.

[greengeek]

I think we mustn't give up the alternative to Woof, full independence, in case the community release model fails.

+ 2

[wanderer]

the way i see it there are (at least)
2 ways to make the iso

1. the woof way
i assume this is pretty complex
and limited by the scripts
i dont know but we will see

2. the "build from parts" way
this is the way i like to do it
as you not the script are moving the parts

i am going to try a hybrid approach

i will try to make a series of small isos with woof
for each stage of the process of building the iso

stage 1 ramdrive command line only
stage 2 basic x image x jwm rxvt only
stage 3 basic apps image emelfm rox leafpad
stage 4 basic internet image dhcpd dillo
stage 5 web browser and media player image
stage 5 other apps that we want image

we can then tear these images apart and streamline them

and when we understand the basics of woof
we can modify it so that it is straighforward and minimal

i will start doing this today

any thoughts ?

wanderer

[Iguleder]

I'd go for a more traditional selection of applications, to appeal more to today's Puppy fans

While you take the Woof path, I'm exploring the other way around - total independence. I have a bootable, 13 MB ISO for x86_64, with the latest Linux 3.10.x (LTS), which recognizes all my hardware, without BusyBox, toybox, udev and systemd ... but lacks a graphical desktop. The whole thing can be built automatically for 32 or 64 bit, so 64 bit is the main focus right now.

Today, I got the good old Xfbdev to run (940 KB, it's tiny!) on this thing and ported OpenBSD 5.4's window manager to Linux, since I want to use it as the window manager. I'm stuck with a wild bug which causes all requests to the X server to fail, but once I get it to work, we can easily build a small 20-25 MB Puppy with a barebones graphical desktop - something similar to Tiny Core, but better, since the Tiny Core developers don't have a tiny X server for their 64 bit flavor - they're stuck with an old, 32-bit Xvesa binary.

EDIT: forgot to ask. Am I the only one who misses the 4.2.1 days, times when everything "just works", even when it's a community release, despite of the fact Puppy doesn't uses pre-made packages from another distro? It's hard to be on your own in the Linux world (i.e think of Fuduntu and SolusOS), but I really like Tiny Core's way of doing things and I think we can learn a lot from it, especially in the area of community-maintained packages

[cthisbear]

"Am I the only one who misses the 4.2.1 days, times when everything
"just works","

Ah! yes. Those were the Days my friend.

Cheers to you Mr Iggy.....Chris.

[jpeps]

"

Ah! yes. Those were the Days my friend.

Cheers to you Mr Iggy.....Chris.

Yes, before modern applications that utilize current available, abundant, cheap resources.

[Geoffrey]

Just asking, is this something that is to be usable by anyone, or just a play thing for geeks, it's beginning to sound very antiquated.

cheers Geoff

[gcmartin]

For those who suggest raising money for development, how about some suggestions to what would make you comfortable donating money? Have you done so to an organization before? What do you feel is going to be a driver for donations to this project, as you suggest?

Again, if you feel I can help, you must do your parts so that this get off the ground in the right way where most everyone can envision benefit and most importantly ... TRUST. Right?

[jpeps]

Just asking, is this something that is to be usable by anyone, or just a play thing for geeks, it's beginning to sound very antiquated.

cheers Geoff

It's basic devolution, a world with a finite number of "bits" that need to be jealously hoarded and protected. It's basic TinyCore fundamentals, which probably explains their need to control everything and everybody with an ounce of vision or creativity.