Community Edition anyone interested?

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wanderer
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Community Edition anyone interested?

#1 Post by wanderer »

Puppy Community Edition
Last edited by wanderer on Tue 24 Dec 2013, 22:28, edited 7 times in total.

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Iguleder
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#2 Post by Iguleder »

Let's do it, guys! It worked with 4.2.x, Lucid and Slacko.

I say a vanilla Woof-based Puppy from Debian stable packages with backports is the way to go.
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wanderer
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#3 Post by wanderer »

Hey puppy fans

Is anyone interested in working on or talking about
a community edition of puppy

I use puppy on all my computers
I like puppy for many many reasons
I'm not going to get rid of my desktops and laptops
I'm not going to switch to another distro
I dont need puppy to run my cell phone
I dont even own an IPAD

It doesn't matter if this thread goes nowhere
maybe some devs will join or help out
It will be fun if we only end up just talking about it

what puppy version should we use as a base

please answer so I know someone is still alive

by the way
I use ttuuxxx's GREAT Classic Pup
thanks Barry K and ttuuxxx

wanderer

yes i think that's a great idea

if we could keep it real small and simple

but compatible with debian

that would give it the best of both worlds

we could make any additions into sfs files

so the core stays small and simple

hey thanks a whole lot for the interest

with a great dev like you helping our success is assured

wanderer
Last edited by wanderer on Sat 23 Nov 2013, 22:57, edited 2 times in total.

jplt

#4 Post by jplt »

Hi all,

i will be glad to be a fine tester :roll:

wanderer
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#5 Post by wanderer »

thank you for joining

i can test also

and maybe we will even learn enough

to contribute

just post if there is anything we can do

wanderer

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mavrothal
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#6 Post by mavrothal »

Iguleder wrote:Let's do it, guys! It worked with 4.2.x, Lucid and Slacko.

I say a vanilla Woof-based Puppy from Debian stable packages with backports is the way to go.
+1
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wanderer
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#7 Post by wanderer »

thank you for joining

+1

wanderer

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Bert
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#8 Post by Bert »

Sounds good!
[url=http://pupsearch.weebly.com/][img]http://pupsearch.weebly.com/uploads/7/4/6/4/7464374/125791.gif[/img][/url]
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wanderer
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#9 Post by wanderer »

thanks for joining Bert

you guys are a great community

wanderer

simargl5

#10 Post by simargl5 »

Woof is unfortunately too much buggy for making serious Linux distribution,

even BK was tired from fixing that thing.

Is this Woof fork roar ng2 new generation two better? https://github.com/iguleder/roar-ng-ii

anikin
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#11 Post by anikin »

Great idea.
Just don't let this thread get simargulized.
Keep the MF at a safe distance.
.

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Iguleder
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#12 Post by Iguleder »

They're different - apples and oranges.

I believe we should write Woof 3 as a community effort, but we must prove we can build something usable using today's Woof first.

Woof 2 has many drawbacks and I feel it's way too old-fashioned, bloated, x86-centric and encumbered with legacy code. However, it's too early to change this situation.

By the way, we'll need a project lead. Count me in as a developer - I'd like to help with automation frameworks and x86_64 porting.
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DPUP5520
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#13 Post by DPUP5520 »

I'm down for helping out
[url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69651][b][i]PupRescue 2.5[/i][/b][/url]
[url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=72178][b][i]Puppy Crypt 528[/i][/b][/url]

wanderer
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#14 Post by wanderer »

the most important thing

is that we all work together

to produce a new community edition puppy

to show the world

that the puppy community is alive and well

and carrying on Barry K's work

as to the project lead

the people who can do the work

of course will always have the final say

as to what gets made

but i would like to see

everyone participate

and get recognized

either as a dev

or a tester

or suggester

or just a puppy fan

I like the idea of making a vanilla woof puppy from debian as a start

we can then tear it apart and rebuild it

can anyone volunteer to make the first iso

wanderer

darry1966

Re: Community Edition anyone interested?

#15 Post by darry1966 »

I would like to again state first of all thank you guys for the work that has been done and is going to be done and though I'm not around the forum much these days I would like to contribute as a tester.

I like the Debian idea and so like I have said before if any ISO's come up for testing I would like to make that commitment.

Puppy must not go the way of other good distros like Dream Linux, Wolvix and must thrive so all I can add is good luck with this Puppy in whatever guise is very cool

Also I wish to apologise for getting very heated over the simargl thing the other day to all in the community.

bark_bark_bark
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#16 Post by bark_bark_bark »

well simargl is a pain-in-the-ass-troll that we all have to deal with until his IP is banned.
....

wanderer
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#17 Post by wanderer »

how small an iso can woof make

can it just make an iso

that will boot into a basic x desktop

with x jwm and rxvt

can this speed up and simplify

the woof build process

anyone with advice

wanderer

gcmartin

#18 Post by gcmartin »

When Puppy was started, many still had 486s/586s (I know I did).

Persistence and boot sourced startup
What attracted me, at the time was the ability to run its OS without the need to install an OS which can be targeted from the external world. I had worked on several projects where this was done for both Windows and OS2. That is that the system, once booted negated the need for both the HDD storage and the booting peripheral (CD/DVD).

This type of operation still has merit for both that and other reasons. So we could insure that the future approach bring this technology forward.

Base system apps
This community has been constantly attacked by some on ideas of a base system. Everyone has an opinion...everyone. Some wont participate because the base's guidelines may not be consistent with their view. But, we must take into account the kind of community we want the distro to address.

In the interest of having Puppy have even a marginal member expansion, we, in this effort MUST consider some type of distro which will make Linux tire-kickers and users want, to not just come but, to want to continue participation.

There are only so many hours in a day and I have already witnessed that few,today, want to spend much of their time thinking about adding/modifying/changing/redesigning what they have in front of them. Many (including myself) have just enough time to run stuff rather that spend build a system to run stuff (until the next version is released only to build again).

Puppy has alway brought forth a goodly portion of General Purpose Apps. These apps can be broken into categories of which I wont address, for most already know of them. I think it is essential that we might consider carrying this foundation forward with the next PUPPY. And, if an experience user wants to discard lets provide a utility for that experienced user to do so. Inexperienced users do NOT want to do this, nor do they want to expand muchly, either. Puppy has done much in this arena.

In my years of Puppy use and Puppy display on the forum, 99% of the users have never called Puppy "bloated". It has only been experienced people who have done so. We may want to consider providing a system that address the 100% thru a base system that addressed the 99% of us.

LAN services
Puppy has NEVER addressed this in a way where its easy for it to participate on a LAN in the same way that Windows and Macs have done. Kirk, then TaZoc then 01Micko have been the ONLY community devs who have understood the value of this and have addressed it in a base system. No one, I repeat, NO ONE should have to think twice about being able to share a folder on the LAN of things that we collect or create on a Puppy distro. Many distro owners are in fear of doing so for being called out as if they have done something bad by a few of the others. LAN services has been apart of the LAN for almost 30 years. Its time the fear stops. All future PUPs should have SAMBA (a 25 year old Linux product) built in just as is in Fatdog, LightHouse64, and PhatSlacko. This reduce any and all burden on the user community to spend time trying to understand how to move information from their PUppy use to the remainder of the LAN PCs and devices who would need such.

A lesson from KNOPPIX
Puppy began its life doing things similar to what Klaus demonstrated to the world. Since version 5 of said distro, he somehow has managed to deliver a distro which allows you to boot in 32bit mode OR to boot in 64bit mode. I am not a developer, but, I've ofter wonder if the ability to do this in Puppy is hampered by Woof or by technology we dont have.

Touch
TaZoC has the ONLY PUP distro where if you have a touch screen PC you can touch the desktop and its apps to make things happen in the same way you can by using a mouse. This touch implementation by him was very simple (from my point of view). Using a mouse you can see why. Ever click mouse button 2 on an empty portion of the PUP desktop? Well, he move that from mouse button 2 to mouse button 1. A simple choice like this, by him, made all the world of difference so that anyone who has a touch PC can use the screen with mouse button 1 capability at your fingertip. It works. Maybe this can be evaluated for meaningful use.

Boot
This may sound really dumb to some, but, has others thought about why we need the ISO to be exploded to a DVD/CD? Why not have the ISO be booted by a boot manager either on the DVD or HDD or USB without the need to explode it? The present methods work find, though, so this is really a much much low item on a list of things to consider.

System Fixes
Puppy should adopt a method of fix roll-outs. Sometimes we have seen the testers and developers post in a thread resolutions of system/application issues. It would be nice if these ended in fix bucket and the system would periodically check and alert the distro user of these updates. When a distro is booted for the first-time, it should as a matter of course, check or ALERT the user of the need to run PPM to get any updates that may be available for system's update. Further, this should be built-in to the PPM service whenever it is started to alert the user of the availability of updates for the running distro.

Last
I started by mentioning 486/586. When PUPPY started many of us had these things. Today, NO ONE HAS THESE THINGS. We have much newer equipment.

When the new distro is created, the devs should be VERY CLEAR of the environment it is tested and the environment it is supported. It you target 99% of the PC in the world, say so! And, say so about the RAM needs you are addressing; both the minimum AND the maximum. And stop being afraid of what others in this community are going to say. It time we be clears and affirmative about what a distro is intended without fear of reprisals. If you're making it for newer PCs...say so! Stop this fear and the remainder of us should support the developers on this.

Let's make something "Proud" and forward thinking which is attractive!

These are just some ideas for consideration. I will work and do whatever I am capable of to assist those on this project.

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mavrothal
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#19 Post by mavrothal »

Would be ideal if we do not turn this thread as many others before it...
Lets try to keep to specific matters.
This is for a community edition of the good old puppy.
If you want a new/dream/ideal/blahblah puppy, go to another thread (there are many open already) or suggest improvements on the thread of your favorite pupplet.

Iguleder already said "Debian stable" and "woof2".
Debian we can do very little about :D
Regarding woof we can first just try to fix any existing bugs/omissions and then vent out hard-coding from woof2 tree and the standard/common puppy packages.
"root", "rox", various notification apps (lets stick to 1 or 2), etc
This would allow for a more flexible UI so other WM can be used latter.
We can also identify the 32bit binaries and provide 64bit versions aiming for a 32/64bit woof (using the debian 64bit toolchain).
Another consideration which I'm not sure is solved in current woof is how much localization we keep from the debian packages, if any, because it can add considerable size. If not any, how do we implement user-installed locals of the debian packages (most of the puppy code has its pets alright)

If/when a decent puppy comes out and the inevitable bugs are fixed then we can consider woof3 :wink:

If for example we keep the pup_even infrastructure with hard codded devices or we totally go with (e)uved.
The pup_event is a bit archaic by now but the way udev/systemd is going we may add unnecessary bloat on puppy and complicate device compatibility.
I remember techno having some ideas on that front.

Assuming that another decent puppy comes out then we can consider X vs Wayland assuming that by then should be more stable and then....
You get the idea.

For now lets stick with the (possible) minimal changes for v1
(Of course the "release manager" can decide otherwise :wink: )
== [url=http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]Here is how to solve your[/url] [url=https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html]Linux problems fast[/url] ==

simargl5

#20 Post by simargl5 »

mavrothal wrote:For now lets stick with the (possible) minimal changes for v1
(Of course the "release manager" can decide otherwise :wink: )
The one who will setup and manage new Woof2 repository on github, should be Release Manager.

And you know that Iguleder has github account ...

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