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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Android-x86 developments and issues
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct 2013, 10:15    Post subject:  

.
Last edited by Billtoo on Wed 30 Oct 2013, 12:28; edited 1 time in total
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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Location: Moved from Hosla to www.eussenheim.de

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct 2013, 12:09    Post subject: Android-x86 developments
Subject description: issues
 

Edited_time_total
Last edited by L18L on Thu 31 Oct 2013, 13:29; edited 1 time in total
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4434
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct 2013, 13:01    Post subject:  

@L18L???

I can see how our departure of findings on the non-Android's (LightHouse and Ubuntu) use of "touch" could be viewed by some as derailing. So my entry(s) is removed so as not to offend.

But, Android is an OS that centers around "touch" to manage applications serving the user interface. And, more and more purchased x86 CPU systems today, have touch screens.

The concern is if anyone has a touch x86 device, it seems appropriate that Android-x86 provide same-simliar functionality with the built-in hardware of the PCs that Android does on hand-helds.

Would you agree or do you disagree with that? <=== (this question is not to engage in argument, but to try to see whether our view of Android should be about smart devices or about our traditional look at operating systems prior to smart devices.) Any help, from you on this question, helps

I appreciate the sharing of knowledge this thread brings.

Here to help
P.S. I do understand that the mouse presents a substitute for finger touch. But smart devices (including Android devices), today, center around users touching it.

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nancy reagan

Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct 2013, 13:06    Post subject: talking about touch screens = derailing ?  

Even if someone shouts here that talking about "touch", which is a big help, if not essential in Android, is derailing, I nevertheless would like to suggest

USE Android tablet or smartphone as a client ? (Yes you must have a server as well).

Total noob, so pardon me.
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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Location: Moved from Hosla to www.eussenheim.de

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct 2013, 15:50    Post subject:  

touch is not essential
mouse is not essential
voice is...

I think you cqn use real keyboards, real mice and real large wide screen together with tablets
...and I am using (or trying to use) android-x86 on my x86 computer

thus android-x86 is just another Linux operating system.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct 2013, 19:14    Post subject:  

@L18L, please accept this as help.

MIT has a free Android development tool which make it easy for anyone to take a step to create an Android app. Its very easy to use.

Take a look at it and you'll see something (or a lot) of what Android is. Yes, a Linux foundation, but, its been specialized for the experiences we see. Most of it is aimed at touch (via some means).

On a different note and on a different thread, the Canonical (Ubuntu) direction is toward a desktop touch experience using a more traditional version of LInux. (We'll have to wait until early 2014 to see what they provide for us.)

And, even Google ChromeOS "Touch" is a little different even though all of these use a LInux base.

Android-x86 intends to allow us to use a desktop to get "acquainted" with Android. Its desktop tries to make that experience obvious even though some functionality is not present.

Hope this helps

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L18L

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PostPosted: Thu 31 Oct 2013, 13:28    Post subject:  

accepted
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Nov 2013, 15:58    Post subject:  

@Jpeps comments on Android development technique in another thread.

Webviews Yes! Fragments Yes! All contained within each single Activity Yes!

Few developers see what you see. And, as Android grows, and task management evolves, we are on the doorstep of a whole new class of applications running across platforms. And as each Activity is self contained, security management will change as this minimizes local exposure(s).

This is a rather provocative feature. I wonder how long before and more important, "will" everyone catch on in development?

Thanks for that observation of a revolutionary aspect of Android development.

Additionally, reading between the lines you can see some of what Android 4.4 positions for any developers to bring to the table Respectively, ALL development tools must be upgraded to account for the change in development direction that is offered. Although, I know the powers are well intentioned in tool development, I'm guessing it could be as much as a year before some actually get it right.

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Nov 2013, 16:22    Post subject:  

Strange that printing and sharing files to the cloud is being listed as "new". The WSJ app shares articles to 20 places, including both installed apps and the cloud. The app also knows my printer apps, so lists both Cloud Print and Easy Print. This already is standard procedure.

Quote:

I'm guessing it could be as much as a year before some actually get it right.


Smile Not when money is involved...more like a week, with an automatic update.
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Sat 02 Nov 2013, 23:19    Post subject: Android 4.4 focuses a direction in a delicate and quiet way  

Money, I agree. But, if they dont see the path for generating an Activity in the new pathing provided by Google; namely fragments and Webview, then, they will go on building incorrectly. And, only those who see it will take advantage of the pathing as it does impact both system demand reductions while increasing functionality to the Activity servicing the user; not to mention the portability that comes with this.

An application in Android development language is an Activity. Within the Activity is resources which are structured to accomplish things in the Activity. Fragments are the action pieces of the Activity and Webviews are features that fragments can use in service provisioning.

All of this is occurring as Google itself is "evolving" the development tools, approaches, and its own architectural changes in Android as it tweaks and moves to refinement toward some semblance of a singularity.

Its like watching a kaleidoscope as hardware casing changes with buttons missing-moved, along with all of this stuff. etc.

But, I have to admit one important thing which is NOT being addressed in the press so much; look what they did to the price of things. This is a "major" change as everyone else was getting upwards of $700 for a high-end device. I wonder if they did it for the public or if they did it for developers. Either way, this is a quiet, significant, shot over the bow.

Edited: Paragraph on an Activity in Android world.

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Last edited by gcmartin on Sun 03 Nov 2013, 02:08; edited 1 time in total
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov 2013, 00:11    Post subject: Re: Android 4.4 focuses a direction in a delicate and quiet way  

gcmartin wrote:


But, I have to admit one important thing which is NOT being addressed in the press so much; look what they did to the price of things. This is a "major" change as everyone else was getting upwards of $700 for a high-end device. I wonder if they did it for the public or if they did it for developers. Either way, this is a quiet, significant, shot over the bow.


Basic economy of scale. Prices have to keep coming down to get a smartphone into the hands of everyone on the planet. This has been going on in technology for a long time now...corporations (or private startups) losing money every quarter to gain market share. With market share, you can interest advertisers, which is where the real money is.
Quote:

Why High-End Smartphones Do Not Lead the Southeast Asia Market

"The smartphone is now slowly becoming a necessity for consumers, and research firm GfK thinks that Southeast Asia is the driver of its global growth. In terms of the smartphone market, we have seen Apple and Samsung smartphones take the lead and battle against each other in Southeast Asia for quite some time. But it looks like this growth does not belong to Apple or Samsung, anymore.Why is that so? Michael Morgan, analyst at ABI Research says in an interview with Bloomberg, that “the days of great growth in the high end of the market are gone.”

"The rise of local brands in countries such as Philippines and Indonesia has resulted in the growing market share of those in the $50 to $100 price segment—the budget price range which bridges the transition from basic mobile phones to smartphones.”

http://www.techinasia.com/high-end-smartphones-do-not-lead-southeast-asia-market/

Here's another:

The Upfront Software Price is Now Free

Quote:

With Apple’s iOS and Google’s Android operating system offered freely, it was only a question of time before all operating system offerings went to this model. Apple’s recent price drop on OSX is the continuation of a trend that started with Linux operating systems, and became stronger with the rise of mobile devices.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/tristanlouis/2013/11/02/the-upfront-software-price-is-now-free/

Revolutionary Change? You bet.
 "Discussion may be tolerated or allowed, but the improvement is going to take place."
http://www.heitmanagement.com/blog/2013/06/revolutionary-vs-evolutionary-organizational-change/
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov 2013, 00:37    Post subject:  

Android 4.4 is has some sharp differences in both architecture and Activity (applications) operations. There are several way to look at the Nexus 5 in what they are doing (or trying to do).

Here one
The speed overall base systems operation thru under the cover changes in the OS, They throw in a superior processor but, they do not provide more RAM. On the Nexus, they do NOT give you SIM expansion ability, either.

This appears to be an artificial and subtle steering to developers as they progress Andoid along. I read this is as approach by them to intentionally "slow" development progress as they continue to try to morph Android into its next level. This could mean that this release is a stepping stone as they attempt to architecturally structure things into the corral as they see it.

At CES, next year, we may see their vision and a new platform with a new Android architecture and a new platform with increased RAM (Samsung may have re-announce this with a 3GB Note 3 while Google has "locked" developers in, currently, at 2GB).

The "shot over the bow" reference in an earlier post is showing up in current commercials and they are touting the "speech" component of the new system. ... subtlely.

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Last edited by gcmartin on Mon 04 Nov 2013, 00:47; edited 1 time in total
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov 2013, 00:46    Post subject:  

On Android x86, I wonder if there will be an Intel/AMD board for vendors that will have a Bluetooth, Accelerometer and a GPS in an All-in-One Touch unit(s) before Christmas.

And, not having a Surface-Pro (you know, the x86 models), is that hardware available to snake in an Android-x86?

This would make for some interesting opportunity in the Android-x86 project and the apps which would be created.

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov 2013, 03:32    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:


The speed overall base systems operation thru under the cover changes in the OS, They throw in a superior processor but, they do not provide more RAM. On the Nexus, they do NOT give you SIM expansion ability, either.

This appears to be an artificial and subtle steering to developers as they progress Andoid along.


The current Nexus 7 has twice the RAM and a simm card (missing in the older version).

Same scenario for my LG smartphone. Latest version has twice the RAM, and far more internal memory. Also, much faster CPU & better battery efficiency.

Android manages your RAM in the background..distributing it to base apps when resources become scarce. I never had a RAM issue running videos, unlike my Linux system with the same amount.
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov 2013, 04:30    Post subject:  

jpeps wrote:
... The current Nexus 7 ...
I probably should have said Nexus 5. In mentioning RAM, I was talking about the "processor" RAM where the OS runs....not the RAM you order the system with.

You point out correctly that just because the family name may be Nexus, depending on what year and which of the Nexus family (5/7/10) the hardware capability will differ. But, to my knowledge, no Nexus platform comes with more that 2GB "processor" RAM. Even though the built-in nonvolatile RAM and the additional microSD cards that can be added, the 2GB imposes an subtle barrier. The SAMSUNG saw something when they designed 3GB "processor" RAM to support the OS and Apps for their Note3. Looking at the store's version of the Note3 is not anywhere near the 3GB ceiling. I'm currently in possession of a Note2

Hope this is a bit clearer.

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