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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Package Collections / Repositories
Group major run-times (java, Python, etc.) in separate sfs?
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4332
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 21 Oct 2013, 08:17    Post subject:  Group major run-times (java, Python, etc.) in separate sfs?
Subject description: How practical or useful would it be for the end user?
 

Hello!

How useful would it be to group the latest run-time versions for perl,
python, java jre, and qt, and perhaps a few other important programming
languages in a single sfs, separate from the devx file?

In this context, perl and python could even be transferred from the devx
file to this separate programming languages sfs, thus making the devx
lighter.

Those languages would be all in one place, and the user would not have to
look all over the place to download them when (s)he needs to run an
application written in language x.

Has something like this ever been attempted for Puppy? On another distro?
Do you think it's a practical idea?

Since I'm a power user and not a specialist in any of the above languages,
I thought I'd ask for expert advice about the pros and cons, the feasability
and the usefulness of such a project.

Thanks in advance for any input and best regards.

musher0

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"Logical entities must not be multiplied needlessly." / "Il ne faut pas multiplier les êtres logiques inutilement." (Ockham)

Last edited by musher0 on Tue 22 Oct 2013, 16:56; edited 1 time in total
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4332
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 10:10    Post subject:  

Hello!

I'm reporting success with this procedure on sulu-5.2.8.6, as follows:
* the zs001025.sfs file now contains, in addition to the initial drivers,
__java_jre1.7.0_45 and the qt-4.8.1 libraries;
* in lupu_devx_528-4.sfs, python-2.6 has been replaced with v. 3.3.2.

I prepared the substitute files in the Puppy it was intended for, but I had
to over-write the files in the sulu folder from another Puppy. Beforehand,
I also un-hooked the respective sfs's in the boot manager.

The Puppy boot process took a couple of seconds longer, but the changes
were not noticed. I tested a few java and Qt programs , and everything is
working fine.

BFN.

musher0

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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 290
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 10:54    Post subject:  

I think your one to something good here. I do not understand a thing about coding my self, but I understand the need for these tools to develop.

Maybe Bacon could be something here? (taking a risk on a issue i dont know s*** about)
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 11:18    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
python-2.6 has been replaced with v. 3.3.2.

I believe that python is not backward compatible (a la gtk).
You may want to add it instead of replacing it.

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 11:27    Post subject: Group major run-times (Perl, Python etc) in a separate sfs?
Subject description: BaCon
 

Atle wrote:
...Maybe Bacon could be something here?

BaCon (one of the recommended official languages) produces executables which do not need any of those run-times. Wink
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 290
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 11:35    Post subject:  

What other are recommended languages that can be added?

And thanks for not pointing out my ignorance in a hard manner Embarassed
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 11:50    Post subject:  

Atle wrote:
What other are recommended languages that can be added?
Recommended languages can be compiled to executables.
There is nothing to add to the devx and the executable can be run without devx.
http://puppylinux.com/development/compileapps.htm
http://puppylinux.com/howto/programming.htm Smile
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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2276

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 12:31    Post subject:  

Bad idea -let each one be in its' own. I use perl and python occasionally, but never qt nor java, etc.

Anything that needs such stuff should indicate that in some sort of requires=?? facility so the package manager can handle that. Or how about doing like Slackware and just include everything in a 'full' installation -then when someone has trouble because of something missing you simply scold them "You didn't do a full installation!"
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4332
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 16:06    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
musher0 wrote:
python-2.6 has been replaced with v. 3.3.2.

I believe that python is not backward compatible (a la gtk).
You may want to add it instead of replacing it.


Thanks for the education Smile, rerwin. Numerous python sites confirm this.
Would an update to Python to 2.7.5 be a safer alternative?

Or should v. 2.6 be left as is in the present devx, and a separate "big
serpents" sfs be made available containing versions 2.7.5 and 3.3.2?

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4332
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 16:15    Post subject:  

L18L wrote:
Atle wrote:
What other are recommended languages that can be added?
Recommended languages can be compiled to executables.
There is nothing to add to the devx and the executable can be run without devx.
http://puppylinux.com/development/compileapps.htm
http://puppylinux.com/howto/programming.htm Smile


Hello, L18L.

BK's well-researched suggestions are all fine and good. BaCon seems like
a good idea, but truth be told, what important and/or useful Vale/Genie
programs can a Puppy user use to his benefit? I mean: not next year,
but today! Smile Kindly name a few!? Twisted Evil

Best regards.

musher0

_________________
"Logical entities must not be multiplied needlessly." / "Il ne faut pas multiplier les êtres logiques inutilement." (Ockham)

Last edited by musher0 on Tue 22 Oct 2013, 16:47; edited 1 time in total
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4332
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 22 Oct 2013, 16:34    Post subject:  

amigo wrote:
Bad idea -let each one be in its' own. I use perl and python occasionally, but never qt nor java, etc.

Anything that needs such stuff should indicate that in some sort of requires=?? facility so the package manager can handle that. Or how about doing like Slackware and just include everything in a 'full' installation -then when someone has trouble because of something missing you simply scold them "You didn't do a full installation!"


Hello, amigo.

So the Slackware people have a twisted sense of humor, eh! Twisted Evil
I always thought they were rather stern. Smile

On a serious note:
I agree that each user should be somewhat on his/her own to fulfill his/her
needs. However, in my mind anyway, inclusion by default of Qt and java
libraries can help bypass the glibc 2.11 limitation that exists in many
not-so-old Puppies.

Here's an example. (All examples are limited in some way or other, but still.)

Lots of people like to have some sort of inventory of this or that, so let's
pretend that a user wants to create collections using Puppy.

(S)he cannot run Tellico in Puppy because Puppy lacks not only the
required libraries, but its glibc is too low to support the libraries.

On the other hand, Datacrow will run if the user installs a recent java-jre.

Now, we should remember that both programs are majors in the field.

What do you think the user's reaction will be?

a - chuck Puppy and install a major distro, such as ubuntu, fedora, etc.,
that has all the libraries, in order to use Tellico?

b - stay with Puppy and install java and Datacrow?

If a Puppy-ready java package is readily available, I believe that the user
will continue with Puppy. That's my reasoning behind making java and qt
run-times more easily available.

BFN.

musher0

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Wed 23 Oct 2013, 08:05    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
... what important and/or useful Vale/Genie
programs can a Puppy user use to his benefit? I mean: not next year,
but today! Smile Kindly name a few!? Twisted Evil


The question was
which run-times could be needed
and not
name some "Vale/Genie" programs

If a developer would code a program using Vale/Genie then this would result in an executable file that does not need any run-time package.
In other words : there is no Vale/Genie user program, just a development program for the developer.
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2578
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Wed 23 Oct 2013, 08:09    Post subject: java  

musher0 wrote:
If a Puppy-ready java package is readily available, I believe that the user
will continue with Puppy.

...always available at http://www.java.com/fr/
or at http://www.java.com/es/
or at http://www.java.com/en/
...
There is nothing puppy specific with java.
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4332
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Wed 23 Oct 2013, 14:14    Post subject: Re: java  

L18L wrote:
musher0 wrote:
If a Puppy-ready java package is readily available, I believe that the user
will continue with Puppy.

...always available at http://www.java.com/fr/
or at http://www.java.com/es/
or at http://www.java.com/en/
...
There is nothing puppy specific with java.


No comment. We're really not on the same wave-length.

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joaomcteixeira

Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Portugal

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct 2013, 03:20    Post subject:  

Quickpet brings already JAVA to the easy install and also Qt (tough I never tried to install those from Quickpet)

http://ns1.murga-projects.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=711781&sid=17a7119f761b1ddeaf736827dbeab251
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