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 Forum index » House Training » Bugs ( Submit bugs )
Is mozilla really a good/the best browser?
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2006, 04:24    Post subject:  

Firefox 1.5 looks like this on my machine:

http://i1.tinypic.com/ru1u6h.png
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Leon

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 228
Location: Slovenia

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2006, 05:23    Post subject:  

lostdog wrote:
Some suggested the same post in a diferent thread. I followed the instructions to the letter, and when I restarted firefox, there was no change. The tool bar, menu and url bar all still had the tiny fonts.

This is the path to Firefox user configuration file on my computer:

root/.mozilla/firefox/zezfkl57.default/chrome/userChrome.ss

'zezfkl57.default' directory could have a different name.

Could you post here the path to your userChrome.ss file and its contents?
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lior2b


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 97
Location: The Holy Land

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2006, 08:40    Post subject:  

My take on why Firerfox should be the default browser.

I came across this:
Quote:
Paul, as a non-mainline distributer who needed to chose between Epiphany and Firefox and has chosen Firefox, I feel obliged to answer why we did so.

The only really important reason was marketing. There is already a huge marketing force behind Firefox everywhere in the world (most of it free evangelism by journalists), it being the main rival of the MS/IE monopoly. With shipping Firefox (and mentioning it in our marketing material), we are building on that marketing wave. So many people have heard about Firefox these days that we will alienate the want-to-be-different users if we donít ship that and ship some GNOME-y thing called Epiphany that they have not heard about. This also reminds me of a dialog with Anna in Stuttgart. She told me that (some of) the test subjects had no problem associating the firefox logo with a web browser: they had already seen it!

(Source: http://www.advogato.org/person/roozbeh/diary.html?start=103)

So: 1) Marketing. Lots of (windows) people heard of/used Firefox. Including Firefox in the feature list may drive people to try Puppy.
2) Active development- Firefox is being developed all the time. Thanks to the built in update feature, Puppy's browsing experience will be the best the latest technology can offer.
3) i18n and l10n (Internationlization and Localization)- True, most of Puppy's applications don't support i18n and l10n. IMO, the browser program, being one of the most important parts of Puppy, supporting i18n will be a major advantage.
4) Extensibility. Firefox's extensions database is huge and it's ability to easily install them may cover up for Puppy's lack of some features.
*) I can probably add some more here... feel free to add your reasons...

Just my two cents...

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lostdog

Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2006, 13:02    Post subject:  

This is my user chrome file. The fonts are still tiny, and hard to read.

Quote:
/*
* Edit this file and copy it as userChrome.css into your
* profile-directory/chrome/
*/

/*
* This file can be used to customize the look of Mozilla's user interface
* You should consider using !important on rules which you want to
* override default settings.
*/

/*
* Do not remove the @namespace line -- it's required for correct functioning
*/
@namespace url("http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul"); /* set default namespace to XUL */


/*
* Some possible accessibility enhancements:
*/
/*
* Make all the default font sizes 20 pt:
*
* * {
* font-size: 20pt !important
* }
*/
/*
* Make menu items in particular 20 pt instead of the default size:
*
* menupopup > * {
* font-size: 20pt !important
* }
*/
/*
* Give the Location (URL) Bar a fixed-width font
*
* #urlbar {
* font-family: monospace !important;
* }
*/

/*
* Eliminate the throbber and its annoying movement:
*
* #throbber-box {
* display: none !important;
* }
*/

/*
* For more examples see http://www.mozilla.org/unix/customizing.html
*/


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Leon

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 228
Location: Slovenia

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2006, 14:49    Post subject:  

lostdog wrote:
This is my user chrome file. The fonts are still tiny, and hard to read.

Your font settings are inside the comment signs.

You can see the warning in my instructions at:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=6722

Leon wrote:
Warning
The font size settings must be outside of comment signs '/*' and '*/'. Here is a comment example:
/*
This text is comment.
*/

To fix your menu font settings:
- Close Firefox.
- Open your userChrome.css file file with editor. Move the cursor to the end of file and press Enter to start new line.
- Copy the text from the following code section and pase it to the end of your userChrome.css file and press Enter to add one additional blank new line at the end of file. I think that 12pt as font-size value will be enough. If not then you just increase the value. For font-family value Tahoma is good choice also.

Code:
/*
Menu font settings
*/

* {font-size: 12pt !important;}
* {font-family: Arial !important;}

/*
End of userChrome.css
*/

- Save the file and start Firefox.
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lostdog

Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2006, 18:53    Post subject:  

Leon, Thanks. Guess I just don't have a good grasp on the comments in linux. Your last post here helped me get the fonts large enough for me to read. Thanks again.

I'm not known as lostdog for nothing ya know Laughing

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Leon

Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 228
Location: Slovenia

PostPosted: Mon 20 Mar 2006, 19:57    Post subject:  

lostdog wrote:
Guess I just don't have a good grasp on the comments in linux.
Or it could be that my instructions at:
http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=6722
was not clear enough.
I updated my instructions and suggested adding menu font settings at the end of userChrome.css file.

lostdog wrote:
I'm not known as lostdog for nothing ya know
lostdog's experiences could be very useful for other lostdogs.

I am glad that you solved the problem.
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reasonit

Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun 26 Mar 2006, 08:43    Post subject:  

my support goes to Opera here.
Though I respect whoever wants mozilla to be default, but incase you ppl don't know, a few thinsg about Opera:
1. full featured- plennnnty of features
2. very very Light and fast. just try all 3 browsers on a PIII ubuntu
3. Download manager included resume supprt
4. Irc client
5. email client
6. rss reader.
7. Looks 1000x better
8. smaller than firefox or mozilla.

Seriously just by using Opera instead of mozilla, rss, a seperate irc client you could easily save 5-10mb , i think.
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peppyy


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 429
Location: VT USA

PostPosted: Mon 09 Oct 2006, 16:29    Post subject: Speed tests.  

I am sure it depends greatly on the actuall connection and the sites you are viewing but I ran a couple tests on the same server at different times of day with 3 browsers.

Strangely enough, Mozilla cameout on the bottom consistantly with Opera only slightly faster and Firefox was a clear winner each time. The tests were run with all 3 browsers open full screen on the same server with cache cleared. This test includes a very large text doccument and a large compressed JPG image. The averages for each browser in 5 tests were within about 10%. these were download only tests with no java.

I have a high speed DSL connection and am currently running 2.0.1 on a 900mhz t22 thinkpad with 512mb ram and a harddrive install.

I have been using Opera for over a week and love it for certain sites but I have decided that there are several issues that they have to work out before I would make it my main browser. My main objection is that it does not play well with yahoo, my primary email and it causes too many repetive tasks that can be automated in firefox. Each of these fine browsers has their place and I am hard pressed to find a replacement for mozilla composer.

For now I remain a Firefox Fan.
Here are my results.
speed.jpg
 Description   Browser speed tests
 Filesize   64.3 KB
 Viewed   768 Time(s)

speed.jpg


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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon 09 Oct 2006, 23:29    Post subject:  

Great stats. Although there is another measure that it's more difficult to get but sometimes more important.

Perceived speed: When does the page gives enough detail for the user to start working with it.

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Tue 10 Oct 2006, 02:46    Post subject:  

Smile Very good point Rarsa

Opera may (according to some test singers) be the fastest but having to work it out (it used to be simpler) slows it.
Flock (in beta) is an effort to work out but has integrated blog tools and Flickr image tools
Firefox is simplest (of the major browsers) nothing to learn
HV3 - not much to go wrong - so simple (still in development)
Seamonkey - easy enough when you are used to it (like anything)
. . . also composer, email and address book is fast

People prefer Firefox (or GNU IceWeasel) therefore it is fast enough.

A second here or there is geek speak. Most people put up with IE - which I hear is improving. I tried it recently on a Vista beta - did not feel simple, so it was slow to use. Usability was poor.

On my 1Gig Keydrive (really cheap now guys), I have Firefox portable app. On a Windows computer I can open a secure Firefox with my bookmarks. That is sweet and feels fast.
http://portableapps.com/

My most strange experience was coming to this forum from a Puppy command line browser (sorry forget name) I got here and posted. Never again! It was not slow - just the page display output was so weird . . .

"Perceivied speed" - too right.

Right now using Seamonkey

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peppyy


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 429
Location: VT USA

PostPosted: Tue 10 Oct 2006, 10:51    Post subject:  

I am sure that these browsers all operate differently on a dialup connection. I have no modem at the moment in this machine totest with although I do also have dialup access. I may be able to do some testing on another machine sometime in the future (When I am snowed in) Smile At the kmoment I am looking to build in the best possible wireless I can and an external antenna jack for long range, maybe a 200mw prism minipci.

I first switched to firefox in win98 on a dialup connection because it was about 30% faster in that situation. I have been a fan ever since. I really wish that they would come up with firefox composer and then I would have a favorite web utility but for now I don't mind having several.

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vern72023

Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Jacksonville Fl

PostPosted: Tue 10 Oct 2006, 14:34    Post subject: Perceived Speed  

I wondered what it would be like to compare loading puppylinux.org with images and without so i tried both and surprisingly got the following result
with images 9sec
w/out 16secs
with 18secs
w/out 9secs
with 10secs
with 16secs
with 7secs
with 15secs

all within the space of 10minutes
The problem with tests is the second by second changes in the largest single variable - network traffic - so establishing real baseline is not possible without having at least 2 or more seperate machines runnning at regularly timed intervals over at least a 72hours

The main delimiter as I see it given Puppy's stated taget is the size of the programs that are contained within the pup file

and on that basis I think SeaMonkey at 16MB for Browser/Mail/Composer combine has the samllest effective footprint.

Sure Firefox or Opera are smaller as browsers but add in the other functionality and added libs required and they are nowhere near the size, or the bang for the buck

George

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Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Tue 10 Oct 2006, 16:40    Post subject:  

Even after adding QT Opera still comes in smaller than Seamonkey and only leaves out the html editor. I edit html using Bluefish so that doesn't bother me. One smaller issue is that Gasim depends on Mozilla ssl libs to work with MSN. Again, I don't use MSN so it doesn't bother me. Now since there are other programs I use that depend on having QT installed (Scribus) it becomes an even bigger bargain. So if I had to choose only one browser, based on size to utility, it would definately be Opera.

My main complaint, and I'm not alone here, is that Opera is not open source. I've been sitting the fence on dropping it out of Grafpup for that reason. There are some unresolved issues that may very well have been fixed by now if the code were released. So in the future you may see me using Gnuzilla.

Another plus for Seamonkey and Mozilla is the ability to use different profiles, so on a single user system different people could have their own email, bookmarks, extensions, etc. I used this feature for a while so each family member could have things separate, before getting a true multi-user environment up and running in Grafpup.

One thing I would like to see Puppy incorporate in the future is a text only browser for the console environment. Elinks and Links are both stable and full featured, and Netrik is looking interesting if development gets a bit further along. It's just very handy to look things up quickly without having to start up the big slow graphical browser or deal with all kinds of garbage content on the net like Flash, audio, and huge background images. I get a lot more work done when I can get in and out quickly with just the text I wen looking for.

Nathan

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vern72023

Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 158
Location: Jacksonville Fl

PostPosted: Tue 10 Oct 2006, 17:11    Post subject:  

I would have too second that Nathan
-- only trouble is that a lot of users would not recognise a browser as a vrowser if it was text only Smile

ah the joys of old age and memories of 2400 modems

George

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