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Touch - An Evolutionary Start by Ubuntu
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep 2013, 22:24    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
Q5sys, there is development. Sorry they wont share with you.

But, as noted, using data which exist in central databases isn't a matter of whether its PC integration. Its a matter of device integration as is pointed out.

You are the Med Industry Expert for the person(s) you represent. Surely you are also aware of the changes, the development and the testing underway.

I'm a little confused by your quest in this thread. Are you looking for Touch solutions in Medicine? Are you looking for a particular solution for a specific department in Johns Hopkin University Hospital, its University, or one of the myriad of Drug Stores in the JHUHC community. And why is a druggist who works somewhere concerned at all about what technology he is going to be given? or are you suggesting he is unhappy with what he has and would like a different technology? How can we help you best? And please ask this to the community because there may be ideas to help that you haven't thought of?

Share what you think will enlighten us.


Wait hold on a second... You're claiming Johns Hopkins has a solution that they are not sharing with their own IT department? They are actively looking for a solution to the BYOD problem with respect to their internal networks.
They have not found a solution and are looking for one. Their primary concern is medical providers using iOS and Android devices on the network while conducting their work.

Had you even bothered to read my posts earlier you would have understood that my friend who works for JH, is in the IT department. He, and the entire IT staff is concerned about this issue, because there is no current solution that answers their problems.

You have made claims that there is a solution, and that they know what it is. I'd be fascinated to know how you are aware of things that Johns Hopkins is doing in the realm of IT that Johns Hopkins IT staff is unaware of.
Seriously if you know of something, give Stephanie, Alan, or Darren a call. I am more than willing to give you their phone numbers if you'd like to give them a call and inform them of whatever knowledge you claim to have.
I'm sure they'd love to know what 'wonder solution' you know about.
Since you apparently are refusing to share it here, would you like to share it with them directly?


The major issue with BYOD mobile devices in the Medical system is the fact that the hospital has no control over data once it hits the device. Different applications have different permissions. Many apps have permissions on the device that are completely pointless other than to give the developer as much info as possible on the device and what its used for. I had a text editor on my phone once that could read and access full SMS message history along with full network access, etc. There's no reason a text editor should be touching anything other than the SD card. But the application had those permissions so it'd do whatever it wanted.
This is a problem because it means anyone who walks into the hospital with a mobile device and tries to do hospital related work on it, has the possibility of leaking hospital data (whether patient, insurance, anything) to a 3rd party. There is nothing network side that can prevent an application on a mobile device from sending data out.
While IT could attempt to create a solution for common programs, the number of applications available in the app stores is so vast they would never be able to find a solution for every one.

Going the Android/iOS route for a mobile devices (even non BYOD) are still rife with problems. After a meeting the other day, I recommended they invest in Vivaldi Tablets so that they can build it into their existing framework. Afterall, since that's a full linux distro, it gives them the ability to easily tailor it to their exact specific needs.

For the record, I'm not a Med Industry Expert. I'm an IT Security Consultant. My friend who works at JH as the IT tech for the pharmacy - I've known for years. He's brought me in on a few meetings to pitch ideas. And its from those meetings that I've gathered their problem with the current software offerings.

I think it deserves to be repeated...
q5sys wrote:
I'll think you said it best in the LHP thread.
gcmartin wrote:
If you have a link, you could post it here in this thread.
Others would benefit and we could begin to spread the word.


Share what you know... or admit that you dont know anything. I dont care which of those two you choose... But please choose one of them. Dont BS us and act like you know something if you really dont. If you're 'Here to help'. Then help.

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2013, 03:09    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
I had a text editor on my phone once that could read and access full SMS message history along with full network access, etc. There's no reason a text editor should be touching anything other than the SD card. But the application had those permissions so it'd do whatever it wanted.

Google admitted to collecting SMS message info. I'm fairly sure the various android keyboards send out info. Google's position, as expressed nicely by Eric Schmidt: "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place." uh..gee thanks, Eric.

Maybe you could contact Mark $Zuckerberg$ for assistance Smile
(he can help monetize your network)

re: Vivaldi: looks like a linux KDE nightmare
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 1879
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2013, 03:23    Post subject:  

jpeps wrote:
re: Vivaldi: looks like a linux KDE nightmare

Please explain why is it a nightmare?

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep 2013, 03:45    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
jpeps wrote:
re: Vivaldi: looks like a linux KDE nightmare

Please explain why is it a nightmare?


Looks like they finally have a prototype as of June, but still struggling with it:

*X11: running, still toying with opengl
*Still waiting on a pair of drivers

"Which means we are finally, after months of unexpected delays (it's amazing how many different ways a PCB can be done in not-quite-the-right way ...)"
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jpeps

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PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2013, 02:38    Post subject:  

Just ran across this message regarding mobile device/cloud issue:

"Long story short, we had to let one of our employees go due to theft. He was given access to a gmail account that we added job details to. the problem is that I thought changing the account password would mean that the events and their details would be deleted on his phone. Since I have a spare phone that is set up just like his, I see that this did nothing, I can still access the events and their details... then I went into the gmail and deleted all events and details (I thought long and hard about this one) but did it anyway since it was a must. STILL the event and details are accessible on this phone.."
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2013, 13:04    Post subject:  

As a courtesy to @Q5sys. You have a habit of twisting as you try derailing discussions in your past. "IF NO ONE IS SHARING WITH YOU THERE, LOOK ELSEWHERE AS ITS ALL OVER THE AREA AROUND YOU!" If you're not satisfied with what I share ask the forum and cut the crap. I have "touch" upon the how this touch technology is changing stuff. You came in as one who consults in the medical industry in meetings, yet you say, yourself, otherwise....hummm? How does one Consult and present to a medical group. yet feel they are not a part of??? "A little embarrassing", I think, of you.

The following is an article you may find informational
We don't necessarily need a comment about this here, but, if this helps you as you try to assist in the medical industry, use it to your advantage. This thread is not about Medical Industry direction(s).

I am not that interested in the pro-con discussions about technology. "The use ...", is where the industry is headed and I/we DONT have controls. But, we can envision how to exploit technology for the things we need and use.

This thread started in presenting the work of one Linux group's plans in exploiting technology for useful purposes.

Hope this helps

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri 13 Sep 2013, 15:59    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:

The following is an article you may find informational


They use a private network accessible only in-house via WiFi. They could use WiFi only devices. They could also restrict where the devices may be used. ( I think this use of devices was already noted as a non-issue above)


"As pharmacists switched floors to check on various patients, the iPad could lose Internet access and connection with the hospital’s virtual private network"

gcmartin: For sure, mobile touchpads offer lots of advantages if you can get around the security issues. We're not talking about the Edge, though.
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep 2013, 12:50    Post subject:  

jpeps wrote:
They use a private network accessible only in-house via WiFi. .. For sure, mobile touchpads offer lots of advantages if you can get around the security issues. ... .
I agree with your insights on this. A closed network is a well understood form of security in corporate world. Thx.
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep 2013, 14:05    Post subject: Touch - An Evolutionary Start by Ubuntu  

gcmartin wrote:
Quote:
The following is an article you may find informational
We don't necessarily need a comment about this here, but, if this helps you as you try to assist in the medical industry, use it to your advantage. This thread is not about Medical Industry direction(s).


This article touched on some usability issues regarding the iPad in the hospital environment, for instance:
Quote:
The iPad keyboard also proved a limiting factor, as no external keyboard devices were used in the study, and the onboard keyboard was considered small. The connectivity problems prompted researchers to investigate other mobile technology offerings, including other types of tablet devices, as well as notebook computers...


Since the Ubuntu Edge was designed to dock to a monitor to operate as a PC, the keyboard issue could be resolved by running an on-screen keyboard --especially if that monitor was, in fact, a touch screen. That said, there are other Android smartphones being produced now with a hdmi connection that would allow hook up to a TV or monitor:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/droid-meets-hdmi-how-and-why-to-connect-your-android-phone-to-your-tv/

The bottom line is that it really doesn't matter who produces the hardware, just that it works, so that the health care industry benefits in terms of allowing the professionals to do their work efficiently... -- without being frustrated for example by a virtual keyboard that require one to have fingers and thumbs the size of q-tips in order to use it effectively. Rolling Eyes

Monsie

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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep 2013, 14:38    Post subject:  

I think until voice or touch is anywhere near useful and reliable, we will still be using a 104/105-key keyboard. touch relies on blood still flowing in your arm (which after 5 words it wont be), while voice requires reliable software that can recognize words, even with a foreign accent. Most software work better with big and complicated words and suck at small words. Luckly that helps for doctors who aren't good at spelling fancy Latin names for medications, but isn't for someone telling their PDA with a cellular phone built-in (aka "smartphone") to call a taxi.
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jpeps

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PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep 2013, 18:08    Post subject: Re: Touch - An Evolutionary Start by Ubuntu  

Monsie wrote:
terms of allowing the professionals to do their work efficiently... -- without being frustrated for example by a virtual keyboard that require one to have fingers and thumbs the size of q-tips in order to use it effectively. Rolling Eyes

Monsie


http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88749

Much of the professional usage will be designed around a UI where you mostly click things, or fill in simple forms where the virtual keyboard is more than adequate. Watch an experienced user with a smartphone...it takes some practice, but so does using a conventional keyboard.
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
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Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep 2013, 23:02    Post subject: Re: Touch - An Evolutionary Start by Ubuntu  

jpeps wrote:
Monsie wrote:
terms of allowing the professionals to do their work efficiently... -- without being frustrated for example by a virtual keyboard that require one to have fingers and thumbs the size of q-tips in order to use it effectively. Rolling Eyes

Monsie


http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88749

Much of the professional usage will be designed around a UI where you mostly click things, or fill in simple forms where the virtual keyboard is more than adequate. Watch an experienced user with a smartphone...it takes some practice, but so does using a conventional keyboard.


I agree, there are many people who are much more adept at using the keyboard on a smartphone than myself, but I am guessing there are a significant number of other users who also feel my pain Sad And, I will add in another factor that slows me down: word prediction. I find it is often way off target and forces me to go back to make corrections or choose other terminology. While I think the technology is desirable, it still needs improvement. So in terms of health care delivery, I don't want to hear of complaints from professionals who feel frustrated by certain features or have usability issues with the hardware, because that could potentially affect the quality of health care that is provided...

Monsie

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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 14 Sep 2013, 23:28    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
I am not that interested in the pro-con discussions about technology. "The use ...", is where the industry is headed and I/we DONT have controls. But, we can envision how to exploit technology for the things we need and use.


Well since you don't control what other people talk about, you can just ignore the comments about the pros-cons. Or you can stomp your feet, have a temper tantrum and ask that this thread be deleted. I'll leave that choice to you.

Anyone who chooses to ignore discussions about the Pro and Cons of a technology is blinding themselves to a great wealth of information. The discussion of Pros and Cons is what helps shape where technology goes; it helps technology overcome issues which it faces early in its adoption as well as shape the publics view and adoption of that technology. Discussion about the 'use' of a technology without discussing its actual applications and the result of those applications is meaningless.

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jpeps

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Sep 2013, 01:06    Post subject: Re: Touch - An Evolutionary Start by Ubuntu  

Monsie wrote:
So in terms of health care delivery, I don't want to hear of complaints from professionals who feel frustrated by certain features or have usability issues with the hardware, because that could potentially affect the quality of health care that is provided...

Monsie


You mean like when the surgical procedure is automatically filled in after the surgeon enters the first two letters?
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
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Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Sun 15 Sep 2013, 02:15    Post subject: Re: Touch - An Evolutionary Start by Ubuntu  

jpeps wrote:
Monsie wrote:
So in terms of health care delivery, I don't want to hear of complaints from professionals who feel frustrated by certain features or have usability issues with the hardware, because that could potentially affect the quality of health care that is provided...

Monsie


You mean like when the surgical procedure is automatically filled in after the surgeon enters the first two letters?


Laughing

Seriously, yes, conceivably this could pose a problem: e.g. it turns out the recommended bone graft was not performed on Mr. Smith because the chart said the patient had a bowell obstruction --so much for the accuracy of word prediction... Sad

Let's consider typos... The letters R + T are next to each other on the QWERTY layout. If it is a challenge to use the keyboard on a smartphone, it's easy to make a mistake in a report, for instance: the recommendation is that the patient needs rest when the recommendation was supposed to read that the patient needs a test...

At first glance, this might seem like I am stretching the point, but hey, we are all human... and sometimes we feel tired and overworked, and, stuff happens... Shocked

So, this brings me back to my point about the usefulness of a device like the Ubuntu Edge which could be plugged in to extra monitors on the hospital floor. Such monitors would not only allow for a large on-screen keyboard, but obviously be useful for image enhancements, as well as other data input.

Monsie

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Last edited by Monsie on Sun 15 Sep 2013, 02:35; edited 1 time in total
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