Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Tue 29 Jul 2014, 13:05
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Puppy - A Dog's Breakfast
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 3 [38 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
OnAirPad

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 17:23    Post subject:  Puppy - A Dog's Breakfast
Subject description: Puppy is The best OS but it looks like a dog's breakfast
 

I am a disgruntled MS windows user, who would like nothing better than to dump it all and move over to Linux.
For years I have trawled thru the distros out there but I always come back to Puppy, it is the only one which actually delivers performance, compactness, and Just works. But I have some gripes.
Native Puppy looks like a dogs breakfast, its amateurish, menus are cluttered, stuffed full of incomprehensible cr#p, lacking structure, and I have to say I hate that stupid dog icon.

Dont get me wrong I really think the underlying code is incredible, genius even, but the GUI is corny, cluttered and unappealing. Every new release comes with a random choice of icons, windows managers and backgrounds like it was thrown together at the last minute. It reminds me of visiting the home of some DIY enthusiast who has done his own crazy paving, garden carpentry and indoor decorative brickwork... B&Q all over it.

And then we come to the Puplets - "Pimp My Pup", every single one is some kind of overdriven assualt on the senses, like walking into peoples front rooms and looking at their collection of china dolls, holiday souvenirs or general incomprehensible clutter, or in the worste puplet cases its like walking into a sex workers bedroom with the red lights on and the nylon seethru curtains, and wondering where they all are coming from...

My point is that Puppy as an OS deserves better than this, underneath the hood it is light years ahead of every other linux distro out there, it is based on BKs genius, but it deserves a more layered organized structure, it deserves crisp professional icons, a more appealing look and feel rather than an appalling look and feel.

I can hear you all now coming back on the defensive but I am not capable of doing this and I do not think this is a single handed DIY undertaking, the Puppy community should lose its steroid-amateur-geekiness and get some qualified professional help to do justice to the underlying code with the interface that it deserves...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 689
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 17:42    Post subject:  

Agree with many of your sentiments.

Part of the speed and lightness is because of the crappiness of the looks. Looks cost.

Having said that, have you looked at Carolina or Macpup derivatives. If you look at those and still think it looks amateurish etc, then you can't be pleased Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
OnAirPad

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 17:55    Post subject:  

In my opinion Macpup looked promising some years ago but I think it lost the plot with the E17 interface, plus every new release seems to try and out do the last with garish OTT graphics. And by the way when I talked about professional help I was meaning qualified industrial / human interface designers - but not necessarily paid help Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
OnAirPad

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 18:10    Post subject:  

And just as a PS I am 100% sure the crappy look is not linked to the interface speed, from what I have seen a nice crisp, (non-blurry) layered interface could easily be made with no sacrifice of performance. It could literally blow away every other distro due to the fantastic work already done on the code.
Otherwise Puppy will always be in the shadow of bigger bloated distros which look good and are more easy to approach. And that would be tragic. Puppy is the best engine and drivetrain, it just needs the matching bodywork to do it justice. (ie not a Holden with go faster stripes, a superfluous tail wing, luminous metallic paintwork with matching striped seats...)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2773
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 18:33    Post subject:  

I agree. JWM looks like Win95. Theme it and it looks like Win98SE with the Plus Pack... and I'm being kind.

Yeah the icons are a little nicer and there's plenty of color to be had... but it still looks, well, old. I don't know how much of that is stripped-out flashy bits from JWM, and how much of that is the Puppy-devs-are-not-necessarily-artistic quotient...

Even my mother thinks that Puppy looks like it's from the mid 1990s. She uses WinXP right now, with the "Classic" Theme (that really DOES look like Win98 -- she likes it -- I have NO idea why)...!

Definitely an issue here.

GNOME and MATE and XFCE and --IIRC-- even KDE use a lot of system resources. LXDE is lighter but --can't speak for anyone else-- LXDE and I don't get along very well. FLWM I don't know anything about. IceWM is very lightweight and therefore runs like a bat outta YouKnowWhere but is hideous with default config -- it can be improved quickly and easily with themes -- but the choice of themes right now is basically one or two and then the HUGE package that's everything-and-the-kitchen-sink. All are at http://puppy.b0x.me/ which is a handy site to have.

...the one super duper pretty config I've seen of JWM is a pile of code that one of our French members, Argolance, developed that sits on top of JWM and makes it quite nice looking IMO -- as long as you like Art Deco Wink He calls it 2PDE. He's got a Puplet that uses it, ToOpPy, which I tried out. It's beautiful Very Happy

Personally? I vote for IceWM. Sure it looks like poo with the default theme, but it's easy to work with and lighter than feathers -- and when there's a decent selection of themes, the basic/default config doesn't really matter -- just tack on something that makes it look pretty and the whole world smiles as a result Wink

_________________
Loving X-Slacko 1.1! Get the PetGet patch on pg8; it's important.
Next system will be an HP MOCA-AR + Core2Duo in an innovative case... if I ever get off my butt and build it Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
OnAirPad

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 18:54    Post subject:  

Maybe I am brainwashed by my exposure to microsoft but for one thing I would prefer a more simple overview to the menus where you have to dig deep to get to the partition manger for example. that makes it more easy for normal users. because at the upper levels it just shows the most common choices for common tasks.
I would like a much more predictable standard choice of attractive themes, not OTT, something in line with a Puppy brand. clean and crisp.
Bigger icons maybe spread out over the screen as an entry point or maybe not thats just one approach. I quite like the approach of the unity type desktop.
A choice on internet browser and office suite when you first click the icons, personally I do not think these should be included in the distro, just the links to the choice of what you want.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 689
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 20:12    Post subject:  

Quote:
I am 100% sure the crappy look is not linked to the interface speed


Well it kind of is. Obviously a beautiful KDE interface is heavier and takes up more resources than a lightweight window manager as puppy uses.

I personally use Saluki and Carolina puppies, because they suit my taste better than regular puppies, but I have certainly noticed a difference in speed in using them, due to those using XFCE.

RE the menus, in regular puppies, I still think Lucid 5.28 had the best layout. A big part of the problem with many puppies is that they tend to try to have everything in them, which adds to the clutter. Some like it, like a swiss army knife, and some don't. Each to their own.

Lucid didn't come with a browser as you are asking for, you had to select which you wanted to use and it downloaded and installed it for you. I liked that approach. I remember in the development stages there was a lot of argument of whether this was a good idea or not. A lot of people like the idea that puppy works for most tasks out of the box. Not having a browser, or office apps means it isn't complete OOTB.


Quote:
ie not a Holden with go faster stripes, a superfluous tail wing, luminous metallic paintwork with matching striped seats..

You must live near me. Your forgot the subwoofer tho. !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2407
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 21 Aug 2013, 20:40    Post subject: Re: Puppy - A Dogs Breakfast
Subject description: Puppy is The best OS but it looks like a dogs breakfast
 

OnAirPad wrote:
"Pimp My Pup", every single one is some kind of overdriven assualt on the senses, like walking into peoples front rooms and looking at their collection of china dolls, holiday souvenirs or general incomprehensible clutter, or in the worste puplet cases its like walking into a sex workers bedroom with the red lights on and the nylon seethru curtains, and wondering where they all are coming from...

it deserves crisp professional icons, a more appealing look and feel rather than an appalling look and feel.
Just to give us an idea of what you like, are there any pics in this other thread that you like the look of?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=4001
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3956
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Thu 22 Aug 2013, 09:43    Post subject:  

Why want it beautiful ?
Microsoft employees each day pay 1000$ entrance fee , that made Bill that rich man that he is today .

Open source is about showing that basic works , so an employer knows that you are capable .

Other than this Universities might have an interest to start some programing projects .

HTHN
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu 22 Aug 2013, 10:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
I would prefer a more simple overview to the menus where you have to dig deep to get to the partition manger for example. that makes it more easy for normal users. because at the upper levels it just shows the most common choices for common tasks.

Sounds like exactly fitting to something I'm currently developing on and am trying to get people open minded (not only open sourced) to give something to this project or to the community or to some special guys not only in Puppy.

This is the thread.

This is the latest update.

_________________
LazY Puppy Home
The new LazY Puppy Information Centre

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3956
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Thu 22 Aug 2013, 10:03    Post subject:  

http://1.2.3.10/bmi/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/f/fc/Kesselgulasch_1.JPG/220px-Kesselgulasch_1.JPG
Gulasch rules !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu 22 Aug 2013, 10:13    Post subject:  

Karl Godt wrote:
http://1.2.3.10/bmi/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/f/fc/Kesselgulasch_1.JPG/220px-Kesselgulasch_1.JPG
Gulasch rules !

Ah ja!

So, this is what you have / want to give.

By the way: what kind of rules are the "Gulasch rules" ?

Anything to develop along - like a "red line" ?

Or are they the rules in case of the (G) erman (U) sers (L) atest (A) ltered (S) oftware and (C) onsole (H) assle ?

Let us know, Karl...

I'm (and hopefully we all are) always ready and willing to learn something new!

_________________
LazY Puppy Home
The new LazY Puppy Information Centre

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3394
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 22 Aug 2013, 21:15    Post subject:  

What works for other people doesn't always float my boat.

However there is nothing wrong with innovation, lateral or irrational
thoughts, open discussion, even a bit of Boof here on the forum.

If it makes Puppy better in the long run...that's OK.

R-S-H has delivered many well regarded projects.

He and I have had words in the past but I believe that he is basically
a nice bloke >>> with enthusiasm plus plus.

And great to see you back mate.

As for >> OnAirPad's comments I had a good laugh.
Nothing like a good shit stir.

And good on you mate.
I hope that this topic is ongoing.

Cheers to you both......Chris.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3956
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30    Post subject:  

pensioneers .. money .. time ..

hope you think about it ..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 395
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:48    Post subject: Re: Puppy - A Dog's Breakfast
Subject description: Puppy is The best OS but it looks like a dog's breakfast
 

OnAirPad wrote:
[much snippage]
I always come back to Puppy, it is the only one which actually delivers performance, compactness, and Just works. But I have some gripes.

He's got some good points.

My wants are simple, and I have no aesthetic sense, so looks don't bother me.
Functionality and easy access to information are desirable.
I am grateful to the many developers.

Primarily I use Lucid Puppy 5.28, by Playdayz and co-workers

Thanks,
Sheldon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 3 [38 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1037s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0126s) ][ GZIP on ]