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What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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Q5sys
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#61 Post by Q5sys »

koulaxizis wrote:
Q5sys wrote:If a team of people got together they could take a Official release (like Slacko), and create a ton of SFS packages so users could easily update and expand their system.

But has anyone in the community stepped forward to do this? Not yet sadly.
For puppy to grow and encompass more users, we need more people to get involved in the creation. Right now the development work is spread too thin. If I had more time, I'd be willing to pitch in, but I dont. I'm behind in the dev work I'm planning to do with Slackbones and Lighthouse.

I'm willing to help guide someone who is willing to put forth the effort to expand the offerings of Slacko.
How can we tell which is an "official" release. I, for example, could say that official release it's a Puppy without binaries from another distro. You could say "Slacko" and someone else could say "precise". If there is no a main guideline, how can we work together and do something that matters?

You say that you work on Lighthouse and Slackbones. There are so many derivatives that noone knows where to put his energy and good will to help! Users and developers are devided on one million different sides!
We know what the Official puppies are because they are the ones that Barry has claimed are official. Both Slacko and Precise are official puppy releases. The rest are just puppy releases. This has been debated before, but in the end Puppy is Barry's thing, so he gets to decide.

As for me, I focus strickly on 64bit puppies. That's why I am working with Lighthouse (what I use on my machine), Slackbones which is my test bed, and Fatdog. There is a VERY small 64 bit dev community right now. All three of those verisons are all based on Slackware and share alot of pieces.


kanellia wrote: So, my PC could never be too old for puppy but it can be too new for it?
No, you cant have a PC that's too new for puppy.
Proof: http://q5sys.info/ss/08jun13-ss2.png

starhawk
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#62 Post by starhawk »

Q5sys wrote:
kanellia wrote: So, my PC could never be too old for puppy but it can be too new for it?
No, you cant have a PC that's too new for puppy.
Proof: http://q5sys.info/ss/08jun13-ss2.png
IMO Poulsbo gets pretty close...

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sunburnt
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#63 Post by sunburnt »

R-S-H; Well said... Why are folks so resistant to the new and improved?
I think people learn a way of doing things and then get stuck in a rut.

oldyeller; Same as Volhout, would like to advise Puppy, but Mint is easier to use.
Wait a minute.!!! Isn`t that supposed to be Puppy`s mantra? What happened guys?
.

jpeps
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#64 Post by jpeps »

sunburnt wrote:R-S-H; Well said... Why are folks so resistant to the new and improved?
.
Perhaps what some would consider "improvement" others would view as varying forms of digital abuse. Puppy offers almost unlimited opportunity for creative self-expression to the public. If nobody seems very interested in a particular self-acclaimed fork of brilliance, there just might be a reason that the creator lacks the ability to comprehend.

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#65 Post by mavrothal »

oldyeller; Same as Volhout, would like to advise Puppy, but Mint is easier to use.
Wait a minute.!!! Isn`t that supposed to be Puppy`s mantra? What happened guys?
.
The one category that Linux/GNU has failed totally is in the Desktop class (there is a lot of data and reasons for that on the web).

Mint or Slax or Arch or Puppy is not really important, because there is not really any Linux newbe user!

You either learn to use the terminal, "fight" with every update/upgrade, debug, look for "backports", compile and search the web with the right keywords for your problem or just do not use it.
Sure, I would like an Apple-like quality an MS-like backwards compatibility and every hardware driver free and open for the one (or at least unified) Linux distribution, but do not hold your breath.

Bottom line, if people are interested in linux and have already played with the command line or looked at the code in Windows or OSX, go ahead and suggest any distro/pupplet you want. If not do not push it on them, unless you are looking for a reason to visit them every day :lol:
== [url=http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]Here is how to solve your[/url] [url=https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html]Linux problems fast[/url] ==

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#66 Post by jpeps »

mavrothal wrote:
You either learn to use the terminal, "fight" with every update/upgrade, debug, look for "backports", compile and search the web with the right keywords for your problem or just do not use it.
That's what makes it so much fun, you can adapt it endlessly. If you only use a device or computer where everything is laid out for you, there's no room for creative expression beside loading various wallpapers. It's as boring as a television...and things don't get much worse than that. Without basic scripting and compiling skills, using linux must be a pretty dull and frustrating endeavor.

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#67 Post by R-S-H »

sunburnt wrote:I think people learn a way of doing things and then get stuck in a rut.
Yes, I can confirm this!

I've been faced to this at least once a day, when I'm spending time with other people.

But there is one exception: my girlfriend!

Like me, she loves to learn new things and also doing things another way as usual.

Aged 40 she did learn to play drums -this is now about six years ago- besides this she did learn also to work on the computers at her working place (she's a CAD designer) left-handed.

So, she's got two computers, one for the right hand and one for the left hand... :lol:

The ugliest thing I met in this 'stuck-in-a-rut'-behavior are people like this:

- they do know about Puppy and also Linux in general
- they are using their computers most of the time to download tons of gig-bytes of illegal music, movies and or software
- they neither can use Photoshop nor they are able to work on an MS Word document, but they stuck in their rut of using their illegal Windows 7 versions and the cracked Photoshop

And, hey, do you know what?

I did face exactly this behavior on 'Apple'-guys... :shock:

If my Puppy wouldn't be so LazY I would send 'em out to bite them in their ... ... ... :lol:
[b][url=http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com]LazY Puppy Home
The new LazY Puppy Information Centre[/url][/b]

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#68 Post by jpeps »

R-S-H wrote:
sunburnt wrote:I think people learn a way of doing things and then get stuck in a rut.
But there is one exception: my girlfriend!

Like me...
why am I not surprised?

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greengeek
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#69 Post by greengeek »

jpeps wrote:Without basic scripting and compiling skills, using linux must be a pretty dull and frustrating endeavor.
I don't find it that way at all. I have never compiled anything, and would rate my scripting skills as 0.1% or less (All I can do is copy/edit other peoples offerings...). However, despite those shortcomings I find the time I spend using Puppy Linux to be the most interesting and satisfying part of my day.

Thanks to the great foundation laid by BK, and the amazing assistance from others on this forum I can use Linux to do things I never could with Windows - eg: having multiple versions on one usb stick, and remastering the distro as I want it to be.

I find Puppy to be quite modular, and it gives me a feeling of being in control. Very, very satisfying. And like I said before - I totally LOVE the variety of Puppies available. I don't care what is "official" and what is not - I don't care how "fat" or "skinny" a puppy is - I love each of them, warts and all.

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#70 Post by jpeps »

greengeek wrote:
Thanks to the great foundation laid by BK, and the amazing assistance from others on this forum I can use Linux to do things I never could with Windows - eg: having multiple versions on one usb stick, and remastering the distro as I want it to be.
I'd say you more than qualify for having learned the basics :)

Some simple scripting and compiling will be an easy next step. It's all fun

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mavrothal
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#71 Post by mavrothal »

jpeps wrote:
mavrothal wrote:
You either learn to use the terminal, "fight" with every update/upgrade, debug, look for "backports", compile and search the web with the right keywords for your problem or just do not use it.
That's what makes it so much fun
Oh, I agree but is not everyone's kind of fun.
Maybe for the 1-2% of the 3 billion computer users.
That's a healthy ~50 million, but if you aim for the rest 2.9 billion,...
== [url=http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]Here is how to solve your[/url] [url=https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html]Linux problems fast[/url] ==

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#72 Post by 01micko »

mavrothal wrote:Oh, I agree but is not everyone's kind of fun.
Maybe for the 1-2% of the 3 billion computer users.
That's a healthy ~50 million, but if you aim for the rest 2.9 billion,...
(I added the bold)

Hehe... and what is desktop Linux market share?

Far from that, and being totally off topic now, Linux is probably the most used kernel of modern times, smart phones, servers, supercomputers, cars, fridges, clocks; and the user is oblivious.. it is in every modern household... ahhh, the old phrase "a good OS shouldn't get in the way" ... now who said that?
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Volhout
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#73 Post by Volhout »

See, the world has changed, people notice, and don't want puppy to die .... they do see a future.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88215

Maybe there is (in the end) sufficient leverage to lift puppy up. It may be an outdated term .... puppy becomes yuppie.....

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#74 Post by mavrothal »

01micko wrote:
mavrothal wrote:Oh, I agree but is not everyone's kind of fun.
Maybe for the 1-2% of the 3 billion computer users.
That's a healthy ~50 million, but if you aim for the rest 2.9 billion,...
(I added the bold)

Hehe... and what is desktop Linux market share?
I was referring to the linux Desktop market share. (If you actually consider OS X a freeBSD variant is even smaller than BSD :shock: )
Move to servers, data centres, super computers etc and it jumps to over 50% for the category. Include Android and you have world domination :P
== [url=http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]Here is how to solve your[/url] [url=https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html]Linux problems fast[/url] ==

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#75 Post by 01micko »

Volhout wrote:See, the world has changed, people notice, and don't want puppy to die .... they do see a future.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88215

Maybe there is (in the end) sufficient leverage to lift puppy up. It may be an outdated term .... puppy becomes yuppie.....
You'll have a hard time convincing BK. He is adhered to at least rox. WM is of a different matter, he has been known to use icewm and openbox.
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access

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#76 Post by Volhout »

01micko wrote:
Volhout wrote:See, the world has changed, people notice, and don't want puppy to die .... they do see a future.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88215

Maybe there is (in the end) sufficient leverage to lift puppy up. It may be an outdated term .... puppy becomes yuppie.....
You'll have a hard time convincing BK. He is adhered to at least rox. WM is of a different matter, he has been known to use icewm and openbox.

Dear 01Micko,

I am sure a lot can be done with simple changes to the jwm/rox combo to improve, and actually I am so used to rox it's not bad at all. I do miss the tree view though. In this thread it sounds a bit like I propose to change simply everything. That is absolutely not true. There is a reason I use puppy. And I am only proposing to change where I see improvement possible. Mostly for "users". Maybe it is sufficient to embrace R-S-H's lazypup architecture to keep a small basic puppy, and have a set of SFS's dynalically loadable under desktop buttons (click first time takes a little longer since the sfs loads on the fly, but successive times are blazing fast). Maybe it is sufficient to restructure the menu so it has 2 modes. Expert mode shows as is. User mode shows only entries that are interesting for end users. There are so many idea's. I admire your desktop templates. I alway go to "minimal icons". Precise does not have that....
It is amazing that Barry favors JWM and there is no "desktop theme" tool. You configure JWM, then configure GTK, then assign a cursor type, then choose an icon theme. And if the developer (for Slacko that is you) has combinet a tasty set, you can create nice looking alternate desktop.
If we would keep JWM that could be somthing to improve. Have guys from the eye candy thread / my puppy is more gorgeous thread challenged to create the best JWM desktop, and collect the themes they come up with. Have these "selectable" in a new to make theme manager. Delete the individual tools, maybe in PPM as PET for the fun.
Not a zillion, just 3 or 4 would be sufficient (as long as one contains a guitar ... lol)

idea's idea's ..... plenty.

For good looks, I think macpup is a good example. Problem with macpup is that they have a good looking desktop, but once you open programs you fall back to the graphics of thos programs, and that is a large contrast sometimes (install Chromium in macpup, you will inherit the tabs from the chromium browser that heavily contrast the macpup themes).
Maybe we are in a better shape with JWM than with e17 to get homogene looks between the supported packages in the fat puppy. If users install external packages it is fine if they mismatch. But the ones that are standard in the fat release should.

- complete
- simple (less is better)
- attractive

- off topic- Another thing I am not sure JWM can do, is open every window maximized. Multiple windows would be on multiple desktops. This is very handy on smaller screens like a netbook.

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#77 Post by R-S-H »

01micko wrote:ahhh, the old phrase "a good OS shouldn't get in the way" ... now who said that?
Could have been LazY Puppy!? :lol:
Volhout wrote:There is a reason I use puppy.
Yes, over here as well! 8)
Volhout wrote:... ... And I am only proposing to change where I see improvement possible. Mostly for "users". Maybe it is sufficient to embrace R-S-H's lazypup architecture to keep a small basic puppy, and have a set of SFS's dynalically loadable under desktop buttons (click first time takes a little longer since the sfs loads on the fly, but successive times are blazing fast). Maybe it is sufficient to restructure the menu so it has 2 modes. Expert mode shows as is. User mode shows only entries that are interesting for end users. There are so many idea's. I admire your desktop templates. I alway go to "minimal icons". Precise does not have that....
It is amazing that Barry favors JWM and there is no "desktop theme" tool. ... ...
Thank you very much, really!

I'm now feeling heard, noticed and also very pleased! :)
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#78 Post by sunburnt »

jpeps; Explain...

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#79 Post by oldyeller »

Volhout wrote:
... ... And I am only proposing to change where I see improvement possible. Mostly for "users". Maybe it is sufficient to embrace R-S-H's lazypup architecture to keep a small basic puppy, and have a set of SFS's dynalically loadable under desktop buttons (click first time takes a little longer since the sfs loads on the fly, but successive times are blazing fast). Maybe it is sufficient to restructure the menu so it has 2 modes. Expert mode shows as is. User mode shows only entries that are interesting for end users. There are so many idea's. I admire your desktop templates. I alway go to "minimal icons". Precise does not have that....
It is amazing that Barry favors JWM and there is no "desktop theme" tool. ... ...
I do agree with using a menu system that will give the user a choice of what level to have. One can also use pmenu menu eidtor or one like it as well to remove and add items back in.

We should see how many here would want to do graphics and any scripting for this. My wife does all of mine except 1 or 2 of them. There is a lot of talent in Puppy land/kennels.

1) What would you want for wm?
2) What kind of backgrounds?
3) The menu system-very important (RSH menu) maybe?
4) Programs?
5) What Size of the Puppy?
6) Who we want to head this up?

One could also take from puppies some of their favorite programs and add them in like RSH menu. There is one program that can also me brought from dpup485 and modified for this as well. Take what we find as the best in some and include it.

This does not have to be an Official one.

jpeps
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#80 Post by jpeps »

oldyeller wrote:
1) What would you want for wm?
2) What kind of backgrounds?
3) The menu system-very important (RSH menu) maybe?
4) Programs?
5) What Size of the Puppy?
6) Who we want to head this up?
1: There's a variety of WMs that each have their advantages/disadvantages. That's up to the individual user to decide.
2: You can load any background you like. What's important is a good manager, which we have.
3: You can create all kinds of things...like adding huge lists of similar programs on the right click. I suppose if that was important, it would have already been instituted . Many ideas don't stand the test of time. Personally, I very rarely use the menu at all. Most people use the same few applications over and over again. I select my favorites using a bacon checkbox app I wrote, but there are many ways to access them (icons on the desktop, etc.).
4. We already have a good selection of included apps well integrated into each distribution. Everyone uses a computer for different things, so again flexibility is key. Woof became popular for that reason...access to different types of databases.
5. People are drawn to Puppy because it's small and fast. There's no need for another Ubuntu.
6. This question always comes up every time there's a similar thread (and there are a zillion similar threads). The answer has always been whoever feels like putting in the time. Forget that WE WANT has any importance at all. Generally these threads are populated mainly by a few non-developers and go nowhere for a good reason.

Someone with basic linux skills would have already adapted the first five categories on their own, and have no need for #6.

It's ironic that this thread has missed what the current "world change" has been...which involves a different type of computing that has nothing to do with any of the listed suggestions.

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