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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Votes for permanently remove Seamonkey and add Opera/Firefox
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mollo

Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jul 2013, 00:54    Post subject:  Votes for permanently remove Seamonkey and add Opera/Firefox  

I read Barry´s blog and saw in his last masterpiece he decided to include Opera Cool
I alsa read his FAQ and see the reasons for Seamonkey, anyways in my humble opinion, nowadays who uses an email client?, maybe 10% of Puppy users?, I use Hotmail and Gmail and for important mails my own one and all of them are accessed through a site using a browser so no need for an email client since lots of years ago, then comes the integrated HTML composer, here again I suppose that no more than 5% of Puppy users use that.
90% of users can live with only a browser, no need for an email client, html composer or anything else so my vote goes for a permanent removal of Seamonkey and a permanent introduction of any other browser-only Firefox, Opera, Chromium.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3517
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jul 2013, 03:40    Post subject:  

I use Firefox, thunderbird, Xfe, smm.
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DPUP5520

Joined: 16 Feb 2011
Posts: 801

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jul 2013, 04:04    Post subject:  

Although I use Firefox as my only browser with Puppy, I can see why people wouldn't want to use it since as far as I've seen it is the slowest loading starting browser on Puppy (taking upwards of 5-6 seconds to start up). As for the original question/comment I'd much prefer to see non-derivatives (main Puppies) come without a browser built in or at least a separate version without a browser as these main Puppies usually have a decent lifespan and the browsers become outdated so quickly.
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session


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 90
Location: Valley of the Sun

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jul 2013, 05:17    Post subject:  

Quote:
...nowadays who uses an email client?


Yes, and not many people are on dial-up, but more often than not, Puppy comes with a bunch of analog modem drivers. Barry has usually striven to keep his builds small and full-featured (and not rely too much on the Cloud)... Puppy derivatives are the specialized ones.

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mollo

Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jul 2013, 07:16    Post subject:  

I'm not worried about waiting 5 seconds for a cold start of Firefox but if it is too slow then what about Opera or Nightly (or something like that) anything but Seamonkey, I prefer a browser-only built from the beggining on every derivative than having to download it later, maybe Opera is the fastest one then Opera on every Puppy and Pupplet or derivative or Nightly or Chromium.

I thought analog modem driver came only in Wary...
I only use wired connection so don't care about modems or even wifi as I use to discard that module in my laptops.

I hope Barry decides to maintain the recently introduced Opera (or any other browser-only) and abandon the Seamonkey thing.
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Terryphi


Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 763
Location: West Wales, Britain.

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jul 2013, 09:42    Post subject:  

Whatever Barry decides Opera is always available for everyone. Wink

I use Opera as my primary browser but I also like to have Firefox, Chromium ... oh yes, and even Seamonkey to see what developers are producing.

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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2669
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jul 2013, 17:20    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:
I use Firefox, thunderbird, Xfe, smm.


I use FF and Tbird also.

I thought that Lucid's trick of installing the chosen browser was the way to go (the Dev doesn't need to decide, let the user decide).

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ozsouth

Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 146
Location: S.E Australia

PostPosted: Tue 16 Jul 2013, 18:59    Post subject: Browsers  

Seamonkey's 'all in one' feature is useful for older folk. I have people in their 80s who can (just) use it. Automatic attachment associations are important.
Nevertheless, if Puppy had a simple browser, Seamonkey could always be added for those who need it.
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dogle

Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jul 2013, 16:36    Post subject:  

I go along with mollo's primary logic - and with that of other posters - but disagree with his conclusion.

Sure, Seamonkey was chosen way back because it offered a compact browser/mailclient combination, and I for one haven't used an email client in years.

The way I see it:

- if you have no internet, you need neither.

- if you do have internet, you can install whatever the heck you like, so long as Puppy includes browsing/PPM capability sufficient for you to download it.

I don't much like Seamonkey's prescriptiveness and opacity, but IMHO Firefox is miles worse (and I hate it). I'm excited by the renewed interest in compact non-Mozilla stuff .... and surely, to apply Opera or Firefox like a suppository to Puppyusers is not the way to go.
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mollo

Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013, 01:18    Post subject:  

Dogle, I'm not seggesting not to being able to choose your favourite browser, as RetroTechGuy said "Let the user decide" what I'm votig for is for removing the browser that comes preinstalled in Puppy, no need for an email client for a long long time because all emails are accessed through website (not only Hotmail or Gmail but even the private ones that come through your ISP), very very very few need an HTML composer so why the need for Seamonkey as the preinstalled solution?, instead of that preinstall a browser-only (I didn't say only Firefox) and if you are so desperately in need of the whole Seamonkey thing then go for it after starting your Puppy.
If (like you said) applying Firefox or Opera to users is a "suppository" then I would prefer to apply that instead of Seamonkey because Seamonkey suppository is like 3 suppositories, one for browser and two more for unneeded/unused functions (email client and HTML composer) better one than three Smile
Slacko used to come with Opera or Firefox but I think they abandoned Opera since they switched to Next or so.
Another distro switched from Firefox/Opera to Seamonkey but that lasted very little and now they are back to Firefox or Nightly again.
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013, 03:47    Post subject:  

Funny, throughout, browser choice has always been controversial. Most distros try to offer a 'complete' solution, so SOMETHING has to go in I guess. Old old argument.
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013, 03:52    Post subject: Votes for permanently remove Seamonkey and add Opera/Firefox  

mollo,

It would be interesting to know about how many Puppy Linux users still use an e-mail client. I would try to determine this statistic first instead of offering guesses as to what it might be and using the latter as a justification for getting rid of SeaMonkey. I do use my Hotmail in conjunction with PLDF but, I configure it to run in SeaMonkey Mail and News because I like the richness and feature set found in an e-mail client. That said, I am probably in a minority of such users. One could run a separate browser and e-mail client... and I notice that the newest version of Opera does not include Opera Mail built in, rather, Opera Mail is now a separate e-mail client.

So, Opera with the separate Opera Mail client might turn out to be a useful replacement or alternative to SeaMonkey.

Monsie

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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013, 03:54    Post subject:  

I use gmail now but reserve the option to change if the service changes, always a possiblilty.
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session


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 90
Location: Valley of the Sun

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013, 05:11    Post subject:  

Quote:
...one for browser and two more for unneeded/unused functions (email client and HTML composer) better one than three


You do realize that Seamonkey is the same size as Firefox? This reminds me of the 3 calculator debate; like I said, there are Puppy derivatives that emphasize minimalism... stock Puppy is more of a funtional assortment tempered by Barry's common sense.

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Wognath

Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jul 2013, 13:28    Post subject: My vote  

In view of the strong feelings about browsers, IMHO Lucid had it right: a light browser like Dillo and an easy way to install user's choice of browser.
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