Free Software Puppy

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gameboyab
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Free Software Puppy

#1 Post by gameboyab »

Does a completely free software (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) Puppy GNU/Linux exist?
If not, I would be interested in making one. First, the Linux kernel initially in Puppy would have to be replaced with one of these (http://jxself.org/linux-libre/) kernels, which have the (proprietary) binary drivers (or 'blobs') removed. I am not aware of any other non-free software in Puppy, except for the versions of Puppy which use Opera as the browser, or have Adobe Flash pre-installed.
Not running as root is the cause of my inferiority complex.

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8-bit
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#2 Post by 8-bit »

Without some of the proprietary drivers, the ability to even connect to the internet would be lost as most of the modem and wifi drivers have proprietary software as part of them.

cthisbear
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#3 Post by cthisbear »

I might ask BK to take out all that evil proprietary stuff.

Enough I say.

I don't care if it makes it work.

Oh! the evil that men do.

::::::

And welcome to Puppy >> gameboyab.

Chris.

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gameboyab
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#4 Post by gameboyab »

8-bit wrote:Without some of the proprietary drivers, the ability to even connect to the internet would be lost as most of the modem and wifi drivers have proprietary software as part of them.
It depends on what hardware is used. There is a hardware compatibility with free software database. http://h-node.org
Usually, Atheros wireless cards work without proprietary drivers.
Not running as root is the cause of my inferiority complex.

nooby
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#5 Post by nooby »

You being this much at it. What solution have you found then to
this problem+ "Adobe Flash pre-installed"

If you install it after then what purpose was it to not have it from scratch?

You mean it will be safer to share it due to then nobody can accuse one
to use what others own the rights to? A kind of fairness or or security
of distribution. To make it less vulnerable to get legally stopped from
being shared freely?

But are there any way to get local TV station streaming to work
if one don't have Adobe Flash?

Yes I know that some TV station even use Silverlight which is very unfortunate indeed.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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gameboyab
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#6 Post by gameboyab »

Not all Puppies have Flash pre-installed, and I wouldn't install Flash afterwards, as it is non-free, user subjugating software. :(
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Here is an excellent speech about Free Software, by Bradley Kuhn, though it is two hours and four minutes long.
http://audio-video.gnu.org/audio/bradle ... -apr04.ogg

Gnash may be used as a free software Flash substitute, though not everything works on it.
If you don't care about Free Software, use a vanilla Puppy, not my (so far nonexistent) puplet. :)
Not running as root is the cause of my inferiority complex.

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gameboyab
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#7 Post by gameboyab »

cthisbear wrote:I might ask BK to take out all that evil proprietary stuff.

Enough I say.

I don't care if it makes it work.

Oh! the evil that men do.
Is this tongue-in-cheek?
My system works well with only free drivers, running Trisquel.
http://trisquel.info
Not running as root is the cause of my inferiority complex.

cthisbear
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#8 Post by cthisbear »

" Is this tongue-in-cheek? "

Never.
I allow no humour on this forum.

Chris.

bark_bark_bark
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#9 Post by bark_bark_bark »

If puppy only had free software, it would be a disaster playing my music (as they are in .mp3 and I want it that way). I also couldn't connect to the interent without a 100ft+ long ethernet cord.
....

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mavrothal
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#10 Post by mavrothal »

When it comes to audio-video codecs and hardware drivers free software has major problems (that's why for every "free" OS there is a repo operated by "someone else" that host the compatible non-free binaries... :wink: )

However, I do not see anything wrong with building a free puppy.
There are pleanty of computers out there that do not even have wireless. html5 is replacing flash in many cases (gnash can also handle very old flash files) and ogg is a pretty popular codec.

So I would say go for it (besides you do not need anyone's approval, is free remember?).
== [url=http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html]Here is how to solve your[/url] [url=https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html]Linux problems fast[/url] ==

musher0
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#11 Post by musher0 »

mavrothal wrote:When it comes to audio-video codecs and hardware drivers free software has major problems (that's why for every "free" OS there is a repo operated by "someone else" that host the compatible non-free binaries... :wink: )

However, I do not see anything wrong with building a free puppy.
There are pleanty of computers out there that do not even have wireless. html5 is replacing flash in many cases (gnash can also handle very old flash files) and ogg is a pretty popular codec.

So I would say go for it (besides you do not need anyone's approval, is free remember?).
Hi, gameboyab.

I second mavrothal. Give it at least a try. Who knows? Your "Free Puppy" could be the next major comet in the Linux sky! :)

Best wishes of success!

musher0
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

rokytnji
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#12 Post by rokytnji »

Like Mathroval I say build it and see what happens.

Some work arounds for flash that I use

http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org/

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... asemonkey/
2.2 Installation

First of all install the Greasemonkey extension for your browser and activate it. For Epiphany it is part of the Epiphany-extensions package. For GNU IceCat, Abrowser and other versions of Firefox see the Greasemonkey web page.

Probably these extensions are available in your GNU/Linux distribution as a package.

Second, install the video plugin that you prefer.

If you have downloaded version of the userscript compressed with gzip or bzip2, decompress it to get a copy of the file ready for installation.
You can use mplayer, gnome-mplayer, vlc, or whatever to play the videos as well as providing the excellent GTK Youtube Viewer that is provided in the Puppy forum to your build.



You can incorporate these items into your default build if you so wish.
I use moc and xmms usually for music players. Up to you though on how you wanna approach this.

User scripts at grease monkey has a

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/87011

Plus many more at

http://userscripts.org/

Up to you though to determine what is malicious script and what is not.

Good Luck and Happy Trails, Rok

simargl

#13 Post by simargl »

.
Last edited by simargl on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 15:14, edited 1 time in total.

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vicmz
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#14 Post by vicmz »

simargl wrote: Looks like some free GNU/Linux distributions include support for mp3's, but it depends from what county are that distibution's developers.
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/why-dont ... upport-mp3
I always viewed free software as "diet" software. :lol: Many people do have this opinion and are happier with OTB distributions like Puppy. But software patents are a strong reason to think of going libre, and a LibrePuppy in the derivatives section won't hurt anyone. :wink:
simargl wrote: ... actually html5 doesn't work quite often, so only choice is something like minitube for free software OS. I prefer to watch youtube flash videos in firefox though.
I agree. I use SeaMonkey the most, though - I just don't like its mail client and download manager (I use pwsget for large downloads).
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76948]Puppy Linux en español[/url]

bark_bark_bark
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#15 Post by bark_bark_bark »

The only thing I have to say about ogg, is that it sucks compared to more common formats.
....

musher0
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#16 Post by musher0 »

bark_bark_bark wrote:The only thing I have to say about ogg, is that it sucks compared to more common formats.
ogg is second only to flac in sound quality and it comes first if you consider the quality/size ratio, IMO.

Regards.

musher0
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

Ibidem
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#17 Post by Ibidem »

There's very few wireless cards that work with "Free" drivers--basically, many of the Atheros chips, Zydas USB stuff (now part of Atheros), and some wireless-G Broadcom hardware. And my own Atheros wireless doesn't work right with ath5k. (I forget if some of the Prism chips would work.)
In fact, there are several ethernet cards that need firmware, like my RTL8169.
mp3 support is technically available in Free software (lame, mad, mpg123 now that it's LGPL), but some argue that the patents mean that a Free distro shouldn't package it; Debian says that decoders count as free now that they have a lawyer to advise them (IIRC).

CLAM01
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#18 Post by CLAM01 »

For connectivity in free-software installations use ndiswrapper and assign the Windows-Driver to be firmware for the card. CD and DVD drives contain maker-proprietary firmware, as do all CPUs. Since free software attaches to those with no political complaints it should to net cards, too. I would, myself, not being a purist, use any freely available driver that would run the card and consider it part of the card. Purists, though, should be able to remain conscientiously pure through using ndiswrapper to insulate their systems from their cards' proprietary chipsets and drivers.

For a fully restriction-free software Puppy, and have it be a Puppy (r), BarryK would have to build a restriction-free-software building environment, like Woof, but containing only politically correct free software. Using that official free-software Puppy-builder environment builders could build as they do from Woof. and then modifiers and users could add from repositories as with all puppies. Each could decide for himself, or herself, how pure he or she wants his or her project or derivative to remain, and each user can decide if, and how much, to compromise for what he or she wants, or may be forced by his or her hardware. For example, if his or her computer has Radeon or Nvidia graphics, which cannot be changed without changing computers.

Thus, the request should be put to BK to add to all his other projects putting together an 'All Restriction Free' [ARF]? variant of Woof. I suppose we should put it to him in a prayer, since he is the God of our Puppy Linux Environment.

After having played around with the available variants of all free software linuxes I can see there is a need for a Puppy variety there. A free-software linux that, while it may be restricted by the restrictions of the free software available, would work within that restriction. I mean work as a small and live distro, smoothly and efficiently, and usably, as Puppies do.

Ibidem
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#19 Post by Ibidem »

CLAM01 wrote:For connectivity in free-software installations use ndiswrapper and assign the Windows-Driver to be firmware for the card. CD and DVD drives contain maker-proprietary firmware, as do all CPUs. Since free software attaches to those with no political complaints it should to net cards, too. I would, myself, not being a purist, use any freely available driver that would run the card and consider it part of the card. Purists, though, should be able to remain conscientiously pure through using ndiswrapper to insulate their systems from their cards' proprietary chipsets and drivers.
Nope. ndiswrapper uses proprietary drivers. List of software that does not respect the Free System Distribution Guidelines: ndiswrapper, ndisgtk
By the same token, loading replacement microcode on an old CPU is verboten, as is anything where the OS loads firmware/code that is not derived by compilation from publicly available Free/Libre source code.

I've looked at the restrictions associated with the FSF's version of "Free", and it is truly a mess. In fact, it tramples on free speech (examples to be found in the connochaetos forums).

The FSF's take seems to be somewhere between "If you don't agree with our guidelines, we don't care what you think" and "If you're not a purist, you're a traitor!"

CLAM01
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#20 Post by CLAM01 »

"hmmmm.......", as Patriot used to say.
The Puritans have taken over the Free Software Religion.

Thanks for the corrections and information, ibidem. Convening a seance I find the spirits advising me to stay pagan. And consulting my crystal ball, I see Puppy avoiding the crusaders and dodging their religious wars...

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