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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
I'm mad about Non-PAE!!!
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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donkeymilk

Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 14:08    Post subject:  I'm mad about Non-PAE!!!  

How can you not tell people this is non pae?
Puppy Distros are meant for old computers.
that is the point of them.
I'm fed up downloading megabytes of stuff only to find out it is useless on a Dell D505 Pentium M.
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oligin10

Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 189
Location: Buckeye State, USA

PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 14:39    Post subject: Read before you download  

Just a suggestion. There are plenty of versions of Puppy. Read before you take your time to download. Some are PAE, some aren't. Thanks, Rob
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11034
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 16:19    Post subject:  

Hmm, I was unaware that the whole point of Puppy was to keep old computers going. Thanks for setting me straight. What should I use in new computers?
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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 18:06    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
What should I use in new computers?


Your credit card. Laughing

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Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 698
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 20:13    Post subject:  

Most Puppies ARE non-PAE, and that is why it works so well on most old computers.

Some of the newest Puppies have both PAE and non-PAE builds, and it is usually pretty clearly labelled as such.

What did you download?

What are you looking for? For an older machine like that, have a look at Wary or Classic Pup.

Classic:

http://www.smokey01.com/ttuuxxx/2.14X/iso-sfs/214X-top10.iso

Wary:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/wary-5.5/wary-5.5.iso

Hope that helps
Paul
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 20:49    Post subject:  

rjbrewer wrote:
Flash wrote:
What should I use in new computers?


Your credit card. Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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oldyeller


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 781
Location: Mishawaka IN

PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 21:19    Post subject:  

R-S-H wrote:
rjbrewer wrote:
Flash wrote:
What should I use in new computers?


Your credit card. Laughing


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


I agree Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4238
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 01:16    Post subject:  

The Puppy Development community works very hard to generate General Purpose 32bit distros for our use.

It appears you may have just joined the forum. So, you "may" be new here.

For about the last 3 years many/most Puppy developers have been sharing the "target" PC they expect for the distros they build for community consumption. Since there is no "standard format" of announcing this, sometimes, we have to dig a little to get that understanding.

Last year, this community made major efforts in transistioning distros to work in 2 major areas for General Purpose 32bit Puppy systems:
  1. Most, now, build a 32bit version that seems to work very well on PCs from 512MB to 4GB. This is labeled sometimes as "4G" and other times as non-PAE.
  2. And many distro builders also make a 32bit version which will work on any PC since 1995 which comes with the Intel PAE spec.
The older distros too, as couple members have already shared in this thread, do "work" on the older hardware...still.

In an effort to help you I see that your laptop has one of these CPU:
  • Intel® Pentium M® Processors up to 735 (1.70 Ghz, 2MB L2 cache);
  • Intel® Pentium M® Processors up to 1.60 Ghz (1MB L2 cache);
  • Intel® Celeron M® Processors up to 340 (1.50 Ghz, 512KB L2 cache)
There is no conspiracy active in this community nor is there attempts to purposely hide information for any greater purpose. In fact, this, I believe, is the reason the distro developers began sharing the targeted platforms that they expect their builds will run comfortably on. I think many test this to insure accuracy of their recommendations. Thus they try to help people, like us, to understand what the distro is intended for.

The PAE development is designed, specifically, to extend the system configurations that PUPs can run on....not to limit Puppy Linux. Over 99% of the CPUs built by AMD and Intel have PAE. Thats a lot of millions of PCs since 1995.

The community can help you, should you want its help. So I will take a step to ask a couple of key questions such that members here can share good information to help

Question that we need answers to better help you
  1. Which of the above processors do you have on the D505?
  2. How much RAM do you have on the D505?
  3. What Operating System were you running BEFORE you signed into the forum on the D505?

If you are running ANY Linux, open a terminal, type the following, and post the results, along with the above questions to us here in the forum.
Code:
# uname -a
# grep flags /proc/cpuinfo
Should you want help, please share the answers to all the questions and also post the results of the above commands.

You can trust that members, here, will assist with a better understanding from you.

Here to help

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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 09:43    Post subject:  

Been using Wary on my Pentium M machine for a long time.
Trying the just released Precise 5.6.
Just as good; if not better.

_________________

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 839
Location: lincoln

PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 10:07    Post subject:  

regarding the new precise, I have it installed on a lenovo t500 and it seems much faster then earlier versions

Smile
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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 515

PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 11:12    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:

There is no conspiracy active in this community nor is there attempts to purposely hide information for any greater purpose.


Perhaps we should start one. Only folks who know to read this forum can be let in on our secret plan to take over the world by providing software designed to run very well and be easy to use on different machines and thus force those who try to sell competing software out of business.

I did think of an idea that is slightly above my skill level to make life easier for folks with hardware we did not expect to be run on.

When puppy comes up the first time, it tries to go straight into running with the hardware it thinks is there. It may be worth it to add a text mode dialog just before this that says something like this:

Quote:

We have looked at this machine and think we know what hardware is installed. Based on what we see, we are about to start using your video card etc.

Some brands of computers have hardware that looks like one thing but in fact is something else. If the screen goes black and stays that way for several minutes, it is safe to just reset the computer and try again. Your hard drive is not touched.

Is this a case of you trying again?
(NO) (YES)


If the answer yes is given each wizard can be run with perhaps an extra line of text suggesting they may try a different setting.
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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4231
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 12:49    Post subject:  

I agree with "Moose on the Loose".

We should all conspire to make the (computer) world more transparent.
Like in compiz-fusion or something.

(Now where in h... did flash put that tongue-in-cheek icon...) Smile

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donkeymilk

Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 19:35    Post subject: THANKS  

Thanks for those who posted the genuinely helpful answers.
Sorry ,it was 3 in the morning (Non compos mentis)! Embarassed
Thanks again for the helpful pointers.
Shouldn't we ask the "Linux Community" to state pae or non pae on all releases?

I'm using Fakepae with one my of Ubuntu spinoffs and it seems to work ok.
Sadly it's not recognized at the bios level when first booting other distros i like to check out.
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AwesomesaurusRex


Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013, 16:56    Post subject: Re: THANKS  

donkeymilk wrote:
Shouldn't we ask the "Linux Community" to state pae or non pae on all releases?


I think that makes perfect sense.
personally i think pae is dumb. if you have 4gb or more you are probably running a 64bit cpu so you should use a 64bit os.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4238
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2013, 18:35    Post subject:  

The laptop mentioned by @Donkeymilk is only 32bit.

PAE does NOT degrade Puppy LInux behavior should he choose to use it. Its not a question of PAE or non-PAE on the 99% of all 32bit capable PCs since 1995. There really are a very few PCs-laptops that are NOT PAE capable NO MATTER HOW MUCH RAM you have. PAE Is not and never was a 4GB or greater technology. Its a memory-addressing technology BUILT-IN the hardware (CPU) of the PC. Thus, the pre-1995 technology (non-PAE) works and the post-1995 hardware technology (known as PAE) works TOO with NO drawbacks to either of the 2,

So, if you have a PAE capable PC/laptop, its your choice when a developer offers you a choice.

The primary reason developers offer PAE capability is that they KNOW that a PAE distro will work NO MATTER HOW MUCH RAM you have. from 384MB (some distros) to as much as you can get the BIOS to use. And, Puppy is designed to incorporate all of that memory into its RAM file system for productive user use. For non-PAE distros, the same use exist, but, the amount of RAM is limited. Again, both of these work will work on a PAE capable PC, without issue or drawbacks.

This is the technology. Its not a feeling.

Either, will probably work on your laptop. @Donkeymilk, use your discretion. On some distros, if you do NOT have a PAE laptop/PC, you will get a message indicating this when you try to boot. Otherwise, it will "just boot to desktop".

This is offer to help in understanding. Its, simply, for informational purposes.

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