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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Official SFS for desktops
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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 12 May 2013, 05:52    Post subject:  Official SFS for desktops
Subject description: wish list - suggestion
 

Hi everyone, and Barry (hope you read me) Smile

The idea was written here but have been thought of for many years Embarassed

Quote:
I think we should submit Barry the idea to release the desktops sfs each time a new release is out. By reading the forum in the past months many people have been searching their favorite desktop sfs, with more or less luck.

Jejy69 made a wonderful work by releasing its sfs for precise but they were losts in a crash disk.

Carolina is a wonderful work on Xfce desktop but it's a complete woof build based on Racy for PAE kernels ; I have not seen a .SFS for XFCE or maybe I'm wrong ?

The idea would be to release a .SFS for each desktop so that anyone could apply to its favorite official release, choose PAE or non PAE, without having to re-invent the wheel each time and save a lot of time. Moreover, only a very small elite people are able to build these SFS desktop files.


For instance, when Puppy precise 5.5 is released, the users would have the choice (the same day would be great) to use xfce.sfs or kde.sfs or ice.sfs or whatever.

And we could update the desktops, independently from the official release, so if a puppy is released and at same time we have KDE.4.9.sfs, later we could apply KDE.4.10.sfs without need for a remaster of the whole ppuy... and that would simplify the tests for each releases too...

Many linux distributions release their distribution with different desktop flavors, so that would help puppy go mainstream too.

Best regards

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starhawk

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PostPosted: Sun 12 May 2013, 13:34    Post subject:  

That's a good idea! I like that. Then there's more to choose from than JWM, OpenBox, and sometimes IceWM, none of which I like to any great degree.
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun 12 May 2013, 15:48    Post subject:  

Hi.

Yes, that's surely on of the MAIN good ideas of the century!

Please, could you build an Unity SFS for each Puppy release of the -hm, let's say: last 10 years? Laughing

Would be best done by one of the official Puppy Developers? Laughing

And, oh, by the way:

Could you please add some modifications so, that I would be able to use the Unity SFS in STEem, which I do use in all of my Puppies! Laughing

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
Laughing I really would appreciate this very much! Laughing
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

---

Why trying to increase the size of used RAM by adding useful applications, if it can simply be done by adding bloat onto the poor small Puppies back? Wink

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starhawk

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PostPosted: Sun 12 May 2013, 17:44    Post subject:  

Rolling Eyes

Going forward with NEW releases, R-S-H. Besides, it's a suggestion. If you don't like it, don't help implement it.

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akash_rawal

Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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Location: ISM Dhanbad, Jharkhand, India

PostPosted: Mon 13 May 2013, 01:36    Post subject:  

lvds wrote:
Quote:

The idea would be to release a .SFS for each desktop so that anyone could apply to its favorite official release, choose PAE or non PAE, without having to re-invent the wheel each time and save a lot of time.

That's a nice idea, but it isn't so easy.

Puppy has a lot of rox stuff hardcoded, means many scripts need to be adjusted for things to get integrated with the new desktop environment.

I'd suggest a common package (or woof patch?) that will remove the hardcoded rox stuff. Then setting up a new desktop would only be a little more than compiling and installing.

I use lxde with all puppies I have, and currently I hardcode lxde stuff in wmpoweroff, wmreboot, etc. scripts which isn't the right way. Ideally we need something modular, reusable, and easy to adjust.
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simargl

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PostPosted: Mon 13 May 2013, 02:01    Post subject:  

.
Last edited by simargl on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:06; edited 1 time in total
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lvds


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon 13 May 2013, 02:11    Post subject:  

akash_rawal wrote:
lvds wrote:
Quote:

The idea would be to release a .SFS for each desktop so that anyone could apply to its favorite official release, choose PAE or non PAE, without having to re-invent the wheel each time and save a lot of time.

That's a nice idea, but it isn't so easy.

Puppy has a lot of rox stuff hardcoded, means many scripts need to be adjusted for things to get integrated with the new desktop environment.



Yes, that's why I thought it would be good to have Barry implied somewhere on this, so we can have the main release puppy (jwm/rox) somehow modular...

I know "it's a job", something difficult, but we all would benefit A LOT from this change ! Smile

Best regards

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akash_rawal

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PostPosted: Mon 13 May 2013, 04:10    Post subject:  

I suggest this model.

There could be directory /usr/libexec/deskenv. This will further contain one directory for each desktop environment e.g. /usr/libexec/deskenv/jwm, /usr/libexec/deskenv/lxde, ...

This directory will then contain scripts like start and stop for starting and terminating desktop environment.

Further it will contain fm_opendir, fm_closedir and some other scripts for handling the file manager. These scripts will be used by /usr/local/bin/defaultfiler.

This can enable flawless integration with current desktop environment e.g. if user switches from lxde to gnome, puppy scripts will use nautilius instead of pcmanfm without any user intervention other than exiting X and typing xwin gnome

An example for lxde might look like:

/usr/libexec/deskenv/lxde/start:
Code:

#!/bin/sh
exec startlxde

/usr/libexec/deskenv/lxde/stop:
Code:

#!/bin/sh
#killall startlxde doesn't work here, that's why I suggested this
killall lxsession

/usr/libexec/deskenv/lxde/fm_opendir:
Code:

#!/bin/sh
#Usage: fm_opendir /path/to/dir
exec pcmanfm -n "$1"

etc.

I will try this shortly, but I think this would be better done by someone who knows woof well I think.
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akash_rawal

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PostPosted: Tue 14 May 2013, 16:47    Post subject:  

I made a crude and simple implementation of the above model on slacko 5.5.

I have attached the modified files. All edits are marked with "###". The changes are backwards compatible, means you can launch window managers in the old way too.

That's all I can do, I now leave this to other experts here. They know exactly what improvements/enhancement to make as they have more knowledge than I will ever have.
pup_deskenv_slacko550_impl.tar.gz
Description  Implementation for the model on slacko 5.5. Contains modified files plus required scripts
gz

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Filename  pup_deskenv_slacko550_impl.tar.gz 
Filesize  5.25 KB 
Downloaded  308 Time(s) 
pup_deskenv_lxde.tar.gz
Description  Example for LXDE (Use xwin lxde to start LXDE using this)
gz

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Filename  pup_deskenv_lxde.tar.gz 
Filesize  509 Bytes 
Downloaded  324 Time(s) 
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 15 May 2013, 18:45    Post subject:  

Hm simargl

simargl wrote:
I'm almost 100% sure Barry won't do this, he loves JWM/Rox so much


I read this sentence as a kind of critic. But it is not right! What is Puppy? An adult Dog? Or an hybrid between dog and elephant?

We did have Puppy's with a number and kind of applications very analogue to them from today under 30 Mb in 2003/2004 (!), or with reduced number of applications but able to surf on the web in a great graphic browser with unter 12 Mb (see old messages of MU, he did come back to visit us in the last days on the German forum). We did have Puppy's with all his scope of usual applications able to run completely from CD-RW with dismonted (or defect) hard disk without USB: an extremely little OS and a lot of capacity on the CD-RW for the user!

This was long years the soul of Puppy...

And this require choices.

Our problem today is that each one wants to make Puppy different. Else great distros as Debian can't offer that. Separate groups develop different versions; common is only the depository.

What is your real problem with JWM or Rox (or Seamonkey, the goodies of Puppy known by all old Puppy users)?

Do they not work correctly?

In the 2..4 first years did Puppy also have other file managers (and browsers as well as X system: initially did Puppy use Xvesa as standard and have to spend now a lot of mega byte of fat to continue to support Xorg!), but with Rox and Xorg, Puppy did make a spring in higher quality.I find, that Barry did make here very good long term choices. What is your problem if the long years experimented new Puppy met 2 decisions making the difference with elephantic systems like Slackware, Suse, Debian, Redhat (to name only the older in age of them). Puppy itself did come from Slackware; the difference was that Puppy was extremely tiny (not as small as Basic Linux, baslin, also coming from Slackware, and offering a graphic linux system on only two floppy discs; both were initially very comparable, in the same group, baslin on bottom and puppy on top. but puppy was not being as baslin only an absolutely minimal system - baslin offers only one real graphic application: a calculator, but the comfort to make possible to work at the same time in a lot of windows and to copy from the one into an other). The old Puppy's did yet offer a complete graphic environment:

the power of Puppy was that a lot of people didn't make at all more activity in Slackware oder MS-Windows as in Puppy Laughing . Surf on the web, phone and chat through the internet, calculate somewhat (including personal budget or other really complex calculations), write a letter, draw a attractive picture, manage the calendar, record a sound and a lot of other jobs, that is more as that you can do with the complete base scope of delivery from commercial MS Windows and in higher comfort and quality! Puppy did make that years along on a check card CD with only 50 MB.

A lot of people does only surf on the web (or play as on a play station) with her PC (see concept from MU: a only-surfing-Puppy with only 10..12 mb, two releases were proposed)!

I use daily a Puppy with KDE. About 2 years along Quirky 120 and the big kdenlive.sfs including KDE 4, and now since it did be published the spanish-english puplet from Josep24x24. Why? Only because I need daily to print out land maps as a snapshot (in Seamonkey the print routine changes the zoom or the zoom is really hard to control to print out in nord - south direction as the screens are not square beeing better to print out in west - east direction). Kde is the only one easy way I now outside MS-Windows to change 90 degree the screen direction needed in north - south direction without changing of the resolution! And the Puplet from Josep24x24 starts very fast, very faster as full installed KDE from other distributions!

It is nonsens to require from a tiny distribution it has to offer the same as a complete slackware, being her origin, or Debian, with more than 30.000 packages in depository for each release...

It is my opinion...

Kind regards
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oui

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PostPosted: Thu 16 May 2013, 18:11    Post subject: very old Puppy versions  

on the basis of this discussion, I looked up my old CD's

and see that I have versions of old goodies being yet able to start on new PC's:



this one was a very special version of Puppy 2.0:

only 98 MB with integrated Open Office (little window right at the bottom). browsers are dillo and opera.

it was yet possible to connect the internet through the LAN, open my mail box (refusing that old browser with the comment «but you can try it using the next link» etc.) to get links, and upload the picture of the screen snapshot Laughing

The USB mouse did work (else it was not official supported, usb mouse support did come with later versions, probably 2.08 .. 2.10)

I have more CD starting with not working because of the usb mouse.

Micro Muppy 01 (one of both micro Puppys from MU) year 2007

full Puppy on CD-RW (Puppy 1.05?) not needing some HD at all

Puppy 0.4 20 MB Idea
Puppy 0.6 23 MB (I can remember that I did use it daily)
Puppy 0.74 (I did write on the CD: first Puppy with DHCP = Samba, but I can remember that it did not work on my PC Confused )
Puppy 1.4 50 MB (probably special version trimed for check card size CD)
Puppy 2.02 50 MB (really special version trimed for check card size CD)
Puppy 2alpha (did have the last numero in the list of Puppy of the 1.n generation, my lovely Puppy, used month and month along, February 2006)

Puppy 2.10 containing, it is not usual in my old CD's, 2 ISO files:
puppy_2.10r1_seamonkey.iso, and
lfslivecd_x86_6_2_3.iso
as well as devx_210.sfs and
t2_6_0_puppy_2_10.tar + x11r7_tar.bz2 as well as a lot of development's files
probably enough to re begin to develop for this old version in nostalgic manner.

I will try to find an old PC with 486 to start the most old Puppy's and try to get more print screens (or photographies from screen)!
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lvds


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PostPosted: Fri 17 May 2013, 02:27    Post subject: STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE  

?!? Shocked Stay on topic please !
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oui

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PostPosted: Fri 17 May 2013, 02:59    Post subject: Re: STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE  

lvds wrote:
?!? Shocked Stay on topic please !


that ist that lvds!

you find your suggestion interesting but it is silly dilly:

all above puppy have the classic presentation of a real Puppy: the same as on my little snapshot:

you want to wring the poor Puppy stuff as long as it become not be a Puppy any more because you add code and code for absolutely not needed new function not offered by the biggest distributions...

Puppy has long been a chubby and sick puppy under such impulsions requiring transform it heavily.
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lvds


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PostPosted: Fri 17 May 2013, 03:31    Post subject: Re: STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE  

oui wrote:
lvds wrote:
?!? Shocked Stay on topic please !


that ist that lvds!

you find your suggestion interesting but it is silly dilly:

all above puppy have the classic presentation of a real Puppy: the same as on my little snapshot:

you want to wring the poor Puppy stuff as long as it become not be a Puppy any more because you add code and code for absolutely not needed new function not offered by the biggest distributions...

Puppy has long been a chubby and sick puppy under such impulsions requiring transform it heavily.


Shocked How can you say this when so many people are working each month to improve the desktop experience ! Everyone is working hard, from newcomers to veterans, Toopy, Jejy69 and many others to build new desktops, some works better than others but everyone is trying hard ! We need some modularity in the base puppy so we integrate easily the developpers works and move from one desktop another without recompiling / rebuilding / remastering new pupplets ! This is just pure reason. We need some way to give mainstream users easier access to the desktops the devs are working so hard on.

If you don't agree with the idea, stay off the topic and don't disgust others.

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oui

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PostPosted: Fri 17 May 2013, 15:00    Post subject: Re: STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE  

lvds wrote:
How can you say this when so many people are working each month to improve the desktop experience !


Desktops are as useful as curlers in the head of a lover's girl... Puppy has JWM, the most tiny desktop (*1 since years because Puppy is the most tiny from all great Linux distributions working well with about all PC's...




(*1 180 kB!!! for all! Windows management, extremely flexible tray management, background picture management, start program management, icone management, keyboard entries management etc. ...
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