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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Desktop
Trinity 3.5.13
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bohocmasni

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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun 2012, 15:30    Post subject:  

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01micko


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun 2012, 17:29    Post subject:  

bohocmasni wrote:
404 not found Sad


Try my post, I didn't check but it should be up Smile

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=584664#584664

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jesse100

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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct 2012, 16:15    Post subject: Trinity and Package Manager  

I can"t seem to get the Puppy Package Manager to work. SlickPet will but the Package Manager will not. What gives?

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Plume

Joined: 12 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Feb 2013, 13:48    Post subject:  

I run Trinity upon Puppy 525 and ppm doesn't seem to have any trouble.

On an other hand, Firefox 18 doesn't work at all while Firefox 12 do.
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lvds


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PostPosted: Mon 13 May 2013, 20:46    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
bohocmasni wrote:
404 not found Sad


Try my post, I didn't check but it should be up Smile

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=584664#584664


Thanks Smile Is it a mirror of the build made by Iguleder or is it another build made from you ? Does it run with the latest puppy or with a specific release ?

Your post said it is for slacko, but did Iguleder release could work with ubuntu-ized puppies ?

Just in case if this release is not from Iguleder, does anyone have a backup that we could mirror, please ? Plume, which one is yours ?

Thanks in advance Smile

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lvds


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PostPosted: Wed 15 May 2013, 04:42    Post subject:  

Arrow EPIC WIN ! Smile

After a lot of work and crashes, I finally got the whole TDE running exceptionally well Shocked Very Happy

I managed to find original packs deep in internet underground and made some builds with modern puppies so to compare how it is working and which one is best Smile And I have to say I love it !

As I said in another thread, the KDE 4.10 (packed by Jejy69) have problems, minor problems but still some things are not working and many people have a great need for a full KDE desktop, so I hope these problems will be solved as soon as possible (please please please Smile )

But, meanwhile, many people needs a KDE stable desktop and I receive very often requests for a KDE distribution. As many of others in this forum I have tested all I found, but still I think we can do it better, so I hope we can unite and get a strong distribution.

I found this thread/post where Iguleder was saying:
Quote:
By the way - if I get Trinity to build correctly, I intend to contribute my build scripts to upstream (e.g its GIT repository) and make Puppy one of the distributions supported by Trinity, officially - I want Puppy to appear in the Trinity homepage.

And that is something I would love to see come true too, but that was back in 12 nov. 2011 and he may have been busy elsewhere. Contribute to the upstream is a whole job, and I hope Iguleder will continue its work a long time, but maintening a linux distribution is also a lot of job, so I think I can help on this Wink

True there is a large number of people asking for a stable KDE3 full desktop, so I think I will join on this project and help as much I can to build something stable I can give to friends, and maybe to a larger audience if you wish and agree Smile (If someone have something to say, let him talk now)

So far I have made some adjustments to the desktop so to have a much better experience. And that is where I'm good at anyway, I like to tweak the desktop until kids and grand'ma can all use the computer with no IT knowledge and let me play games without disturbing Smile

There is a need for the additionals packs, like kde-games.sfs, so I hope a builder could do a better work than me, I always have hard time at compile puppy things (but anyway what I really need is to learn from a pro how to do it the right way). Also I could not have dolphin running fine, and that is an important part. I have a deep love for dolphin and the promise to have a stable distribution with dolphin is a true motivation here Smile

Konqueror is really great and shipped as the default internet browser, but still I miss some firefox plugins I rely on for daily job. So I'm working on a kde-firefox.pet that people could download at will if they need it. The original firefox I have works fine already but I want to improve the ugly look and feel Smile

So, Anyone with me ? Smile

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Iguleder


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PostPosted: Wed 15 May 2013, 05:47    Post subject:  

lvds wrote:
And that is something I would love to see come true too, but that was back in 12 nov. 2011 and he may have been busy elsewhere. Contribute to the upstream is a whole job, and I hope Iguleder will continue its work a long time, but maintening a linux distribution is also a lot of job, so I think I can help on this Wink


The reason why I haven't contributed my scripts is build failures later in the process, Trinity's applications simply fail to build because of many dependencies Puppy lacks. It takes lots of time to figure out how to build the entire Trinity tree (e.g not just the base) for Puppy, so I gave up.

However, I still think a Trinity Puppy is an awesome idea. Wink

The reason I decided not to build one myself is simple - there are two complex technological challenges involved in such project:
- No Wayland/Mir/(whatever becomes the de-facto X11 replacement) support in KWin and Qt3. Trinity will die (or become almost impossible to maintain and integrate into a distro) in 1-3 years, unless someone ports it. Think of the last time someone built a distro without thinking of the future. I always see a distro as a product - the ability to maintain a product (e.g ensure technology it relies on now will also be there tomorrow) is crucial in the world of distros.
- Qt3 is old and today's applications no longer use it (so the distro is bigger and its UI is less consistent).

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lvds


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PostPosted: Wed 15 May 2013, 08:13    Post subject:  

Iguleder wrote:
lvds wrote:
And that is something I would love to see come true too, but that was back in 12 nov. 2011 and he may have been busy elsewhere. Contribute to the upstream is a whole job, and I hope Iguleder will continue its work a long time, but maintening a linux distribution is also a lot of job, so I think I can help on this Wink


The reason why I haven't contributed my scripts is build failures later in the process, Trinity's applications simply fail to build because of many dependencies Puppy lacks. It takes lots of time to figure out how to build the entire Trinity tree (e.g not just the base) for Puppy, so I gave up.

However, I still think a Trinity Puppy is an awesome idea. Wink


Ok, so even if you cannot contribute to the upstream, your built is strong enough to not crash when running ?
and building a distro will give use a useable tool ? (just to know so I don't spend my time for nothing Smile )

[sorry for EDIT] I meant: The tool I'm using by now seems to work fine, so I'm trying to figure out what could trash...

Iguleder wrote:

The reason I decided not to build one myself is simple - there are two complex technological challenges involved in such project:
- No Wayland/Mir/(whatever becomes the de-facto X11 replacement) support in KWin and Qt3. Trinity will die (or become almost impossible to maintain and integrate into a distro) in 1-3 years, unless someone ports it. Think of the last time someone built a distro without thinking of the future. I always see a distro as a product - the ability to maintain a product (e.g ensure technology it relies on now will also be there tomorrow) is crucial in the world of distros.
- Qt3 is old and today's applications no longer use it (so the distro is bigger and its UI is less consistent).


Ok, I have spend a long time to read about all of this. It seems to me there is a future because they are building TDE 14.0.0. In my understanding it will bring users a KDE3 look and feel with Qt4 underground.
I don't think Qt3 is important to maintain, we need to have it by now, so the desktop can run. But some reasons to go Qt4 were legitimate and brought great improvements to the desktop. That is unfortunate (in my humble opinion and maybe some others too) that the desktop look and feel changed so much: it is fresh and new and beautiful but it is also somethig completely different that users need to accostumate. So build the usual look and feel desktop with the new Qt4 will be wonderful. From all the reports I read, it seems to follow the right path. We will see...

Meanwhile the goal for us could be to build a useable distro with what we have so far, a TDE 3.5.13 and update it along with new puppy releases Smile You said "applications fails to build", which applications are you talking about ? Kde games ? Koffice ? or some program already in your package that may crash and maybe I did not test ?
Is it possible for you to add the dependencies that are lacking by now ? I mean, for instance if Kspread is not working because of a dependency that only exists in Qt4, we can use a previous Kspread release which was only requiring Qt3, or I'm wrong ?

I saw a video from Porteus if I remember well where they had Dolphin 4 running in Trinity, and Dolphin was thinking living in KDE4, so it seems to prove some apps can be tricked ?

By reading the files listings in the depots, I found many puppy packages SFS and PET for KDE3. Is there anything we can re-use or is it required to re-compile each tool specifically for our TDE ?

I think for now there is no need to concentrate on the size of the build, it is much better to have a stable and complete product. Let's make something that works, even if it is only one or a few things. The rest will come later. And in the worst case, even if we don't have KDE specific apps, we still can embed some other apps "kde-ified".
Let's KDE-ify the puppy world ! Very Happy

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lvds


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PostPosted: Wed 15 May 2013, 08:35    Post subject:  

...I forgot something Smile

In the Lazy Puppy thread I see they have also KDE packages, so it means these packages are static compiled ? I'm not sure they can be re-used elsewhere, but maybe that is a great solution we could use : when an apps needs some libs that may conflict with the TDE libs we could just compile this apps in static and make it autonomous from the rest of the system... and now I'm thinking about it, maybe that is just what Porteus have done to get Dolphin 4 into TDE Smile

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Iguleder


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PostPosted: Wed 15 May 2013, 09:04    Post subject:  

Qt3 and 4 can co-exist, so you can use KDE 4 applications inside Trinity and vice-versa. You don't need static linking to have this compatibility.

Also, the fact R14 is under development doesn't mean there will be R15. And no, it won't use Qt4, since the project decided to stick with Qt3. And even if it will, Qt4 is deprecated already, because of Qt5. Trinity is a relatively young project and it's already way behind - to be honest, I'm very pessimistic about its future.

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lvds


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PostPosted: Wed 15 May 2013, 12:40    Post subject:  

Iguleder wrote:
Qt3 and 4 can co-exist, so you can use KDE 4 applications inside Trinity and vice-versa. You don't need static linking to have this compatibility.


yes I read about it, but that means you need to embed Qt3 and Qt4 instead of one only... If it's only to run one app I'm not sure it's worth the "cost", but that is something I need to think about Smile

Iguleder wrote:
Also, the fact R14 is under development doesn't mean there will be R15. And no, it won't use Qt4, since the project decided to stick with Qt3. And even if it will, Qt4 is deprecated already, because of Qt5. Trinity is a relatively young project and it's already way behind - to be honest, I'm very pessimistic about its future.


mmh... Confused well, in the end everything may die, eventually. That does not mean we can't have a life. Butterflies lives only one day, still it's worthy (yes it is because one flap only of one butterfly over the ocean can twist the planet and send it upside down ... err, but, well, anyway. sorry) Embarassed Everything changes when the time has come and we play with other toys... In the past we had puppy series 2, could you believe it, some people did not want to upgrade and sweared they will run serie 2 for the rest of their life, they delcared the upgrade heretic LOL ... I guess when KDE4 will end, we will play with KDE5 Wink

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Iguleder


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PostPosted: Wed 15 May 2013, 13:13    Post subject:  

lvds wrote:
mmh... Confused well, in the end everything may die, eventually. That does not mean we can't have a life.


I'm sorry if my post was misinterpreted. I didn't mean we shoudn't use Trinity; I think it's awesome and highly recommend it to those who seek a lightweight DE.

I'm just worried about its future, that's all. It seems to me that building a software project around it (a distro that uses as its interface or a new application that links with its libraries) is very risky if you seek continuity and long-term support. If Trinity gets ported to Wayland, I'd feel relieved. Smile

However, that's just my opinion. In the present, I think Puppy could benefit a lot from a Trinity puplet. Just think of all the SLAX 6.x and Porteus refugees Wink

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lvds


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PostPosted: Thu 16 May 2013, 08:45    Post subject:  

Iguleder wrote:
However, that's just my opinion. In the present, I think Puppy could benefit a lot from a Trinity puplet. Just think of all the SLAX 6.x and Porteus refugees Wink


Ok, let's say in the future we will use Shahor with KDE4 Wink and I can't wait for it, and for now let's build something with what we have.

I have set some pendrives with a few different configs so I can compare what is worth and what is not... At first my idea was to build from woof, either compatible with ubuntu or slackware. I have carefully re-read Pemasu threads about its builds and 01micko and I come to understand that even if I had a template so I could build exactly how they did, there are still many details they have carefully thought of and added bits by bits all over... so in the end I would not get a result as good Confused Building a barebone is also a job in itself, and I recall in the past years the long hours of work when I had to do so... Or maybe I missed something and there is a great way to get a so excellent result from woof ? Pemasu and 01micko works are amazing.

So, the base to build upon could be either thinslack or upup non-pae that needs to be stripped down. Thinslack would be easier but I have experience with ubuntu and many software that I could re-use... There is a choice to do here.

About Trinity, I had an idea last night, if we have troubles at compiling maybe we could simply use some binaries compatible ; if puppy is compatible that should not pose problem and in the case of missing depencencies I could also import the binaries missing libraries, err... no ? Confused Please advise Smile

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PostPosted: Fri 17 May 2013, 19:16    Post subject:  

Here is what I have so far. TDE built from Iguleder is working fine into puppy. I spend my time at tweaking from left to right and found it very useful. It's encouraging but on the other hand it's furstrating because you can't go one step further, that is install the missing TDE apps. You can only improve the desktop and integrate the best you can the usual GTK apps found in the puppy repos. Somehow I ended up with the feeling I was missing something Smile
I tried to incorporate some binaries from elsewhere, but the kde apps have a lot of dependencies and most of the time I had something missing. I hoped I could add some .pet with some KDE ready apps inside but have not yet found a listing with that.

It seems to me another solution could be to embed the TDE binaries into a barebone. I tried. I made my tests on upup precise, got apt-get running (yay it made my day Cool ), installed a few things, then took a big breath, set the TDE repos PUBKEYS gpg, and asked for a full install. Nothing to lose. If it works I will dance around my chair. It crashed. Rolling Eyes Anyway it was important. I noticed apt-get asked for nearly 2go Shocked and noticed some xorg packs I'm pretty sure will make puppy bark. Couldn't it work ? Also there is something about the login manager that is installed by the package. Puppy don't have that, so how can I handle the issue ?

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PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 23:26    Post subject:  

Works on my copy of Upup Precise (IIRC it's an early version of Upup Precise 3831 -- ISO is marked as Upup Precise 382) with no modification.

Just one problem.

Everything under the sun is stuffed under the "Lost and Found" Menu option. Fix PLZ?

EDIT: also, being a refugee of GNOME2, I have to ask -- is there an orange/black theme for it, like GTK's DeepThought?

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