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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
a shame for Puppy Linux, not power!
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2146
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 13:33    Post_subject:  a shame for Puppy Linux, not power!  

The Web (http://www. etc...) did begin 20 years ago. It cames from?

USA?
Australia?

no!!!

no at all!

but from the only one country not taking in consideration in Puppy Linux:

Switzerland Rolling Eyes !

(try to enter your ch-keyboard in Puppy linux, you will wonder)

The first web site available for large public on the web did be

http://www.info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html

30.04.1993

This web page did describe itself in exemplary short kind the future of the W3-Project and start a completely new area, the area of the web information and world wide web communication for each people.

Swiss people did offer us, linux fans, more as the did often be the forgotten people from the web Laughing (no ch locales in German puppy linux versions, the author answers nonsens, like role of Switzerland in the corruption in the world, rarely ch locales in French puppy linux versions, no ch locales in Puppy linux himself Rolling Eyes - it happens always so) so that Swiss people did create own Linux version:

- Slitaz, the direct competitor of Puppy linux Idea, Slitaz 1.0 was in 4 languages!
- Debris, a little old but at publications time fully compatible with the actual version of Ubuntu and under 200 Mb (as diverses Puppys actually Wink )
- Nutyx, a French only version from scratch from Linux from scratch, compiled fully automatic from scratch and offering liveISO facilities... complete most actual KDE etc.

and you stay in your opinion it is not adequate to add CH to Puppy?

poor internet...
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2471
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 14:32    Post_subject:  

Wrong, Wrong.. It was announced in a research meeting in 1991-92 IIRC. In San Antonio TX I should know I help set up one of the first ( actually 3 or 4th ) web-server in Spring of 1991 or 92.
I did not expect it would ever amount to anything. You had to email the ip and URL to the page to share it. No DNS existed. Gopher was better across the board Rolling Eyes What ever happened to gopher?
Yes CERN was the early main 'pushers' and quickly put its grubby hands on it and claimed control. Without CERNs clout and self promoting PR staff, it never would have it spread as it did.

If we give in to a Switzerland keyboard what would you do? Take over and control everything. International Banking <check>, Vatican police force <check>, World Court <check>, International Aid Society <check>, Physics Research <check> Internet <un-check> Shocked


Granted the Swiss are the most trust worthy if any group existed, but still.
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2146
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 14:50    Post_subject:  

true true true Ted Dog Laughing
Ted Dog wrote:
Wrong, Wrong.. It was announced


announced is not done Embarassed ...

The first page for normal user was the above page Idea !

It was published in fac simile in divers European pages as «Le Figaro» (is not a Swiss publication but a French one). If you really have more early pages, you can say us where we can see them Laughing
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linuxbear

Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 14:51    Post_subject:  

Full Swiss support for Puppy might require the Romansh language too Wink
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2146
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 15:09    Post_subject:  

I don't know!

US support includes no native language from Amerika

CAN support includes not Inoui language (Inouis speaks international often my mother tongue, French...)

AUS support includes no Aborigen support from Australia

ok

perhaps you are right Rolling Eyes ...

Swiss support effort, as French, German and Italian are already included, would only be less than 10 bytes more in each Puppy Mad :

- CH
- CH_fr

Shocked

in the keyboard map selection list (or an open field to enter free EACH keyboard beeing recognized by X.org as implemented in Puppy Laughing ; including the international US_intl keyboard adequate to write absolutely correctly ALL West-European languages Idea )

but

why

easy ?

if

difficult

is also possible...
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 15:28    Post_subject:  

Hello, oui.

oui wrote:
no ch locales in German puppy linux versions, the author answers nonsens, like role of Switzerland in the corruption in the world
I know, this is going to be addressed to me - I do remember our discussion on that in the German forum.

1. I'm not the author of the German Puppy Linux versions - just LazY Puppy!
2. The role of the switzerland in the corruption in the world is a big one - this is not nonsense!
3. We do have currently about 200,000 German citizens (really really rich people) who haven't paid their taxes and do own illegal bank accounts in the switzerland - you surely have noticed the "Uli-Hoeneß-Case", they talk about 20,000,000 € just in the case of Uli Hoeneß !!!
4. The US government had a similar situation a few years ago. The US government did face the swiss banks managers to decide either to go in jail or to offer all the data of US citizens who did own illegal bank accounts in the switzerland and they received the data !!!
5. As I wrote to you earlier (some months ago) in the German forum, do offer some help to get a CH or US_intl keyboard activated in LazY Puppy (I can't do anything on other German Puppy versions, because I'm NOT the author of these versions)!!!
6. By now, a few months later you still do not offer any help but posting bullshit AGAIN!!!
7. This is not the way you will get me to do any work on this!
8. It looks like you are the person with knowledge about who did made a puppy offering swiss keyboard functions - I'm not!
9. Go connect to these guys and do collect the needed information to activate swiss or US_intl keyboard support in LazY Puppy - then I will have a look on what I can do on this.
10. Otherwise you will waste your time, but surely not mine!

Friendly greetings from Germany

RSH

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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 526

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 16:11    Post_subject:  

Ted Dog wrote:
If we give in to a Switzerland keyboard what would you do? Take over and control everything. International Banking <check>, Vatican police force <check>, World Court <check>, International Aid Society <check>, Physics Research <check> Internet <un-check>

Here's some more to check: swiss cheese, swiss chocolate, swiss sausages, swiss army knives, swiss watches, swiss neutrality in world wars ... Please, give in. Think of future wars. Will they want to stay neutral without a keyboard of their own?
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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3972
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 17:46    Post_subject:  

while oui_isnt_complaining_to_xorg
do

Question
Why need for a keyboard if you have

That's good to make

out of (1)
done
Laughing
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2146
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 18:37    Post_subject:  

Hi

Probably has this opinion a sense:

R-S-H wrote:
2. The role of the switzerland in the corruption in the world is a big one - this is not nonsense!
3. We do have currently about 200,000 German citizens (really really rich people) who haven't paid their taxes and do own illegal bank accounts in the switzerland - you surely have noticed the "Uli-Hoeneß-Case", they talk about 20,000,000 € just in the case of Uli Hoeneß !!!
4. The US government had a similar situation a few years ago. The US government did face the swiss banks managers to decide either to go in jail or to offer all the data of US citizens who did own illegal bank accounts in the switzerland and they received the data !!!


also I am reproving all concerning tax havens and find that Luxemburg especially has to be excluded from the European Union as well the Euro zone like Monaco, etc. Wink

but this as nothing common with internet!

I don't refuse to read or write English arguing that the USA diffuse weapons as well in private as official circonstances (6..8 years old boys have weapons and can kill her little sisters and there is a real big market for those business in the USA! scandalous really... Etc.).
It is the same level of argumentation: wrong! We can not port all our remonstrances and claims in all field of the live in the international communication (I don't like North American people because of the weapons, I don't like German people because their parents did kill 6 millions people, I don't like Russian people because the did propage communism on our earth, I don't like Chinese people because they kill all industries outside Chine, I don't like French or English people because they they enriched themselves from slavery, I don't like residents of the planet Mars because all are completely green...). It is silly dilly...

Quote:
9. Go connect to these guys and do collect the needed information to activate swiss or US_intl keyboard support in LazY Puppy - then I will have a look on what I can do on this.


X.org contains all that what is needed Idea :

Only the list of possible options that always opens for unevitable greeting of new users although the desk and bars and menus contains enough options to require the setting front ends

- does not include all available languages really implemented in Puppy since years (did you realize that Puppy also has an anniversary? Internet is public matter since 2 decades but Puppy since the half of this time, a long decade! Initially this list was needed because we didn't use xorg but xvesa and all keyboard choices of xorg didn't be available in xvesa!!! That is the reason of this evolution...)

and

- does not offer some entry field in the front end to enter directly the needed keyboard tipping the 2..5 letter code for it but require to open xorg.conf and do that in the text editor.

As X.org did reform his settings and abandone xorg.conf excepted in Puppy Rolling Eyes , now for several years, a lot of users coming from other fresh Linux experiences has never had some contact with some xorg.conf! But a lot of them know the code of their keyboard and would be able to enter it if it where an entry field for that...

And only Arch Pup etc. have the easy setting up doc in easy text format /root/.start where it is easy to enter a new bash line

# setxkbmap us_intl

(it is also more or less easy to do it in the setting up doc of divers window managers but there exists a nice huddle on window managers in Puppy! BK is probably the only one developper liking JWM... It would be to easy to use an /root/.start as simple text document in each Puppy where the user can save himself wat he wants to optimize his start independently from all other preinstalled setting up files, and offering options like

# no-first-start-greetings
or #first-start-greeting-and-setting-up-invitation

or

# no-save-file-question
or # invite-to-create-save-file

or

# reboot-shutdown-immediately-on-demand
or # re-ask-before-reboot-or-shutdown

etc.)

if using a save file, the changes are in it at the next reboot. if not, you remaster your Puppy, and all disturbing little windows are away and you can use Puppy safely without save file Rolling Eyes , or with, if you wand, as you want!

in Arch Pup, you can enter this way each keyboard you need offered by the implemented X.org version...
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 19:19    Post_subject:  

oui wrote:
X.org contains all that what is needed

I don't know anything about Xorg except that it needs XorgHigh to use applications like Stellarium! As I mentioned a lot of times earlier: I'm not an Linux Expert! Even though the LazY Puppy might suggest something else!

oui wrote:
And only Arch Pup etc. have the easy setting up doc in easy text format /root/.start where it is easy to enter a new bash line

# setxkbmap us_intl

So, why don't you try to put his into your LazY Puppy, getting it to work, sending those files to me and making me able to do some work on this?

oui wrote:
it is also more or less easy to do it in the setting up doc of divers window managers but there exists a nice huddle on window managers in Puppy! BK is probably the only one developper liking JWM... It would be to easy to use an /root/.start as simple text document in each Puppy where the user can save himself wat he wants to optimize his start independently from all other preinstalled setting up files, and offering options like

# no-first-start-greetings
or #first-start-greeting-and-setting-up-invitation

or

# reboot-shutdown-immediately-on-demand
or # re-ask-before-reboot-or-shutdown

etc.)

If it is really that easy -as you say- so, why didn't you do all that stuff by yourself, getting it to work, building a PET and offering it to the Puppy Linux Community?

This would have been much more appreciated than anything else you did offer until today!!!

oui wrote:
or

# no-save-file-question
or # invite-to-create-save-file
...
...
...
if using a save file, the changes are in it at the next reboot. if not, you remaster your Puppy, and all disturbing little windows are away and you can use Puppy safely without save file

You can do this already with your LazY Puppy. I did show you how to reach this in the German forum.

oui wrote:
in Arch Pup, you can enter this way each keyboard you need offered by the implemented X.org version...

Again: why didn't you do all that stuff by yourself, getting it to work, building a PET and offering it to the Puppy Linux Community?

Friendly Greetings from Germany, the Country with the Guys owning ugly Parents, the country of Franz Joseph Strauß and Adolf Hitler (who has been an Austrian), the country of the new German-Finance-Nazis, the country of a lot of other (ugly) things - like you have mentioned such often before...

...and not to forget: the country of LazY Puppy!

RSH

P.S.

Acting like "Help me or I will kick your ass" is not a good guide to get some help!

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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3972
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Thu 02 May 2013, 19:31    Post_subject:  

Quote:
And only Arch Pup etc. have the easy setting up doc in easy text format /root/.start where it is easy to enter a new bash line

Puppy has /root/.xinitrc , where I have put this line for example :
Code:
setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc102 -layout us,de -variant "" -option grp:rwin_toggle,lv3:ralt_switch

I don't think that arch-pup uses something entirely new , but it's creator seems to ba a good coder .

BTW : R-S-H is a little bit right about texters and coders Razz .
GNU/Linux is about free speech, and free speech in the sense of code .
People using GNU/Linux should at least try to look inside it IMHO
and not expecting free beer all of the time.
Wink
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2146
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2013, 03:16    Post_subject:  

Hi

R-S-H wrote:
So, why don't you try to put his into your LazY Puppy, getting it to work, sending those files to me and making me able to do some work on this?

If it is really that easy -as you say- so, why didn't you do all that stuff by yourself, getting it to work, building a PET and offering it to the Puppy Linux Community?

This would have been much more appreciated than anything else you did offer until today!!!

You can do this already with your LazY Puppy. I did show you how to reach this in the German forum.

Again: why didn't you do all that stuff by yourself, getting it to work, building a PET and offering it to the Puppy Linux Community?

Friendly Greetings from Germany, the Country with the Guys owning ugly Parents, the country of Franz Joseph Strauß and Adolf Hitler (who has been an Austrian), the country of the new German-Finance-Nazis, the country of a lot of other (ugly) things - like you have mentioned such often before...

...and not to forget: the country of LazY Puppy!


I did understand what you did explain me but you don't did realize at all what is interesting in Puppy for the great number of visitors and fans:

discover new versions, new ideas, new ways being really comparable as the base is about the same till 10 years ago. it is as a bicycle: always only 2 wheels, only one direction bar, only 2 pedals and only one seat. an extremely simple thing. but a lot of people give great amount of money, till a lot of thousand $, to get the in their opinion actually more smartest bicycle version (and doesn't build there own bicycle itself but buy it absolutely finish and ready to use; they never use some screwdriver, only and that is limit an air pump)...

consequence: your creation did interest me as you did publish that it is ready to use as a final version...

... and is yet forgotten. yourself did depreciate it with the publication of new experiments to port it to other puppy's Wink

but

as well your main Lazy as your 2 new experimentations (I know, you did explain in German why you did begin with old bases) are based on old puppy's, are not interesting at all any more!

BK did understand it years ago and did create perhaps for this reason with great realism his famous new-version-builder "woof"... before that, he did create the dynamic save file actualizing itself to make the passage from version to version easy for those using a save file!

I am sorry, your Lazy is relatively new but his base is already obsolete and not interesting any more for a lot of us (I only use an unique version as old as yours, as the base is the same: the KDE-Puppy from Josep2424. Why? Because it is the only one Puppy version that I know making possible to turn the screen 90°. Before that I did use for a very long time Quirky 120 with the big kdenlive.sfs beeing only operable with Quirky 120, exactly for the same reason: People using geographic aps as Openstreetmap, Google maps etc., I do it really daily, can't be happy with Linux version where it is only possible to work from west to east, like real economical life Laughing in the world, but not from north to south, like real like real poverty level difference Idea in the world Wink !. If you try to add yourself new packages that you are using in new versions, you meet more and more protest that your libraries are not actual any more, and that happens more rarely with fresh versions of Puppy (same thing with new creations like alpha pup instead of arch pup for ex.: you are totally dependent of the coder - different of the initial arch pup, where it was possible to actualize using a standard package manager adequate to user different great depositories, not only Arch, but Archbang or Parabola linux. Parabola opens full access to 100 % free and open source real GNU stuff...).

If you want to sustain your Lazy, you will probably have to port it to a distributions builder like "woof" (can also be a script as used by Iguleder, or Debian, to reinstall Debian, you only need 3 conditions: have bash in use, have "wget" and have "ar", and you can install from script from each other Linux having the same version of bash, or Nutyx, same thing as Debian but with code from book Linux From Scratch, you only need the bash version from LFS, being a little different from that one from Puppy, and build a base in the console, continuing to use at the same time your computer with it different origin Linux, more, you can recompile the base and start a completely new Linux version compiled from scratch from sources of the famous book). If that is given AND EASY to do (try to rebuild Nutyx from scratch, not from binary packages: you will see how easy it can be to do that! It can really be interesting for foreign language, also not French, people, as this would give access to change the language from French to each wished other! It was the reason why this option did be initially published: The author of Nutyx did help to create an Dutch etc. version and reorganize and publish his script used by him in the background since the distro exists so that other can operate easily with it...), I can imagine that the Lazy system would probably interest more people as it is really powerful and the warranty to dispose on an always actual, never obsolete system would be given for all people (of course, those don't having to turn 90° their screen)...

Karl Godt wrote:
Puppy has /root/.xinitrc , where I have put this line for example :
Code:
setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc102 -layout us,de -variant "" -option grp:rwin_toggle,lv3:ralt_switch

I don't think that arch-pup uses something entirely new , but it's creator seems to ba a good coder .


of course Karl. but it is one of different ways, not a standardized proposal to all users (I did do that in /root/.jwmrc since years ago as I am a real fan from JWM: no other window manager is as smart and offers as much possibilities under 200 kb binary size Wink ). in theory, a /root/.start or /home/user/.start would also be valid also in commando mode only (see new distro from iguleder for ex.) or with a libvga.so etc. regardless of the use or not from somewhat like xorg or some window manager settings etc.! it would be a really universal access to individual start setting changes. as you see in ."x"initrc, this file is what especially good for X...

kind regards
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2013, 04:11    Post_subject:  

Hello, oui!

oui wrote:
consequence: your creation did interest me as you did publish that it is ready to use as a final version...

... and is yet forgotten. yourself did depreciate it with the publication of new experiments to port it to other puppy's Wink

but

as well your main Lazy as your 2 new experimentations (I know, you did explain in German why you did begin with old bases) are based on old puppy's, are not interesting at all any more!

Well, that's pretty good news to me.

So, I can continue my current work without the need to make any translations to English or any other language to support other users - except (maybe some German users) mainly myself!

Also, I'm not interested in LazY Puppy Development anymore as well - I'm more generally interested to keep the special Features and Functions of LazY Puppy alive for the later use in different (also newer) puppies. There will be time where will be a need for me to buy some newer hardware which might not work together with LazY Puppy's older Kernel (2.6.33.2)!

That's why I did made the VSP-Puppy (as a test OS for the SFS P.L.U.S. and LazY Remaster Suite) and also the LazY MacPup. But only the VSP-Puppy is currently available and will be available in the future. Though it is not an official derivative of mine - just a test and maybe a gift to Wolfgang because of his special need for this on a single computer at his school working place. Of course I don't plan to publish the LazY MacPup via the internet - neither 525 nor 529!

By now I'm able to create a VSP-Puppy within a few hours and a full featured LazY Puppy within a single day. Therefor I did create the VSP-LazY-Puppy-Builder which installs some Applications, executes some Scripts to modify Openbox WM etc.pp. After this just a few manually steps are needed to do - and: finished!

Currently I do own:

- 1 VSP Lucid 528-005
- 1 VSP Three Headed Dog DE (Lucid 529)
- 1 VSP Precise DE (Precise 5333)
- 1 LazY MacPup 525 DE (Lucid 525)
- 1 LazY MacPup 529 DE (Precise 5260)
- 1 VSP Studio 4 DE (Studio 4 from 10wt3ch)
- 1 Osiris Multimedia-Studio (based on the LazY Puppy Web Version)

plus the original LazY Puppy - which is still my main and daily OS to work - by now, Version 3.0.0, 109 MB in Size, 338 SFS Files!

So, I don't worry about to have an comfortable OS for a daily use in the future. Since the invention and creation of LazY Puppy I really do feel like I would have upgraded my Computer-Work-Live to a Golden Master Card!

oui wrote:
to port it to other puppy's

Yes, that's the clue!

And by having a look at the downloads of SFS P.L.U.S. published in the Utilities forum, should make clear: there seems to be a need to have such functions in other puppies and also it seems to be a success!

8-bit mentioned on a simple version of a SFS P.L.U.S. RunScript which has been downloaded 139 times by now wrote:
So to me, you have a Pearl of a script there that should be very useful to anyone using it.

Yes, that's really true, of course! Very Happy

RSH

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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2146
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2013, 10:35    Post_subject:  

R-S-H wrote:
plus the original LazY Puppy - which is still my main and daily OS to work - by now, Version 3.0.0, 109 MB in Size, 338 SFS Files!



this seems to be very interesting. one of the smallest actual Puppy's with the proprieties of Lazy Puppy! Very good.
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4796
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Fri 03 May 2013, 18:35    Post_subject: Puppy power  

So, what is a "s-h-a-m-e"-titled post doing in Puppy Power section of the forum?

A few years ago, I was looking for a way to set Turkish locales in Puppy and PM'd a dev (a German-based) guru of the time about it. He did not reply, so I did a search here and found out that he has already posted about it.

Instead of talking about "s-h-a-m-e", could we not just discuss how this setting is done in other distros or puplets, so that we can have a mainstream solution?

Oui is an authority when it comes to using different languages, so not one to be a-s-h-a-m-e-d of. Smile

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