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The time now is Sun 20 Apr 2014, 01:34
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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge » Multi-session live-CD/DVD
Major advance in Bluray multisession effort.
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 13:23    Post subject:  

Tried tests most likely to fail and iso-level 4 change just throws more volume change warnings, but adding sessions over the DVD sized works. File size reporting looks correct, checking for large sized file truncation.
But so far no difference (slower boot possibly) using iso-level 4 over 3 except for warnings..
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 19:17    Post subject:  

Have not spotted any new issues using iso-level 4 over iso-level 3. Will burn some full sized BD-Rs since all tries with BD-RE did as well with iso-level 4. Very Happy
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10668
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 22:38    Post subject:  

Okay I downloaded Fatdog64-620, burned it onto a BD-RE with Burniso2cd and booted it with the first boot option (non-multisession). I see what you mean by the humongous initrd, it must have taken several minutes to load. Shocked But overall loading time doesn't seem to be much longer than it was for the multisession Slacko DVD I was using before.

I installed Flashblock because the ad in the upper right corner of the forum is so obnoxious. Other than that, Fatdog seems to be well-behaved.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue 30 Apr 2013, 08:34    Post subject:  

All tests with iso-level 4 have the same results as iso-level 3 (different WARNINGS, and ISO size shown, but no actual change in useable size.) So If iso-level 4 allows better compatibility with other O/Ss lets go with it.

Can't do any more testing until another 50 pkg of Bluray media is delivered.. Laughing

Will be working on identified growisofs issues, while I wait.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10668
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 30 Apr 2013, 08:50    Post subject:  

Ted, why don't you get one or two BD-RE disks for experimenting with? I got some Kodak ones from Fry's for about $4 each. They work fine with the burning applications in Puppy. They even have some kind of "hard coat" supposed to make them more scratch resistant.
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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5562
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 30 Apr 2013, 13:55    Post subject:  

I don't get all your talk, so let me ask...

As I understand it. setting isolevel to 4 (and removing -J) would improve the pBurn execution to be compatible with recent windows.

1.) Will it be compatible with windows 7/8 as well as XP?
2.) Are there any reasons for using isolevel 3?
3.) Does this allow burning files over 4Gb?
4.) If so, could this replace UDF?


Thank you
Sigmund

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue 30 Apr 2013, 20:08    Post subject:  

zigbert wrote:
I don't get all your talk, so let me ask...

As I understand it. setting isolevel to 4 (and removing -J) would improve the pBurn execution to be compatible with recent windows.

1.) Will it be compatible with windows 7/8 as well as XP?
2.) Are there any reasons for using isolevel 3?
3.) Does this allow burning files over 4Gb?
4.) If so, could this replace UDF?


Thank you
Sigmund

Yes to all.

Q#2 on isolevel 3, isolevel 3 relaxes just about everything on the standards.
isolevel 4 does not exist officially, The isolevel 4 is a command switch which writes a 'better version of iso-level 2' its the use of iso-level 2 that allows compatibility with most non-linux OSs.

UDF multisession is a no-go with linux tools, but running imgburn.exe with wine on linux can produce the levels of UDF needed for making BluRay video discs that play in the picky (PS3) bluray players.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue 30 Apr 2013, 20:18    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
Ted, why don't you get one or two BD-RE disks for experimenting with? I got some Kodak ones from Fry's for about $4 each. They work fine with the burning applications in Puppy. They even have some kind of "hard coat" supposed to make them more scratch resistant.


Oh I got those too, but progress on the testing of iso-level was well matched up with BD-RE and some BD-R needed to be used to finish up my 134 test cases... Laughing I did not try them all, 7 test cases are the most likely to fail. Also needed to backup a 400G HD and was running short. BD-RE takes about 30 mins longer than BD-R so for 'nearly full' disc tests, a few BD-R's are used. I get mine in bulk at 70cents each. (a G of storage for 3cents)
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10668
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 30 Apr 2013, 21:25    Post subject:  

Well come on, where do you get them so cheap?
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue 30 Apr 2013, 21:30    Post subject:  

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004DTVJG8/
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10668
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 30 Apr 2013, 23:53    Post subject:  

Oh no, I just discovered that Verbatim make a 7.5 GB mini BD-RE for $17 (each!) and a mini BD-R for $8.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Wed 01 May 2013, 01:37    Post subject:  

how about a tall stack of 50 mini's (DVDs)

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Duplicator-Grade-Silver-Spindle/dp/B0056BYHAM/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1

This is more temping... (plus I read online that someones wife made table lamps out of old cds.)

Rolling Eyes
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 1876
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2013, 12:18    Post subject:  

Thanks Ted Dog for the testing, and mainly for the great breakthrough! Very Happy

I looked at the source of cdrtools and confirm that -iso-level 4 actually enables large files too (and a bunch of other things - mostly iso-level 3 settings). The source is used in 620 is here: ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha/cdrtools-3.01a13.tar.bz2 - I forgot to upload it to /source/c, but I already did now.

Ted Dog wrote:
@jamesbond

Would you rewrite this line and the other to send warnings and error msgs to /tmp for debugging ms issues in the future.

Code:
   ! $GROWISOFS -root $archivepath "$SAVEFILE_MOUNT"/archive/* > /dev/null && save_ok=no   



code snippit from /usr/sbin/fatdog-save-multisession.sh

Yes, I will see what I can do.

Zigbert wrote:
I don't get all your talk, so let me ask...
Ted already answered this, but let me put it in a different way:

Quote:
As I understand it. setting isolevel to 4 (and removing -J) would improve the pBurn execution to be compatible with recent windows.

You either choose -iso-level 4 or -J (but not both). As Ted has stated, "-J" is a broken M$ extension (or abomination) of Rockridge. It is required for long filenames to be seen under Win95 and Win98 (perhaps Win2K too - didn't check, didn't test). Starting on Windows XP, Windows can also see long filenames written under ISO9660:1999 directory which is what -iso-level 4 uses. So effectively -iso-level 4 replaces -J unless you want to be downward compatible to Win95/98 (shudder!)

Quote:
1.) Will it be compatible with windows 7/8 as well as XP?
Yes on Win XP and Win7, doesn't own Win8 to test, but I don't see why not.
Quote:
2.) Are there any reasons for using isolevel 3?
Mainly to enable writing large files (file bigger than 4 GB), which iso-level 4 also does.
Quote:
3.) Does this allow burning files over 4Gb?
Yes, both iso-level 3 and iso-level 4 does
Quote:
4.) If so, could this replace UDF?
Yes and No. If you want to burn DVD Video (or probably Bluray video too) - you need UDF. If all you care is data, then yes.

UDF also supports multi-session, but as myself and Ted Dog painstakingly found, Linux tools don't support it.
When you try to write multisession to an UDF disc, strange things happen: if you mount the disc as "-t iso9660", you will see the files added in the new session. If you mount the disc as "-t udf", you will *NOT* see the new files.
So until this is fixed, use of UDF and multisession is an exclusive one - you choose one or another but not both.

Sigmund, of special note, all these experiments are done under cdrtools. I'm not sure how they fare under cdrkit, but according to Ted who has done a lot of test, cdrkit may not be up to task for this. I haven't done the test under cdrkit so I can't say but I'll side with Ted on this.

cheers!

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zigbert


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 5562
Location: Valåmoen, Norway

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2013, 14:15    Post subject:  

Thank you guys for all input.
I will let it all sink in for some time, to think it through before making an updated pBurn.

As I see it right now:
- Replace isolevel 3 with isolevel 4, and remove the Joilet options. Do we need the Rockridge ???? Remove udf as well.
- Keep isolevel 1 for backward compatibility
- Depend on cdrtools ONLY
- burning video, filesystem settings are not available for user, so not any issue with udf here...

This would make it all easier for the user (Less options).


Any opinions?
Sigmund

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 8557
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 04 May 2013, 15:48    Post subject:  

zigbert wrote:
Do we need the Rockridge ????

In my tests using "iso-level 4", I still need Rock Ridge to provide upper/lower case filenames, in Linux.

[Edit] Somehow, XP was able to see the full upper/lower case filenames. WITH iso-level 4 but WITHOUT Rock Ridge.

Last edited by rcrsn51 on Sat 04 May 2013, 18:06; edited 2 times in total
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