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Need on-screen keyboard with mouse functions
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2536
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Mon 25 Mar 2013, 21:26    Post subject:  

Hey -- help is what we're here for. That's the purpose of this forum. It's as close as you'll ever get to a Puppy call center Very Happy

[political]
Besides, what the government can't or won't do, the rest of us kinda have to pick up and deal with, instead. Especially when it's something that the government /should/ do. Even more so when it comes to things like a social safety net, that ensures that people like those you work with can get along OK in life, or that people like me don't go to bed hungry or homeless.
[/political]

_________________
Loving X-Slacko 1.1! Get the PetGet patch on pg8; it's important.
Next system will be an HP MOCA-AR + Core2Duo in an innovative case... if I ever get off my butt and build it Razz
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 764
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Mon 25 Mar 2013, 23:45    Post subject: Thank you standard7452  

Thank you, Will, for devoting yourself to the care of others, for having the good sense to use the only traits by which man actually distinguishes himself from other animals --the joint abilities to co-operate in the use of individual talents and the expectation that we will at least try. And thank you for giving us tinkerers something worth doing.

mikesLr
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 486
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 29 Mar 2013, 04:13    Post subject: Xvkb  

Greengeek/Mikeslr

A pet with a later version of Xvkbd (3.2) can be found here:
www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=72664&sid=54083ede9593fd7573d4a07ef936a699

The manual is located here:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/xvkbd/

It works well with Magoo (Netbook) V6, not requiring any extra libs. It is not clear from the manual, but in order to get the “Word Completion” feature working you do need to create the file /usr/share/dict/words AND to populate it.

Not documented is its ability to handle phrases by simply hyphenating words. Used so it is a fantastic feature. Try for example the following:
Code:
Ant
Antidisestablishmentarianism
Anti-matter
And-so-to-bed
Anti-aliasing
And-Then-There-Were-None

Link to word/phrase completion in action:
http://s21.postimg.org/z0f9yaytj/word_completion.png

_________________
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Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 764
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Fri 29 Mar 2013, 13:01    Post subject: Status Assessment and Wishlist: Assisting Disabled  

Hi All,

Word Completion:
From the manual there apparently is a module for the user to change the word completion dictionary from the default /usr/share/dict/ to something else. Someone (sorry, not me – my skills aren't adequate) should be able to co-opt a dictionary –say the one used by Abiword-- converting its format, if necessary, and include it by default in an xvkbd pet.

Word completion and automatic scrolling –preferably both-- may be essential in order for our solution to become bearable. I can see why Standard7452 suggested Onboard or GOK. Xvkbd can be set so that if the mouse is NOT moved for a specified period of time it will generate a keypress sending the “letter” on which the cursor then resides to the target application. But even with auto-keypress turned on, using the standard QWERTY keyboard it would require 13 physical presses of the “button” to type the word “geany” and 29 to type the word “leafpad.” I've been reworking the design of a keyboard based on letter frequency surrounding a central space bar based on a frequency analysis which came out of the Gutenberg Project, http://www.cryptograms.org/letter-frequencies.php, and the most common two letter words, http://scottbryce.com/cryptograms/stats.htm. The Gutenberg Project focused on letters. But a keyboard design must, among other things, consider SYMBOL frequency. The rule of thumb is that the average word-length in English is 5: which means 16.67 percent of keypresses will be of the spacebar. Ergo, the spacebar's central position. I've attached a preliminary draft of a modified keyboard which takes into consideration those factors. Even with it, typing “geany” would require 11 button presses; “leafpad” 16. Some button presses could be eliminated if four “return to center keys” could be (xdotools?) added; and, of course, the keyboard modified to take advantage of them.
Modification of the keyboard presents a problem (also) beyond my capabilities. Although Tom Sato built into xvkbd the ability of a user to assign functions to the F1 thru 12 function keys, Alt+ and Ctrl+, and a “meta” key, the keyboard, itself, is semi-”hardwired.” Sato has provided a number of keyboards that can be used instead of the default US-International. Among those keyboards are those which can be used by writers in Japanese, Korean, Hebrew and Russian. It appears that a user choosing a different keyboard would see a different set of key images, and that clicking on such key image would generate a keystroke sent to the target program and recorded there as the letter imaged on the alternate keyboard. These alternate keyboards are part of the application, and consist of what appears to be a module written in C –I'm guessing-- some executables (required by some languages other than English) and some files in plain text. My examination of these “text” files indicate that they all follow the same format. The Russian one specifically states it can be recoded to any other 8-bit Cyrillic encoding. Both it and the Hebrew one appear to contain directions as to what fonts are to be used.
I would be perfectly happy to recode the English file so as to take maximum advantage of letter usage frequency. But to do that I'd have to understand how each section of the “plain text” file is understood and used by the rest of the keyboard selection module.
Still, an auto-scrolling capability would be better; or, perhaps best yet, ETP's suggestion of webcam controlled mouse. The links ETP provided are to applications which run under Windows, including XP. I don't have a functioning webcam otherwise I'd test them under Wine. Can they be ported to Linux? If not, auto-scrolling becomes very important. Would it be possible to include in either NavBar or Radar6 a routine to automatically move the cursor if no button were pressed? [Of course, turning off xvkbd's auto-keypress]. The routine would read the mouse-cursor's current position, the direction it's currently set to move, wait a [preferably user-defined] period of time and then move in that direction. Some variation of the keyboard I originally proposed [with keys to chose among Move Mouse Menu and while Move (within Keyboard) was selected] boundaries set, the attempted “crossing” of which would return the cursor to the spacebar.

mikesLr

p.s. Beyond that my originally proposed keyboard assumed auto-scrolling, the attached keyboard differs because (a) the Gutenberg Project found a slight difference in letter frequency from Zim's analysis; and (b) more importantly, provided data about the frequency of letters with which words begin or end. The attached design places keys for those letters having a combined beginning and ending word frequency closest to the spacebar. Having more than one spacebar is unlikely to be productive as then the next lettter pressed after a spacebar press would likely be of a letter close to a different spacebar. Ergo, the idea for return-to-center-keys. If present, the keyboard layout could group letters with which words frequently end around such keys, and letters with which words begin around the spacebar.
Keyboard2.jpg
 Description   Tentative xvkbd Keyboard based on keypress frequency
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2090
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 29 Mar 2013, 14:47    Post subject: Re: Status Assessment and Wishlist: Assisting Disabled  

mikeslr wrote:
Would it be possible to include in either NavBar or Radar6 a routine to automatically move the cursor if no button were pressed?

Interesting idea. That might be a useful "backstop" in case the user is locked into a problem they can't clear, or has maybe lost sight of the cursor.

ETP wrote:
A pet with a later version of Xvkbd (3.2) can be found here:
www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=72664&sid=54083ede9593fd7573d4a07ef936a699
The manual is located here:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/xvkbd/

Thanks ETP. I have just trialled Precise 5.5 with your suggested xvkbd 3.2 and it seems to work well. I also trialled it with SFR's new version of radar and navbar and they look like a good combination

Precise 5.5 download here: http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/precise-5.5/precise-5.5.iso

(new versions of radar and navbar with enhanced visibilty attached)
radar-0.7+navbar-0.3.tar.gz
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xvkbd-3.2.pet
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Precise55+navbar3+xvkbd32_.png
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 486
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 29 Mar 2013, 17:51    Post subject: Assisting Disabled  

Mikeslr

Quote:
Word Completion:
From the manual there apparently is a module for the user to change the word completion dictionary from the default /usr/share/dict/ to something else. Someone (sorry, not me – my skills aren't adequate) should be able to co-opt a dictionary –say the one used by Abiword-- converting its format, if necessary, and include it by default in an xvkbd pet.


The “word” file is just a simple text file, but rather than containing an imported dictionary it needs to contain the most frequently used words in excess of 3 characters plus frequently used combinations of words such as “what-time-is-breakfast”. Spelling is not important, it is a question of reducing the number of physical presses of the “button” to type a word or common phrase. As you quite rightly point out it is tedious in the extreme for “Leafpad” to require 29 presses!
Your work on keyboard layout is vital, as no matter what method is used to navigate you cannot get away from the need to input text.

Greengeek

Can I ask that you download the MK-129 pet from my server and test it in Precise 5.5? (The copy on the forum was corrupt)

Webcam Control

I am continuing to work with Magoo V6 and have found a combination of wine and .net that launches CameraMouse-2011. (See pic) I also managed today to get Guvcview 1.5.3 working on a borrowed netbook. It is now a matter of my buying a proper USB cam to see whether Wine and CameraMouse will work with it. CameraMouse-2013 worked superbly on the netbook with Windows 7. It requires .net 3.5 however which did not work with it in linux.
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image-2.png


_________________
Regards ETP
Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 764
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Fri 29 Mar 2013, 20:50    Post subject: Abiword & Arthra -- Wordprocess, Dictionary & Thesaurus  

Hi All,

I've just started exploring ETP's Magoo Pup. Nice. I haven't as yet installed xvkbd, Nav or Radar but unless they create conflicts, I am no longer concerned about finding a mouseless wordprocessor and less concerned about generating a dictionary for xvkbd. Once launched from Magoo's Pad, Abiword can --as far as I tested-- be run entirely mouseless. It includes its own spell-check dictionary.
If there is a need for something greater, some time ago sikpuppy created a pet of Arthra which includes Wordweb and functions even when off-line. It's still available from here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=361204#361204. I have used that version without a problem in every puppy I've explored (Slackos, Exprimos, Lupus, Precieses) since and it works fine in Magoo. [A version is available via PPM in Saluki and Carolina]. Just a couple of notes about it, not really any complaints: After starting Arthra the first time it stays resident after it's closed leaving an icon on the taskbar. It can be called by clicking that icon or by pressing Ctrl-Alt-w. Not sure if that can be reassigned, but if not it should not be run with Opera, or Opera's Hot-keys should be reassigned. Opera thinks that means "Close this Tab" as I can attest having to type this for the second time. In Abiword, you can use Ctrl-f to find a word (or part of a word) or if already found, Shift-directional-keys to select it. Ctrl-c copies it to the clipboard. Thereafter pressing Ctrl-Alt-w reopens Arthra which provides synonyms and words associated with the selected word.
Although the advice on the Artha link above suggest some modification of Seamonkey may be required (and tells how) I've never had to do that.
I strongly recommend that sikpuppy's pet be mirrored somewhere.

mikesLr

Last edited by mikeslr on Sat 30 Mar 2013, 10:59; edited 1 time in total
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 486
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 30 Mar 2013, 10:12    Post subject: More Thoughts  

Hi All,

I am rapidly coming to the belief that this project will merit the production of a dedicated pup with its own name to distinguish it from the 1300 odd others that exist.
Testing and the target hardware should reveal upon which core pup it should be based.

Will:
Can you give us some idea of the type and specification of the hardware that is likely to be used including if possible, the likely monitor sizes and resolutions?

With regard to a name (If you all agree) I will kick things off by suggesting a few. I propose however that the final choice of name should be made by Will and his friends.
    Accessibility Pup.
    Assistentia Pup.
    Assistive Pup.
    Pup Assist.

Should Will opt for something like “Klingon Pup” that would be fine – their choice. Laughing

Edit- other suggestions some by pm:
AxS Pup. Jasper
Service Puppy. Ted Dog
Assist Puppy. Ted Dog
Service puppy. Ted Dog
Puppy with a stick. Ted Dog
Radar puppy. Ted Dog
Assistance Puppy. mikeslr
St. Bernard Puppy. mikeslr
Labrador Puppy. mikeslr
The Pup With No Name. ETP

_________________
Regards ETP
Accessibility Pups: -- Magoo -- The Pup With No Name -- MouseCam -- Obedient

Last edited by ETP on Mon 01 Apr 2013, 03:22; edited 1 time in total
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2090
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 01:28    Post subject:  

I was thinking about the idea of making a .pet of radar, navbar and xvkbd and calling it "ParaPet"

(I don't know how to make a .pet yet tho'....)

(and in any case maybe paraplegics need such functionality less than quadraplegics would... I guess I don't really know )
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2090
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 04:29    Post subject: Re: Assisting Disabled  

ETP wrote:
Can I ask that you download the MK-129 pet from my server and test it in Precise 5.5? (The copy on the forum was corrupt)

Hi ETP, I just gave it a quick trial on my 1024x768 Toshiba laptop and found that it somehow took away the ability for radar to stay on top of other windows. I have no idea why this is happening though. (I didn't have this problem when previously testing radar on Magoo netbook version). If I get a chance I will do some more indepth testing, but I'm getting limited computer time at the moment.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2090
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 05:49    Post subject:  

SFR has kindly made some further adjustments to radar and navbar to make it possible to alter the transition speed from "choose action" to "choose direction". (EDIT : What I actually meant is that there is now an adjustable delay when displaying the first choice of each menu - allowing the eye more time to adjust before cycling through the rest of the choices).

Also - the new navbar allows a choice of 8 direction arrows (as per original) or 4 arrows (ie: no diagonal arrows). Some users may prefer the simpler visual appearance of the 4 arrow version.
(see attached new versions)

I have trialled this new adjustability within navbar and think it may suit some users to have slower transition settings and also the 4 arrow display, which I find easier on the eyes especially when tired or distracted. It might suit users who need more time to make their choices or to switch their vision from the work window to the navbar window.
My preferred settings to get this slower behaviour would be:
Code:
ROLL_DELAY=1.0              # Delay for direction/action
FIRST_POS_DELAY=1.0         # Extra delay for first direction/action (0 = none)   # (it will be accumulated with ROLL_DELAY)

and...

ARROWS=4               # Amount of 'arrows': 4 (↑→↓←) or 8 (↑↗→↘↓↙←↖)
radar-0.8+navbar-0.4.tar.gz
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Last edited by greengeek on Sun 31 Mar 2013, 14:12; edited 1 time in total
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 11:30    Post subject: Re: More Thoughts  

ETP wrote:
Hi All,

I am rapidly coming to the belief that this project will merit the production of a dedicated pup with its own name to distinguish it from the 1300 odd others that exist.
Testing and the target hardware should reveal upon which core pup it should be based.

Will:
Can you give us some idea of the type and specification of the hardware that is likely to be used including if possible, the likely monitor sizes and resolutions?

With regard to a name (If you all agree) I will kick things off by suggesting a few. I propose however that the final choice of name should be made by Will and his friends.
    Accessibility Pup.
    Assistentia Pup.
    Assistive Pup.
    Pup Assist.

Should Will opt for something like “Klingon Pup” that would be fine – their choice. Laughing

Edit- suggestions received by pm:
AxS Pup Jasper


Service Puppy or Assist Puppy or puppy with a stick, radar puppy (I like the radar version, to bad we can't hover it with a see thro background.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 764
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 12:11    Post subject: Pets and Pups  

Hi All, Hi greengeek,

For testing whether a combinations pets conflict with each other, or anything else on the system, it's best to first create an SFS. Pets override libraries, and their removal doesn't re-install an over-written library. If there's a problem, you have to start with a new SaveFile and rebuilt your system. SFSes only establish priority of libraries in the "merged/layered" file system. Unloading an SFS eliminates any conflict. Consequently, for testing I recommend you use RHS's PaDS, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=81511&sid=45284380b8aa384ba4d3157ea00e07ce. It's an easy to use GUI.
Once you're certain their isn't a conflict, you could use petmaker, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=290171 or sfs2pet, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=81316&sid=e19e12183393978d6817505c0a80f0e0. I've never used sfs2pet. What I do is create a directory with the name of the pet. Then I mount the SFS (Right-Click) the SFS and select view. SHOW Hidden files to make certain nothing is missed, and then drag-and-drop all files into your pet folder. Unmount the SFS. Move up one level so that your folder appears as a folder. Open a terminal and type dir2pet. A GUI will walk you thru pet creation.
The above works unless you're creating a pet from scratch: that is including file (configs, libs, etc.) which weren't already included in a pet or SFS. In that case, petmaker should work. But test the pet on a clean SaveFile. I recall some reports of problems. Best to create pets manually once you familiarize yourself with linux file structure. Takes longer, but is safer.
Regarding a dedicated pup: I agree with ETP. Eventually we should put together one so that anyone can have an "assistance Puppy" OOTB, with onscreen keyboard & navigation running on bootup. St. Bernard? Labrador? Recommend based on Slacko, if possible. Although I generally prefer Ubuntu builds --I think I understand them better-- Slackware with its more conservative approach may be better for older hardware. And I think we'd want the system to be able to run on inexpensive (=old) laptops. Alternatively, one of the Long-Term-Support Ubuntus. But I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. Too many pieces of the puzzle yet unsolved.

mikesLr

Last edited by mikeslr on Sun 31 Mar 2013, 14:09; edited 1 time in total
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2052
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 13:00    Post subject:  

We should base it on a woof default build and NOT a offshoot of another distro. The reason is these functions are small in size or would be when complete and if mainlined into standard build methods require very little maintenance ongoing.

Quirky
Wary
Racy

I choose Wary since its for older hardware.

However initially I think a Magoo build makes the most logical choice to introduce it as a ready to go radar Wink puppy. With better hosting needed.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2536
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 13:40    Post subject:  

Wary's pretty stable stuff, and runs on just about anything. It gets my vote as well.
_________________
Loving X-Slacko 1.1! Get the PetGet patch on pg8; it's important.
Next system will be an HP MOCA-AR + Core2Duo in an innovative case... if I ever get off my butt and build it Razz
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