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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
LazY Puppy 2.0.2 Final - a Paradise Puppy
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Tue 12 Mar 2013, 16:20    Post subject:  

Quote:
I stumbled onto this.
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=83675

Yes, me too. I've been working on this for weeks and did made my first post over there on Sat 02 Mar 2013, 06:42.

Quote:
I was wondering what you all think.

After working on this I stepped into some strange issues I couldn't explain to my self. I was a bit helpless and ready to give up.

But, by now, thanks to the long support from mavrothal, this seems to be solved. I'm currently running LazY Puppy 3.0.0 with adrv and ddrv option added. I've loaded sfs files up to pup_ro35 and everything is working fine.

When pupblishing LazY Puppy 3 it will have several "adrv" options - currently there are defined the following options (planning status, could change though):

DISTRO_ADRVSFS='LP2_Applications.sfs'
DISTRO_DDRVSFS='LP2_Data.sfs'
DISTRO_FDRVSFS='LP2_Fonts.sfs'
DISTRO_GDRVSFS='LP2_Guides.sfs'
DISTRO_LDRVSFS='LP2_Language.sfs'
DISTRO_MDRVSFS='LP2_Music.sfs'
DISTRO_RDRVSFS='LP2_RunScripts.sfs'
DISTRO_WDRVSFS='LP2_WindowManagers.sfs'
DISTRO_XDRVSFS='LP2_Xtra.sfs'

DISTRO_ADRVSFS and DISTRO_DDRVSF currently working and running - the rest is just TODO!

DISTRO_ZDRVSFS will stay as the LazY Puppy Extension SFS which is currently named: RSHsLP3_Extension.sfs.

Quote:
...Anyway about the easy updater. When the new Lazy Puppy 3 is finished, will the easy updater be able to update to it?

You mean if it could update 2.0.2-005 to 3.0.0? No!

The Easy Online Updater will only provide updates and fixes of installed applications for the latest available LazY Puppy. It could not update changes made in initrd.gz - and there are a lot by now. Beside the "adrv" options LazY Puppy 3 can boot directly into a specific user mode (from boot menu entry in menu.lst) and can also load the new Personal Data SFS which is also a very special new addition to LazY Puppy. I did "invent" this but mavrothal did inform me that there is something similar or equal used in Tiny Core (what I didn't know at this time).

This all can surely not be done via updating LazY Puppy using the Easy Online Updater. Maybe a real professional programmer could do such things - or better saying surely can do this. But currently not me, sorry.

More Information on all of this later.

RSH

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Gnuxo

Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Tue 12 Mar 2013, 18:01    Post subject:  

Oh...

What version of puppy will 3.0 be based on?

I found that my graphics card will only work with ati catalyst 10.10 and kernel 3.7 and AMD no longer support it.

Crying or Very sad

Do you have any ways that I can continue to get the best out of my system?

Lazypuppy is currently my puppy of choice, and I run a 64 bit system. Smile
It works better then most big 64 bit non-pae Operating systems.
...And that's Lazy Puppy 2.0. Wink
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Tue 12 Mar 2013, 19:18    Post subject:  

Quote:
Oh...

What version of puppy will 3.0 be based on?

It will be still based on Lucid Puppy 5.2.8-4. Each version of LazY Puppy will be a further step in development, but never based on another distro!

If you want to try a LazY Puppy based on another distro, go try the VSP Puppy - currently only a 3HD based version is available. This has some features of LazY Puppy like the SFS P.L.U.S. but doesn't come really close to LazY Puppy... Laughing

Quote:
Lazypuppy is currently my puppy of choice, and I run a 64 bit system. Smile
It works better then most big 64 bit non-pae Operating systems.
...And that's Lazy Puppy 2.0. Wink

Oh, really? That's fine! Thank you.

Quote:
Do you have any ways that I can continue to get the best out of my system?

Will this still be a question if LazY Puppy will be based only on Lucid Puppy 5.2.8-4?

Greetings,

RSH

P.S.

Are you using a save file or don't you?

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Gnuxo

Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Tue 12 Mar 2013, 19:49    Post subject:  

I guess if it's still based on the same lucid pup, then I don't have much to worry about. Very Happy

Regardless though, it's still one of my favorite OSes.
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Tue 12 Mar 2013, 20:51    Post subject:  

Yeah, I don't want to make the whole work done on LazY Puppy again and again on new distros. And if I would have to change it later, I do try to make LazY Puppy features ready for use after installing in another distro.

The 3HD VSP Puppy is a first step - currently installing 8 PETs doing 7 manually steps and ready is the VSP Puppy ! But surely can be refined though.

However: LazY Puppy will be LazY Puppy based on Lucid 5.2.8-004.

But, PLEASE, let me know: are you using a save file or don't you?

RSH

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Gnuxo

Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2013, 03:08    Post subject:  

Do you think newer programs will ever work in Lazy?
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Gnuxo

Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2013, 03:36    Post subject:  

Can I ask for some help?

I'm not sure where to ask. I'm in Lazy Puppy and I am trying to compile the newest Qupzilla.

I loaded Pemasu's newest QT.dev.sfs

...I also loaded Devx.

But when I try Qmake I get this error.

Quote:
QMAKESPEC has not been set, so configuration cannot be deduced.


I don't know where Qmakespec is. Or how to change it...
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2013, 05:30    Post subject:  

Gnuxo wrote:
Do you think newer programs will ever work in Lazy?

No, surely not. It depends on the kernel which is 2.6.33.2 in LazY Puppy. If you want to run newer programs and also want to have some comfort like LazY Puppy is offering, try the 3HD VSP Puppy. Its kernel is 2.6.37.6, some newer programs might run. LP2_Opensshot131.sfs for example does not work in 3HD VSP Puppy, because of the newer kernel.

Gnuxo wrote:
Can I ask for some help?

I'm not sure where to ask. I'm in Lazy Puppy and I am trying to compile the newest Qupzilla.

I loaded Pemasu's newest QT.dev.sfs

...I also loaded Devx.

But when I try Qmake I get this error.

Quote:
QMAKESPEC has not been set, so configuration cannot be deduced.


I don't know where Qmakespec is. Or how to change it...

I have tried different things using QT sfs files from pemasu and did get some of these things to work (after hours of testings). But this is surely because of my special version of LazY Puppy which has a lot of stuff excluded like the qt3, sqlite and other things.

LazY Puppy Web Version still has installed all this and therefor I think QT has to be installed because there is something related to ldd.conf which I do not know exactly. I know this from German user der-schutzhund, who has done/tried such modifications for the use of a newer version of QT in his LazY Puppy Derivative (iirc: qt-3.3.8 instead of qt-3.3.4 which is installed in LazY Puppy).

I'm really not experienced in compiling, two or three successful times, so all I can do is to wish you good luck!

And I would recommend: create a new save file (if using one) and use this for installing the newest QT and compiling the Qupzilla!

---

I got some success in progress of LazY Puppy and the so called adrv-option, which I will post later. First I have to do some screenshots - it's really amazing.

Ok, again my question: are you using a save file?

RSH

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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2013, 09:48    Post subject: LazY Puppy 3.0.0 and the new adrv option
Subject description: Development Information
 

Hi.

Here's just some information about progress in development of LazY Puppy 3 with adrv option added.

I'm running LazY Puppy 3 now for a few days several hours a day using the new adrv option (thanks to mavrothal) activated in LazY Puppy.

But, as always, I do use this in excess, because LazY Puppy is a SFS Puppy. And if this wouldn't be enough, I do use this on a slightly different way: I can control the adrv option from boot menu entries in menu.lst - so, I can boot LazY Puppy 3 without any adrv (yes, there are several), with all added or with just a small selection of the adrv files.

Ok, here is the current setup of the LazY Puppy adrv option

ADRVSFS = LP2_Applications.sfs
BDRVSFS = LP2_Backgrounds.sfs
CDRVSFS =
DDRVSFS = LP2_Data.sfs
EDRVSFS =
FDRVSFS = LP2_Fonts.sfs
GDRVSFS = LP2_Guides.sfs
HDRVSFS =
IDRVSFS =
JDRVSFS =
KDRVSFS =
LDRVSFS = LP2_Languages.sfs
MDRVSFS =
NDRVSFS =
ODRVSFS =
PDRVSFS = LP2_Programming.sfs
QDRVSFS =
RDRVSFS = LP2_RunScripts.sfs
SDRVSFS =
TDRVSFS =
UDRVSFS =
VDRVSFS =
WDRVSFS = LP2_WindowManagers.sfs
XDRVSFS = LP2_XorgHigh.sfs
YDRVSFS =

YES! They are all available and usable: from A to Y (but currently only the filled ones are tested and also currently running) ! ! !

In front of this but thought as an addition I have also invented the LazY Puppy Personal Data SFS (but mavrothal informed me that there's something similar used in Tiny Core, which I did not know at this time). The Personal Data SFS can be loaded at boot up (also a boot menu option) and saved at shut down (selectable in shutdown GUI). Files can easily added to or removed from the Personal Data SFS by right-click-action - everything is temporarily until it would be saved!!!

Ok, now something to see, to look at, to make big eyes!

LazY Puppy 3 default desktop, no extra drvsfs loaded (103 MB the SFS)


LazY Puppy 3 default desktop, all current available extra drvsfs loaded (FbPanel shows it)


LazY Puppy 3 BDRV = LP2_Backgrounds.sfs - Wallpapers from Openbox menu


LazY Puppy 3 FDRV = LP2_Fonts.sfs - 1092 TTF Fonts


LazY Puppy 3 RDRV = LP2_RunScripts.sfs - 339 RunScripts


LazY Puppy 3 Mount Points in /initrd and list of loaded SFS files in Openbox menu (in alphabetical order, can be directly unloaded from the menu entry)


LazY Puppy 3 Portable Linux and Windows (Wine) Programs stored on USB Flash Drive executable from Openbox menu


All Wallpapers in the images are switched via Openbox menu!

Ok, some more facts:

So, 25 extra drvsfs mount points plus the new Personal Data SFS is really a huge step forward for LazY Puppy (yes, a logical step as well) and after adding all needed code to init in initrd.gz and also sfs_load I did get in trouble...

...from over where in the hell should I take 25 different sfs files (also different from all my other sfs files (currently 344)), to do some tests on all of this - so, by now just the ones are filled in at above list are tested (but the code is checked twice). Almost speechless about having now such new options and possibilities I did decide to make one more huge step forward...

...backward...

...no, forward...

...no, backward-forward...

Yes, backward-forward!

Tomorrow I will kick LazY Puppy back to the real beginning of Puppy Linux and because of this will be a huge step backward, this will also be a huge step forward:

Tomorrow I will REMOVE ANY CODE FROM INIT and RC.SHUTDOWN (no, I'm not screaming, just want to make it absolutely clear) that is used to create and/or save a save file (in rc.shutdown) or (in init) able to load any save file ! ! !

LazY Puppy 3.0.0 will be then a VarioMenu-SFS-P.L.U.S.-no-save-file Puppy - preferred for the use from

- USB Flash drive
- USB HD drive
- internal IDE HD drive

I think that's all for now...

From now on each and every day is a good day to grab and maybe keep the stuff from LazY Puppy 2.0.2-005 - because of all the above... Laughing

Have fun with LazY Puppy...

RSH

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Last edited by R-S-H on Fri 15 Mar 2013, 09:11; edited 1 time in total
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Gnuxo

Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 365

PostPosted: Thu 14 Mar 2013, 12:30    Post subject:  

That all sounds interesting and scary at the same time. Shocked

So we won't be able to save anymore? How will we retain settings?
While it's true that when I load and unload firefox.sfs, I keep settings but that's only because the save file makes a record of the settings in /root

Without a save file, I won't have any saved settings for Firefox or other applications.

Without a save file, Lazy puppy almost doesn't seem like a puppy anymore.
*Maybe because I haven't been around since the beginning*

...And maybe I'm just so used to it. And I'm also worried about grub.

I have a few puppies added to grub manually, And if there is a large entry to get lazy 3 to load all the adrv files then I don't know if I'll just be able to do it manually anymore.

And I don't want any of the other puppies in grub to be effected.

Have you thought about solutions to problems like that in the development of this?
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Fri 15 Mar 2013, 09:03    Post subject:  

Quote:
That all sounds interesting and scary at the same time.

No need to be scared.

Quote:
So we won't be able to save anymore? How will we retain settings?

Quote:
Without a save file, I won't have any saved settings for Firefox or other applications.

One then can just do a right-click on Files or Directories to mark them to be added to the Personal Data SFS and it will be saved at shut down (Option in Shutdown GUI).

Quote:
Without a save file, Lazy puppy almost doesn't seem like a puppy anymore.
*Maybe because I haven't been around since the beginning*

As far as I know Puppy did not have the save file in the beginning of Puppy Linux. The NEW save file in LazY Puppy 3 is the Personal Data SFS.

Ok, let's assume LazY Puppy is installed on HD and a save file is used. If somethings going wrong it is always been saved (Terminal Message: Top mounted layer, always saved (or similar) at shutdown). This could never happen to the Personal Data SFS, because the User chooses either to save or not to save at shutdown. Everything done on the files in between is temporarily until it is been saved manually or at shut down.

As it is in LazY Puppy 2.0.2-005, there will be a list with predefined boot menu entries for grub4dos (and maybe grub). One just needs to copy and paste!

Quote:
And I don't want any of the other puppies in grub to be effected.

This should never happen!

Quote:
Have you thought about solutions to problems like that in the development of this?

Usually I don't use other Puppies except for some testings when publishing programs for other puppies. So, there are two or three installed on my HD drive and whatever I've done in the past, it did never ever had any effect to any other OS on the HD drive.

Everything is fine by now!

Also, at the moment there is LazY Puppy 2.0.2-005 and this will stay for a longer time. Currently publishing LazY Puppy 3 is far beyond the horizon.

So, no need to worry and/or to get in panic... Laughing

RSH

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Gnuxo

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Mar 2013, 17:14    Post subject:  

I see.

...One thing I'm surprised about is that I've always thought that .sfs files were read only. For an .SFS to be an effective save medium, it would need to be written to.

Though I understand about the awkwardness of saving regularly. if I install something by accident or screw up, all those screw ups are saved.

I always wanted a way to choose when to save or not. It would have given me more control. In fact I brought that up in feature requests a while back and I was criticized for mentioning it.

People said that such an option wouldn't be user friendly for newbies.

I think it would be safe for newbies. It would make things idiot proof.
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Fri 15 Mar 2013, 19:57    Post subject:  

Quote:
One thing I'm surprised about is that I've always thought that .sfs files were read only. For an .SFS to be an effective save medium, it would need to be written to.

Exactly.

What I do is to mount the SFS after X Desktop is loaded, copying the files into the OS and then again unmounting the SFS. So, all files are on top inside the OS and save inside the SFS which is unmounted for the rest of the working time.

When manually saved or automatically saved at shut down, the existing one is renamed (-bak) before saving anything to the new Personal Data SFS.

Quote:
I always wanted a way to choose when to save or not. It would have given me more control. In fact I brought that up in feature requests a while back and I was criticized for mentioning it.

People said that such an option wouldn't be user friendly for newbies.

I think it would be safe for newbies. It would make things idiot proof.

What version of LazY Puppy are you using?

LazY Puppy has already such function, but this works only if installed on and running from usb flash. Automatic save interval is canceled and from the menu in shutdown-GUI one can directly choose to shut down either to save or not to save the save file!

I can't remember if this was already in LazY Puppy 5.2.8-4 but surely in LazY Puppy 2 - the release with the new menu suite.

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Gnuxo

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Mar 2013, 22:28    Post subject:  

Wow! That's interesting.

Though that means that after using 3.0 five or six times, there would five or six backup .sfs in the frugal directory.

Those would have to be cleared out manually before they start to clutter the partition outside the frugal install.

...Did I understand that correctly? Or would there only be one .bak as the new backup would overwrite the last?

I'd also like to know what effect the loading and unloading of the personal data .sfs has on performance. As you add more settings and programs, would the puppy slow down more then usual?


Currently I'm using the newest Lazy Puppy final build 05.
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R-S-H

Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 490

PostPosted: Fri 15 Mar 2013, 23:33    Post subject:  

Quote:
Though that means that after using 3.0 five or six times, there would five or six backup .sfs in the frugal directory.

No.

Quote:
Or would there only be one .bak as the new backup would overwrite the last?

Exactly.

Quote:
I'd also like to know what effect the loading and unloading of the personal data .sfs has on performance. As you add more settings and programs, would the puppy slow down more then usual?

By now I've only tested with small files.

Everything happens after X is loaded, so booting will be as fast as always. Surely the content of a Personal Data SFS in 100 or 200 MB size will take longer to be copied into the OS as some in KB or less MB sizes.

Mounting the SFS is mostly done in two or three seconds - even big ones. I know this, because I do use SFS files from 8 KB sizes up to 300 MB and more.

For the result of the copy action I need to do some tests - later in the future.

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